The comical thing about the Baker Bros (including the habitually drunk one) is that anyone criticizing Mayfield is a "Trask Troll".
Yet, they'll post tweets from Ledyard, Queipo, etc.
Guess they've been selective in which ones.
The irony is rich...
I'm a Baker bro? Lmfao
I don't think there's any real Baker Bros... I think people just like him as a person and were pleasantly surprised that he had a good/solid year for us...
And double lolz at "TKO".
You're really gonna use a play where we ran 4 routes and Otton came open? That means 3 were covered perfectly. It was a bad route combo against that zone. They read it PERFECTLY.
The absurdity to say Baker, who as we all know is at best an average QB, should be finding these players open all the time is hilarious.
That was a bad play. We were covered... yes he should have found Otton but you guys expect Baker to be something he's not and that your issue.
You saying we should have scored 28 points like... omg in what fucking world?
So I'm a "Baker Bro" yet I gave him an F grade... yet you think Bucs should have scored 28 points.
Ridiculous.
"TKO"
I'm a Baker bro? Lmfao
For the amount of time you say I spend defending Canales, you're as equal in your defense of Baker.
So, there ya' go, kiddo.
Yin/Yang.
You're really gonna use a play where we ran 4 routes and Otton came open? That means 3 were covered perfectly. It was a bad route combo against that zone. They read it PERFECTLY.
The absurdity to say Baker, who as we all know is at best an average QB, should be finding these players open all the time is hilarious.
This.
The game thread is basically one big Baker "I told you so" troll LMAO. To some that troll was CLEARLY more important than the game itself
You're really gonna use a play where we ran 4 routes and Otton came open? That means 3 were covered perfectly. It was a bad route combo against that zone. They read it PERFECTLY.
That was a bad play. We were covered... yes he should have found Otton but you guys expect Baker to be something he's not and that your issue.
This is pretty bad analysis, and illustrates the point I'm making perfectly as to why you're putting stuff on the playcaller that shouldn't be.
There were five routes, with Otton being WIDE OPEN because the defender that was supposed to be covering Otton bit up on Edmonds' shallow crossing route. Nothing was read perfectly, not by the defense or the QB. It wasn't a bad route combo, it was a good route combo that did exactly what it was supposed to do: attack the defense and get a guy open for the first down. But the QB shit the bed and took an unnecessary sack. Now it's third-and-long instead of moving the chains and first-and-ten. The ripple effect of poor QB play.
The absurdity to say Baker, who as we all know is at best an average QB, should be finding these players open all the time is hilarious.
It's absurd to believe a veteran NFL QB should hit open receivers with regularity? Cool. And in your wisdom, you believe the playcaller is at fault for getting receivers open but the QB not being able to find them. Can I get a list of the plays/situations where it's not OK for the playcaller to have open receivers for the QB to miss?
In reality, all of the open receivers is the best argument that the playcaller is doing his job and the QB is not. I must admit, I've never seen anyone excuse a veteran QB for repeatedly missing open receivers. I have to give you props for that one. And you're saying all of this while also lamenting that the team runs the ball too much? So the playcaller shouldn't get open recievers because Mayfield is only going to miss them, but he also isn't suppose to run the ball as much. You're pretty demanding on OC's.
You saying we should have scored 28 points like... omg in what fucking world?
In the world where the starting NFL QB can make routine throws. Unreasonable, I'm sure - but that's the world I'm living in.
I'm a Baker bro? Lmfao
I don't think there's any real Baker Bros... I think people just like him as a person and were pleasantly surprised that he had a good/solid year for us...
And double lolz at "TKO".
You're really gonna use a play where we ran 4 routes and Otton came open? That means 3 were covered perfectly. It was a bad route combo against that zone. They read it PERFECTLY.
The absurdity to say Baker, who as we all know is at best an average QB, should be finding these players open all the time is hilarious.
That was a bad play. We were covered... yes he should have found Otton but you guys expect Baker to be something he's not and that your issue.
You saying we should have scored 28 points like... omg in what fucking world?
So I'm a "Baker Bro" yet I gave him an F grade... yet you think Bucs should have scored 28 points.
Ridiculous.
"TKO"
You can't be serious with this. If a QB is doing their job right, they'll know who's not likely to be open based on the defensive alignment and keys. Allowing the QB to eliminate some of the progressions pre-snap. Post snap, the QB confirms and goes through the routes that should be available. Baker has sucked at doing this all year and should have known Otton was likely to be a good target and should have looked his way instead of panicking like he always does. You want to blame Canales, and, to be fair, he's had plenty of bad calls (situationally or just bad) all season, but so does every OC in the league. None call perfect games. None. Further, Canales' passing concepts have been getting Evans and Godwin open a ton this year, and it's been very difficult for teams to cover both guys at the same time. Baker has missed 1st down making open receivers in the middle intermediate level all season. He's also missed wide open deep guys all year. Then there's the actual passes he's thrown and missed, such as the Evans duck floater that should have been 6 and almost turned into a potential pick. I'd give Dave a C for yesterday's game. His forcing of the runs at times was ridiculous, but he's trying to force the defense to respond and trying to get better runs to force that. I don't agree with doing that as much, but it is a necessary evil to setup tendencies that you can use against defenses. Canales can only do so much. The QB has to do better. First two drives both had at least one play with a receiver running wide open deep for what would have been TD's.
This is pretty bad analysis, and illustrates the point I'm making perfectly as to why you're putting stuff on the playcaller that shouldn't be.
There were five routes, with Otton being WIDE OPEN because the defender that was supposed to be covering Otton bit up on Edmonds' shallow crossing route. Nothing was read perfectly, not by the defense or the QB. It wasn't a bad route combo, it was a good route combo that did exactly what it was supposed to do: attack the defense and get a guy open for the first down. But the QB shit the bed and took an unnecessary sack. Now it's third-and-long instead of moving the chains and first-and-ten. The ripple effect of poor QB play.
So you're saying that the play was designed to get Edmonds and/Otton open... even though he was very clearly waiting for the first 3 reads to get open?
I guess it's possible but I highly doubt that was the design of the play. Of course he should, as should all QBs, gone through every progression and found Otton.
But what I've is Baker is limited... and he played an F game... so he clearly left points.
But you're judging Baker as if every other QB would go through the professions there and find a late read.
So how many QBs are truly good enough to go through their 4th and 5th read?
I've seen elite QBs struggle to do this all the time... Jackson, Allen, Hurts, Herbert, Tua, Mahomes, etc... they've all struggled this year at times to read and adjust.
The best teams are scheming players open quick... 1st or 2nd read.
So if you're gonna hold Baker to the elite standard of what you expect the best QBs to do, fine.
Then I expect Canales to scheme players more often like the Dolphins do. 1 read, wide open, no thinking just hike and go...
Canales gets people open but it's rarely a quick read... it's usually slow developing.
In the end, Baker was a huge problem vs Panthers. He has to play better or we are cooked... no and in the future.
Canales also struggled vs Panthers, and Baker left points, but we had zero rhythm or continuity all game.
Canales and Bowles have to share that blame.
Then I expect Canales to scheme players more often like the Dolphins do. 1 read, wide open, no thinking just hike and go..
You're comparing a rookie playcaller to one that has 3 years experience doing it with 2 different teams (who also spent time on staffs with 3 of the greatest offensive minds in modern football).
So you're saying that the play was designed to get Edmonds and/Otton open... even though he was very clearly waiting for the first 3 reads to get open?
I’ve said nothing of the sort, as I don’t know what his progressions were supposed to be. All I can tell you is what he did. He looked right towards Godwin & Evans, at which time the Safety dropped down to double Godwin, leaving Evans 1-on-1 with his CB. I’m curious to know if Evans beat his dude, but we can’t see it from the broadcast view.
Then BM immediately looks left at Edmonds once Godwin was doubled. He pumps and pulls it down, which is a good decision because Edmonds is doubled by Otton’s man. Otton was wide open for vast majority of this play, but it looks to me like BM made his mind up presnap and was always going to Edmonds, as his look right very quick. I think he looked right to move the S/LB, but it didn’t work.
Obviously your original analysis wasn’t correct. But honest question - have you actually rewatched this play? It really doesn’t seem like it with the analysis you’re giving about 4th/5th progression, etc.. At worst, Otton would have 2nd after looking right because he was in the middle of the field. The RB running a shallow crosser would have been his last outlet, but he went there very quickly - which leads me to believe BM made his mind up presnap about where he wanted to go with the ball.
which leads me to believe BM made his mind up presnap about where he wanted to go with the ball.
Speaking of having his mind made up presnap, check out Queipo’s tweet showing a play with Edmunds.
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So you're saying that the play was designed to get Edmonds and/Otton open... even though he was very clearly waiting for the first 3 reads to get open?
I’ve said nothing of the sort, as I don’t know what his progressions were supposed to be. All I can tell you is what he did. He looked right towards Godwin & Evans, at which time the Safety dropped down to double Godwin, leaving Evans 1-on-1 with his CB. I’m curious to know if Evans beat his dude, but we can’t see it from the broadcast view.
Then BM immediately looks left at Edmonds once Godwin was doubled. He pumps and pulls it down, which is a good decision because Edmonds is doubled by Otton’s man. Otton was wide open for vast majority of this play, but it looks to me like BM made his mind up presnap and was always going to Edmonds, as his look right very quick. I think he looked right to move the S/LB, but it didn’t work.
Obviously your original analysis wasn’t correct. But honest question - have you actually rewatched this play? It really doesn’t seem like it with the analysis you’re giving about 4th/5th progression, etc.. At worst, Otton would have 2nd after looking right because he was in the middle of the field. The RB running a shallow crosser would have been his last outlet, but he went there very quickly - which leads me to believe BM made his mind up presnap about where he wanted to go with the ball.
I haven't rewatched it. Just the live broadcast. Hence why I don't recall Otton being open... but I believe you that he was
Then I expect Canales to scheme players more often like the Dolphins do. 1 read, wide open, no thinking just hike and go..
You're comparing a rookie playcaller to one that has 3 years experience doing it with 2 different teams (who also spent time on staffs with 3 of the greatest offensive minds in modern football).
I mean... yes? I'd be interested to see how he stacks up against the Redskins tree of coordinators in their first year. (Shanahan, LeFleur, McDaniels).
Baker is in his 6th year so yes I do agree he should be processing better... but by all accounts he played pretty dang well this year... grading on a curve. He limited turnovers, he picked up key conversions with his legs, he led a handful of game winning drives, he threw for 4k yards, he maximized Evans.
We all know Baker isn't elite... And we all know Canales can and will improve.
But right now they are both about the same. Moments of great play and moments of stupidity.
And like I said Baker - F
Canales - D
We should have probably scored 7-10 more points that game.
I think the one play early when Baker locked in on Palmer, who was covered by Jaycee Horn, and nearly threw a pick at the guy. He never looked him off. That is poor QB'ing right there. Mayfield just doesn't seem to have the ability to go through his progressions well, and has a tendency to lock onto guys way too often.
which leads me to believe BM made his mind up presnap about where he wanted to go with the ball.
Speaking of having his mind made up presnap, check out Queipo’s tweet showing a play with Edmunds.
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I just can't figure out why the playcaller can't make things easier and adjust for the QB?????
As usual that comment makes no sense because Mayfield is LITERALLY going with the play call (Palmer isolated and with no safety over the top) on a day when he couldn’t complete a pass over 10 yards.
his presnap read is to go to Palmer. Palmer was obviously (and wrongly in my view) a big part of the game plan.
he should go to Edmonds. Brady would have. He’s no Brady though. He’s very often going only where the play is designed. That’s why you see him ESPECIALLY in the last two games throw balls that should be intercepted. The play is mismatched to the D
in this game we throw a screen that gets destroyed because they drop into zone. Clearly Canales was fooled
