Again, just a different way to look at things
The one view (majority) expressed on here is Bowles SCHEME is to blame. The other (distinct minority lol) is "what about TALENT?" In the MAJORITY view Bowles is the problem, arguably holding back players (eg edge rusher dropping). The other view is the talent is way different - and actual FACT, right? Indisputable?
Both things could be true ie Bowles is holding back an untalented defense, but is that really that likely IF YOU LOOK AT ACTUAL BUCS HISTORY?
Bowles took over nearly the worst defense in the league and took it to winning a Super Bowl IN A DOMINANT DEFENSIVE FASHION THAT FEATURE LIMITED BLITZING.
During those years, both JPP and Barrett saw declining sacks themselves BUT as the defense improved dramatically.
Their numbers didnt drop because Bowles likes to send edge rushers into coverage lol. They dropped because he (appropriately) prefers a defense with MULTIPLE pressure threats that can change game to game.
Barrett dropped from 19 (in 2019) to 8. JPP was at 9.5 even when he was 12.5 in 2018. Team sacks went up slight though because . . .Devin White had 9 sacks
Or, reverse it around . .. LVD had 5.5 sacks this year. He only had 2 in 2020. Still take 2020 LVD over this year, right?
The goal is not a double digit sacking end, it is having a defense where a double digit sacking end skews the way the offense has to respond.
In the Super Bowl we had TWO edge rushers that teams had to contend with . .. AND nearly a double digit sacks a MLB ... . and BLITZING and BEHIND THAT two MAN CORNERS and a great safety.
This year . . . we had ZERO game changing edge rushers? (maybe 1/2 for Diaby). . . so that left this defense with BLITZING . . and basically no man corners (Dean always injured, McCollum okay) and no safety (AWJ injured. Whitehead garbage)
Far cry from the MULTIPLE weapons Super Bowl defense only a few years ago
Bowles would not waste a talented DE. The defense would improve substantially.
(Why didnt we go get one in 2024 or 2023? A question for another day)
These players on the Bucs defense are hand picked by Bowles. Also, Bowles' job is to play to the strengths of the players he has to work with which is why this season was a failure more so for DC Bowles than HC Bowles.
On passing downs he can do nascar packages and kick Diaby inside and put Watts in space to rush the passer or drop into coverage.
Bowles has corners with sub 4.4 speed and he can blitz them to make fire zone blitzes worth it.
The strength of this defense even with all the injuries was the backend and the defensive line. If the defensive line is the strength of your team do not drop them into coverage. Kancey should be hitting that gap every time and the same with Vea.
I do wonder what it would cost to get Maxx Crosby - a 1st? let's do it. A bit of a down year, another year older, maybe we can swing it.
LDE Maxx Crosby
NT Vita Vea
RDE Calijah Kancey
Bring back David a year, sign a vet pass rusher, draft an ILB guy in 3rd round
WLB Yaya Diaby
ILB Deontae Lawson, Alabama
ILB Lavonte David
SLB Haason Reddick
Cut Dean, draft a CB in second round, sign a veteran
LCB Charvarius Ward; Trey Amos, Ole Miss
SS Jordan Whitehead
FS Antonio Windfield JR
RCB Zyon McCollum
NB Tykee Smith
not sure if they can swing it cap wise, particularly with resigning Godwin, but maybe a few restructures, extentions in Evans, etc. and they can swing it.
The strength of this defense even with all the injuries was the backend
wow
not sure how you come up with that
But anyway, the Super Bowl defense has 3 guys, maybe four, who are 8-9 sacks guys
Last year AWJ had 6 while Diaby had 7.5 so that dropped to 2 and 4.5 BUT the team sack totals are about the same year over year. The b;itz and stunts etc are manufacturing some of the pressure
Kancey should be hitting that gap every time and the same with Vea.
these are the top sack guys, right?
These players on the Bucs defense are hand picked by Bowles.
They traded Carlton Davis for a pick that became our rookie WR?
For sure hes got input in the picks but the Bucs success means the picks themselves are later than most AND ther eis an ENTIRE DRAFT CLASS LOSR+T that should really be delivering this year. That draft class is lost because the Bucs were completely in WIN NOW by keeping every player mode:
OLB Joe Tryon, Washington
QB Kyle Trask, Florida
OL Robert Hainsey, Notre Dame
WR Jaelon Darden, North Texas
LB KJ Britt, Auburn
CB CJ Wilcox, BYU
LB Grant Stuard, Houston
The strength of this defense even with all the injuries was the backend
wow
not sure how you come up with that
But anyway, the Super Bowl defense has 3 guys, maybe four, who are 8-9 sacks guys
Last year AWJ had 6 while Diaby had 7.5 so that dropped to 2 and 4.5 BUT the team sack totals are about the same year over year. The b;itz and stunts etc are manufacturing some of the pressure
Kancey should be hitting that gap every time and the same with Vea.
these are the top sack guys, right?
These players on the Bucs defense are hand picked by Bowles.
They traded Carlton Davis for a pick that became our rookie WR?
For sure hes got input in the picks but the Bucs success means the picks themselves are later than most AND ther eis an ENTIRE DRAFT CLASS LOSR+T that should really be delivering this year. That draft class is lost because the Bucs were completely in WIN NOW by keeping every player mode:
OLB Joe Tryon, Washington
QB Kyle Trask, Florida
OL Robert Hainsey, Notre Dame
WR Jaelon Darden, North Texas
LB KJ Britt, Auburn
CB CJ Wilcox, BYU
LB Grant Stuard, Houston
So a late 1st rounder on a DE because weve got JPP and Barrett but then we go with a 100% Licht pick (Trask) that is about the future of the Bucs not an "hand picked" Bowles pick and the next two are offense as wellThat class should be killing it this season
wow. what a shit draft. may go down as one of Jasons worst
may go down as one of Jasons worst
If you recall he said it was "liberating" to not really need anyone to play that year, said trhye were focused on long term, guys that could start in a few years
i remember liking the Eagles draft that year with OG Landon Dickerson and DE Milton Williams. There's two guys that much rather have drafted in our first 2 rounds. Would have had a much better offensive line in 2022 when Marpet unexpectly retired and Kappa left for free agency. Also, would have had an answer at LDE instead of spending a pick on Logan Hall.
may go down as one of Jasons worst
If you recall he said it was "liberating" to not really need anyone to play that year, said trhye were focused on long term, guys that could start in a few years
Sounds like he was still drunk on the super bowl win and went Yolo with every pick.
JTS - reach/project
Trask - brain dead pick
Hainsey - exactly what we thought he'd be when Humphrey was one pick ahead of Trask.
Darden - listening to Brady lolz
Britt - no issue with this pick he just stinks
Wilcox - who?
Stuard - really good specially teams player that we traded for peanuts. Maybe the best pick of the draft sadly.
Licht was high on his own supply. This draft class has zero identity, foresight, or compelling pick.
F-
2014 - landed Mike Evans, mount Rushmore all time Bucs great
2015 - landed Donovan Smith and Ali Marpet who were starting on our offensive line during Super Bowl year. Winston was a bust but i understand the selection, Kwon was half decent for a few years
2016 - brutal draft. This one may actually be his worst - Vernon Hargreaves, Noah Spence, and Roberto Aguayo
2017 - landed Chris Godwin. Not much else. OJ was a bust. Justin Evans and Kendell Beckwith with great rookie years but not much else with injuries. Jeremy McNichols still hanging around! who would have thought.
2018 - pretty darn good draft with Vita Vea, Carlton Davis, Alex Cappa, and Jordan Whitehead. Ronald Jones was ok for a little but shit overall
2019 - Devin White, SMB, Jamel Dean, Mike Edwards, and Anthony Nelson. Not a bad haul albeit White flamed out
2020 - Tristian Wirfs and Antonio Winfield Jr! enough said
2021 - yeah if not the worst, right behind 2016 draft
2022 - some decent players so far in Hall, Goedeke, White, Otton, and McCollum.
2023 - Still too early to tell but Kancy, Mauch, Diaby, Dennis all look like contributors
2024 - looks like can be pretty solid with Barton, McMillian and Bucky.
Licht was high on his own supply. This draft class has zero identity, foresight, or compelling pick.
exactly.
Its like they said, "a f--k it . . . pick someone . .. we dont need them now anyway."
Pretty difficult to maintain a top competitive team when you are on a run of division wins and loaded down with DEAD CAP. Pcking late and no free agents to speak of.
Even more difficult when some of your big players (production) on defense LEAVE or crap out
JPP
Barrett
White
Dean
Davis
even LVD -- if we are bring honest - was a FRACTION of himself this season and ESPECIALLY at his formerly dominant coverage role. No knock on him
and AWJ injured or money-f'd
First of all that draft post SB focused on depth which is never a good way to draft. You draft potential future starters that act as depth in the mean time until they develop into full time starters. That is why the 2022 draft is a much better draft than 2021 because Licht went back to what actually worked.
No matter where you are drafting I have seen teams draft depth players with no starting potential very low and very high. The Patriots are a good example which is why they are devoid of talent. When the Patriots were winning they keep trading down and reaching for depth/project players and when they started losing. Well, they were still reaching for depth players that have very low ceilings. That is why the Patriots are the least talented team in the NFL honestly.
This thread just got more interesting with Coen apparently staying
