Speaking of guard. The only offensive player I would consider at 19 that would realistically be there is Kelvin Banks Jr. His frame and skill set screams All-Pro guard. He'll be drafted as a LT, he'll play either OT spot well but for us we could slide him in right next to Wirfs and have a historically great offensive line.
There are going to have to be a lot of players off of the board for that to make sense.
And it took 3 defensive busts: Okudah, Simmons and Henderson, for us to be able to land Wirfs at 13. 3.5 busts if you consider the 49ers could have just taken Wirfs and not traded him to us for them to just take Kinlaw.
Point is teams made picks that made sense for them at the time but in retrospect are dumpster fires. We passed on some really good players to draft Hargraeves, but corner was a "need".
my point is more that for 2-3 years you will have an asset wasting on the sidelines. only so many balls to go around.
A counter argument to this is Evans may only have one premium season left in him and Godwin has only played one full season over the last 6 seasons.
Speaking of guard. The only offensive player I would consider at 19 that would realistically be there is Kelvin Banks Jr. His frame and skill set screams All-Pro guard. He'll be drafted as a LT, he'll play either OT spot well but for us we could slide him in right next to Wirfs and have a historically great offensive line.
There are going to have to be a lot of players off of the board for that to make sense.
And it took 3 defensive busts: Okudah, Simmons and Henderson, for us to be able to land Wirfs at 13. 3.5 busts if you consider the 49ers could have just taken Wirfs and not traded him to us for them to just take Kinlaw.
Point is teams made picks that made sense for them at the time but in retrospect are dumpster fires.
I don't disagree that teams do stupid things. But I'm not sure how that applies to what I said. Frankly, I would consider drafting Kelvin Banks in the stupid category - unless a lot of other players are off the board that do make sense.
We passed on some really good players to draft Hargraeves, but corner was a "need".
Tunsil is really the only player that you could make a serious argument that he should have been drafted where the Bucs picked. Outside a few players taken before the Bucs picked, that 2016 first round was pretty ugly.
Speaking of guard. The only offensive player I would consider at 19 that would realistically be there is Kelvin Banks Jr. His frame and skill set screams All-Pro guard. He'll be drafted as a LT, he'll play either OT spot well but for us we could slide him in right next to Wirfs and have a historically great offensive line.
There are going to have to be a lot of players off of the board for that to make sense.
And it took 3 defensive busts: Okudah, Simmons and Henderson, for us to be able to land Wirfs at 13. 3.5 busts if you consider the 49ers could have just taken Wirfs and not traded him to us for them to just take Kinlaw.
Point is teams made picks that made sense for them at the time but in retrospect are dumpster fires.
I don't disagree that teams do stupid things. But I'm not sure how that applies to what I said. Frankly, I would consider drafting Kelvin Banks in the stupid category - unless a lot of other players are off the board that do make sense.
We passed on some really good players to draft Hargraeves, but corner was a "need".
Tunsil is really the only player that you could make a serious argument that he should have been drafted where the Bucs picked. Outside a few players taken before the Bucs picked, that 2016 first round was pretty ugly.
If Banks is a pro-bowl guard, how many players have to come off the board first? If Banks is a hall of fame guard, how many players have to come off the board first?
You want to focus on picks 1-32 but the 2016 draft class was very strong overall and Licht shit himself.
If Banks is a pro-bowl guard, how many players have to come off the board first? If Banks is a hall of fame guard, how many players have to come off the board first?
If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts…
Is anybody else projecting Banks to move inside? He looks like a decent OT prospect to me.
You want to focus on picks 1-32 but the 2016 draft class was very strong overall and Licht shit himself.
“Very strong overall” is highly debatable. It’s hard to make that case with the high number of shitty first round picks.
Licht and damn near every other GM in R1. You can shit on Licht if you want, but Hargreaves wasn’t over drafted. He went right about where was supposed to and the team needed a CB. Like OJ Howard, it just didn’t work out. It happens - to every GM in the league.
If Banks is a pro-bowl guard, how many players have to come off the board first? If Banks is a hall of fame guard, how many players have to come off the board first?
If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts…
Is anybody else projecting Banks to move inside? He looks like a decent OT prospect to me.
You want to focus on picks 1-32 but the 2016 draft class was very strong overall and Licht shit himself.
“Very strong overall” is highly debatable. It’s hard to make that case with the high number of shitty first round picks.
Licht and damn near every other GM in R1. You can shit on Licht if you want, but Hargreaves wasn’t over drafted. He went right about where was supposed to and the team needed a CB. Like OJ Howard, it just didn’t work out. It happens - to every GM in the league.
I agree to some extent but at the time the tape looked bad for him given his measurables.
It also somewhat highlights the groupthink nature of the NFL.
Teams value players because other teams value players.
Hargraves didn't show anything that looked like a good boundary CB. And you don't take slot corners that early.
So yes, most of the first round sucked but that shouldn't excuse an awful pick.
Also this draft choice is compounded by trading up into the 2nd round for Roberto Aguayo.
It's a comically bad draft with plenty of winners out there... When in the first round after we picked.
I agree to some extent but at the time the tape looked bad for him given his measurables.
It also somewhat highlights the groupthink nature of the NFL.
Teams value players because other teams value players.
Hargraves didn't show anything that looked like a good boundary CB. And you don't take slot corners that early.
These arguments are great with the benefit of hindsight. But there sure weren’t many folks, as in hardly any, making them at the time. There were those that preferred Tunsil at the time - a group I was in - but not because Hargreaves wasn’t a worthy selection. I just liked Tunsil as a top 5 prospect and didn’t care about the stupid video.
So yes, most of the first round sucked but that shouldn't excuse an awful pick.
When there was only one other player that anybody can look back nine years ago and say he should have been the pick, it kinda does.
If Banks is a pro-bowl guard, how many players have to come off the board first? If Banks is a hall of fame guard, how many players have to come off the board first?
If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts…
Is anybody else projecting Banks to move inside? He looks like a decent OT prospect to me.
You want to focus on picks 1-32 but the 2016 draft class was very strong overall and Licht shit himself.
“Very strong overall” is highly debatable. It’s hard to make that case with the high number of shitty first round picks.
Licht and damn near every other GM in R1. You can shit on Licht if you want, but Hargreaves wasn’t over drafted. He went right about where was supposed to and the team needed a CB. Like OJ Howard, it just didn’t work out. It happens - to every GM in the league.
We're talking draft philosophy, so hypotheticals are part of the discussion. So I'll ask again, if Banks if a pro-bowl guard how many players have to come off the board? if Banks is a hall of fame guard, how many players have to come off the board? You won't answer the question because you painted yourself into a corner with the logic that the Bucs MUST draft a position other than guard because the offensive line is young and good and the defense is lacking. But the reality is we can sign a starting CB, starting ILB and starting edge and as of right now there is no starting LG under contract. Until that changes, guard is an option in round 1. Banks is a squatty OT that can easily be an A+ guard. He could be the 1st-3rd OL off the board depending on Simmons' medical. Nobody has talked about Banks playing inside because it's just presumed a tackle needy team will take him but the Bucs are not tackle needy.
Very strong overall is not debatable. It was a strong draft that was very poorly pre-ranked. Which explains you're moronic fixation on just the first round. Using ProFootballReference's wAV, 19 of the top 32 players were drafted outside of the 1st round. Included in these players are Tyreek Hill, Dak Prescott, Chris Jones, Derrick Henry, Joe Thuney, Justin Simmons, Matt Judon. Forget about Hargreaves, Licht had pick 39, which was the equivalent of shitting on the draft card, and then traded up a kicker at 59 who couldn't even make an extra point, which was the equivalent of wiping his ass with the draft card.
Yup agreed but I do think we can kick the can on wr for one more year unless one falls to us.
Most definitely. Bucs' priority should be defense for just about every position, maybe DL at the bottom of that list, but still, unless a premiere offensive talent fall to them...
I do not see the Bucs passing on WR prospects in the third round. McMillan was a great value in the third last draft, and it is going to be a great value position in the third again most likely in the upcoming draft. Same with OG and DL respectively.
but why? How many years evans on this team in your mind?
how about Godwin? Atleast 3 right?
I am thinking 2 more years to be honest for Evans and Godwin maybe 3, but that could be only 2 years. Plus, if Higgins is there in the third round why would the Bucs pass on him? At 6-4 217 Higgins would compliment McMillan well.
Speaking of guard. The only offensive player I would consider at 19 that would realistically be there is Kelvin Banks Jr. His frame and skill set screams All-Pro guard. He'll be drafted as a LT, he'll play either OT spot well but for us we could slide him in right next to Wirfs and have a historically great offensive line.
Don't be surprised if Licht drafts another guard to plug in because Bredeson might be overpaid by some other team based on the Bucs offensive ranking in 2024 and not his true play performance. People assume the Bucs go defense with the first pick but guard is in play as a darkhorse possibility.
This draft is full of collegiate tackles that will convert to guard and Licht isn't going to pass up on that type of value.
my point is more that for 2-3 years you will have an asset wasting on the sidelines. only so many balls to go around. Think about when we had AB....no other WR got looks outside of the top three
Johnson and Miller barely got targets/reps
so with a team whose offense is already in the top 5 and the defense is ass...just think our first 3-4 picks should be defense. if you want to use 1 for offense...ehh ok...but the talent deficiency on defense needs all the help it can get
Yeah there are injury concerns with starters on defense but the same is true on offense. If Godwin is injured again the offense really has to scrape by which is why adding another WR really ensures the Bucs offense remains a juggernaut.
That is why within the first four draft picks for the Bucs I think OG and WR are definitely in play. Also, I think the Bucs address defense enough via free agency where they can just take BAP defender in in round 1 and then round 2 or 4 but that is my opinion.
Personally I think if the Bucs can not land a decent edge via the draft then they should invest in a pass rushing DT to rotate with Vea and Kancey.
When there was only one other player that anybody can look back nine years ago and say he should have been the pick, it kinda does.
Again tho it's groupthink... Players get projected in a range then the pick becomes justified which is lazy.
There's 6 or 7 great picks that follow Hargraves within 30 selections. Would some of them have been a 20/20 hindsight reach? Sure of course... But still.
Tunsil, Kelly, Decker (all good line prospects)
Clark, Jones, Howard.
There's other JAG players that were better... In fact I'd argue he was one of the worst players in the first 3 rounds.
not because Hargreaves wasn’t a worthy selection.
wth?
he was the classic need based reach
And he was the classic "let's draft Florida players" approach which for some reason the Bucs and Jags became obsessed with for a stretch.
Like literally they're drafted to get butts in the seats or something.
We're talking draft philosophy
No, we’re not. We’re talking about your speculation on moving an OT prospect to OG, if he’s even available. Which he probably won’t be because some team will more than likely draft him as an OT before the Bucs pick.
To answer your hypothetical question, you’ll never regret drafting an All-pro - regardless of position. Now, I’ll hold my breath until Banks becomes an All-Pro OG.
Nobody has talked about Banks playing inside
Exactly.
Very strong overall is not debatable. It was a strong draft that was very poorly pre-ranked.
lolz, every year there are good players drafted after R1. But not every year is there a first round as shitty as 2016. It wasn’t a good draft.
Forget about Hargreaves, Licht had pick 39, which was the equivalent of shitting on the draft card, and then traded up a kicker at 59 who couldn't even make an extra point, which was the equivalent of wiping his ass with the draft card.
No argument here. Licht deserves all the criticism you want for that.
Would some of them have been a 20/20 hindsight reach? Sure of course... But still.
That’s my point. It’s pretty easy to pick players nine years later. But there was nobody clamoring for Ryan Kelly (or any of those other players you listed ) when the Bucs were on the clock. It was pretty much Tunsil v Hargreaves.
