My position has changed - I like Bowles as DC . He’s held the team together, through some tough times, but he can’t fix some recurring issues.
The clock management issues, the complete trust in a defense that can’t rent a stop, the decision to kick a FG when a TD could have sealed it - or lost it while trying to WIN. I’ve become convinced that Todd Bowles is either deluded into thinking he’s got a defense, or that he’s coaching not to lose, rather than trying to win.
I agree with the idea that he was restricted with acquiring defensive talent due to cap issues, but then there’s all key defensive draft picks that flopped or (after years on the roster) still aren’t living up to pre-draft expectations.
4 trips to the playoffs and 1 Super Bowl (under Arians & Brady) & 1 postseason win last season. Despite two hot OC’s, the last of which produced record performance.
Unfortunately, we should all be ready for a change at the top.
@white-tiger agree on this...As has been mentioned ad-nauseum Coen needs to stay one way or another....he is the second best OC this team has ever had(just behind Arians).. Koetter and Gruden to me are 3a. 3.b not necessarily in that order...I'd like to see what Coen can do in his second year as a play caller, but if it comes down to it it's gotta be Coen that stays no matter what. We can get a defensive coordinator that can work with the group we have especially adding more talent via the draft and FA and be above average/very good....a OC that can average near 30 ppg are a lot more difficult to come by. Coen is 39 and adaptable, Bowles is 61 and slow(stubborn) to adapt and make changes be it personnel or scheme.. In a world where Coen did become HC next year i wish/hope there was a way where Bowles would fall in more of a "mentor" role helping Coen navigate the nuance of the position or alternately slide into a dedicated DC role but have an open door to help Coen if he needed advice which I realize would be unprecedented.. I do feel like Bowles can still be beneficial to this team in some ways, those just don't include being HC and sadly I'm not sure his ego or stubborn-ness would allow himself to accept that.
My position has changed
This isn’t something most people can admit. Kudos and credit to you.
a OC that can average near 30 ppg are a lot more difficult to come by.
Agree
will be interested to see what Coen does next year, hopefully with us
He’s held the team together, through some tough times, but he can’t fix some recurring issues.
They fired Dungy with a similar line of thought so we will see. The playoff loss opens the door.
so you guys are talking about Bowles generally, like above, and I have been talking about the game. Thats th first disconnect.The thread is the game thread so thats why I was focused on that.
I get that you’re talking about the game and not the season/Bowles in general, but they’re linked.
And, yes, the “loser mentality” absolutely exists with Todd. You’re perfectly within your right to disagree, as you already have.
But, we’ve seen it play out with him for 3 years now.
He doesn’t have a killer instinct. He doesn’t coach to win, he coaches not to lose.
Given the chance for a potential kill shot, he opted to put the fate of the season in the hands of his defense…the unit that hadn’t forced a punt all night.
He doesn’t have a killer instinct. He doesn’t coach to win, he coaches not to lose.
Bingo. He coaches in hopes his defense can force OT.
You can't make excuses for him with the injuries but then give him a pass for running the defense out there.
so you guys are talking about Bowles generally, like above, and I have been talking about the game. Thats th first disconnect.The thread is the game thread so thats why I was focused on that.
I get that you’re talking about the game and not the season/Bowles in general, but they’re linked.
And, yes, the “loser mentality” absolutely exists with Todd. You’re perfectly within your right to disagree, as you already have.
But, we’ve seen it play out with him for 3 years now.
He doesn’t have a killer instinct. He doesn’t coach to win, he coaches not to lose.
Given the chance for a potential kill shot, he opted to put the fate of the season in the hands of his defense…the unit that hadn’t forced a punt all night.
just a different way to think of it …
mathematically it makes sense to take the three there even if it did not work out that way. A 60% chance of having a 3% improvement in outcome versus multiple opportunities to get a stop with a defense that successfully made two stands. Or even a miss. Their kicker hit the upright.
in other words there is a non “loser mentality” explanation
by the way, if Bowles has a loser mentality, plays not to lose and “no killer instinct” then why the cover 0 blitz against the Rams? Why blitz at all? Play Kiffin cover 2? Monte didn’t have a loser mentality.
so you guys are talking about Bowles generally, like above, and I have been talking about the game. Thats th first disconnect.The thread is the game thread so thats why I was focused on that.
I get that you’re talking about the game and not the season/Bowles in general, but they’re linked.
And, yes, the “loser mentality” absolutely exists with Todd. You’re perfectly within your right to disagree, as you already have.
But, we’ve seen it play out with him for 3 years now.
He doesn’t have a killer instinct. He doesn’t coach to win, he coaches not to lose.
Given the chance for a potential kill shot, he opted to put the fate of the season in the hands of his defense…the unit that hadn’t forced a punt all night.
just a different way to think of it …
mathematically it makes sense to take the three there even if it did not work out that way. A 60% chance of having a 3% improvement in outcome versus multiple opportunities to get a stop with a defense that successfully made two stands. Or even a miss. Their kicker hit the upright.
in other words there is a non “loser mentality” explanation
by the way, if Bowles has a loser mentality, plays not to lose and “no killer instinct” then why the cover 0 blitz against the Rams? Why blitz at all? Play Kiffin cover 2? Monte didn’t have a loser mentality.
We’ll simply agree to disagree.
Not sure how anyone, especially after this season, can say Bowles doesn’t have a “loser” mentality.
so you guys are talking about Bowles generally, like above, and I have been talking about the game. Thats th first disconnect.The thread is the game thread so thats why I was focused on that.
I get that you’re talking about the game and not the season/Bowles in general, but they’re linked.
And, yes, the “loser mentality” absolutely exists with Todd. You’re perfectly within your right to disagree, as you already have.
But, we’ve seen it play out with him for 3 years now.
He doesn’t have a killer instinct. He doesn’t coach to win, he coaches not to lose.
Given the chance for a potential kill shot, he opted to put the fate of the season in the hands of his defense…the unit that hadn’t forced a punt all night.
just a different way to think of it …
mathematically it makes sense to take the three there even if it did not work out that way. A 60% chance of having a 3% improvement in outcome versus multiple opportunities to get a stop with a defense that successfully made two stands. Or even a miss. Their kicker hit the upright.
in other words there is a non “loser mentality” explanation
by the way, if Bowles has a loser mentality, plays not to lose and “no killer instinct” then why the cover 0 blitz against the Rams? Why blitz at all? Play Kiffin cover 2? Monte didn’t have a loser mentality.
I recall reading that Matthew Stafford statistically is one of the best QBs in the NFL vs an all-out blitz. He proved that with the dagger play to Kupp vs Bowles defense. Bowles should have known that the risk was extremely high by calling that defense in that situation. It was the wrong kind of aggressiveness. There were several instances during this past season where the Bucs could have been more aggressive on offense and won some of those close games.
Anyone who is supporting Bowles at this juncture is just settling for more mediocrity. 8-9. 9-8. 10-7. The Bucs will have a first place schedule again during 2025. They will need to spend the offseason figuring out how to win the close games. Being conservative and depending on the weak link of the team to not lose games is surely the path to mediocrity. And it will be more of the same if Bowles is retained as HC.
This team is not winning a Super Bowl with Todd Bowles. He is not a good head coach.
BUT...they gave the guy the job back in 2022, had a shit 2022 year but seen nothing but progress in 2023 and 2024, both years in which if you asked post Tom Brady that we'd still be a playoff team, every single one of us would have taken that offer. So for that reason, the guy isn't losing his job despite being a mediocre at best head coach. Guy will never crack the top 10.
Fact of the matter is, this team lacks the talent needed to win a Superbowl as well. Hopefully they address the lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball this offseason.
Coen is a bit green and how many times have we seen a top coordinator flame out with new team. Best case would be for Coen to continue to mature to potentially be the successor in 2026.
this next year will be make or break for Bowles. Another 10 win or less playoff season, first round exit and Bowles is most certainly gone. This would assume they addressed the needs on the team with the increased cap space.
Anyone who is supporting Bowles at this juncture is just settling for more mediocrity. 8-9. 9-8. 10-7.
to be clear I am not supporting Bowles.
I am just saying that change often unravels things (Gruden to Bucs being rare exception) and if you look at where the Bucs are right now they only need a very marginal improvement in defense to be a contender. And, if you just look at all the 2025 posts here now lol, they are all about ADDING defeneive players through FA and the draft . . two things NOT done last year.
So, all of that is to say that a BOWLES DEFENSE won a Super Bowl only a few years ago and in NOTABLE FASHION and with an offense that is similar in out put to this one. That Super Bowl winning defense had much better talent but still only 3 ppg better in scoring
This is why I have said that IF Coen is willing to stay on they very likely stay with Bowles EVEN though the defense was a BIG problem this year.
Bad coaches tend to be aggressive when they should be conservative and vice versa.
It's why Bowles is so maddening.
Anyone who is supporting Bowles at this juncture is just settling for more mediocrity. 8-9. 9-8. 10-7.
to be clear I am not supporting Bowles.
I am just saying that change often unravels things (Gruden to Bucs being rare exception) and if you look at where the Bucs are right now they only need a very marginal improvement in defense to be a contender. And, if you just look at all the 2025 posts here now lol, they are all about ADDING defeneive players through FA and the draft . . two things NOT done last year.
So, all of that is to say that a BOWLES DEFENSE won a Super Bowl only a few years ago and in NOTABLE FASHION and with an offense that is similar in out put to this one. That Super Bowl winning defense had much better talent but still only 3 ppg better in scoring
This is why I have said that IF Coen is willing to stay on they very likely stay with Bowles EVEN though the defense was a BIG problem this year.
yeah, we get grouped into Bowles bros much like we were Baker bros in 2023. Remember the hate with some idiots clamoring for Trask. They then have the arrogance to think they are superior knowledge wise this year. The fan base on here has a very knee jerk reaction to everything. Makes me wonder if they have ever worked in a corporation setting.
none of us would shed a tear if Bowles were to get shit canned. I will never forgive him for that blitz in the Rams game nor giving Brady his only losing season. But, to suggest what has transpired over the last 2 years, post Brady, is not a positive for the Bucs; well, it's being delusional. As i suggest, the statue of Bowles being built....the man, the myth...the legend...Todd Bowles.
Ownership likely could not be happier for what has occurred. Do you all remember 2009 through 2019?
so yeah, Bowles is mediocre at best, we will never win the big one with him, but again, the talent was lacking on the defensive side of the ball, we were biding our time on the dead cape space. Imagine the expectations will be much higher this offseason with the talent deficiency addressed. This will be make or break year for Todd and i would likely guess he is fired in January 2026 because i see another Bucs early playoff exit.
@badabingbucs Tampa is going to have to get a little creative with the cap in 2025...There was a considerable amount of dead cap shaved between this year and next, but still sitting with 30mil in dead cap between Barrett, Jensen, and Carmada..Also with the earned bonuses that were hit this year our available cap dipped from 23mil to 11 mil and some change...Yes some moves can be made like extending both Evans and Godwin to help with that a little bit, and cutting or trading Dean post June 1st frees up 12.8 million but there will have to be other restructures (maybe Wirfs?) and maybe extend Goedeke that will have to happen in order for this front office to really be able to bring in some competition on the defensive side of the ball in FA.
