but ok, let's pivot from the Lions pending early playoff exit and go to a more comparable example with Zac Taylor of the Bengals. A record below .500 with healthy bengals team set to miss playoffs this year. Does he keep his job? If so, how does that happen compared to Todd?
Listen, im all for moving on from Bowles, just saying there will be hesitation giving his resounding success as him as head coach. A top 5 Bucs coach of all time batting 1,000 on playoff appearences (of course, this all goes to shit if they lose to the Saints which is entirely possible)
and im strictly talking backlash throughout the NFL. The actual national media will be busy enough with a new administration so it may only be news for a day; but yeah it's negative publicity that the Glazers will have to navigate somehow.
The difference is we play in a shit division.
Bengals and Lions play in good divisions.
The comparisons just get more and more lazy.
Does anyone think Bowles could make the playoffs playing in the NFC North?
No fucking way. Not this year or the last 2 years
Every division has gone through it - sometimes teams take that period to build something that can be sustained for the longterm. Thats what’s going on here.but ok, let's pivot from the Lions pending early playoff exit and go to a more comparable example with Zac Taylor of the Bengals. A record below .500 with healthy bengals team set to miss playoffs this year. Does he keep his job? If so, how does that happen compared to Todd?
Listen, im all for moving on from Bowles, just saying there will be hesitation giving his resounding success as him as head coach. A top 5 Bucs coach of all time batting 1,000 on playoff appearences (of course, this all goes to shit if they lose to the Saints which is entirely possible)
and im strictly talking backlash throughout the NFL. The actual national media will be busy enough with a new administration so it may only be news for a day; but yeah it's negative publicity that the Glazers will have to navigate somehow.
The difference is we play in a shit division.
Bengals and Lions play in good divisions.
This same argument was somewhat stifled last year when the Bucs won two playoff games, even though the division sucked. Now, even though our defense is rock bottom, the offense just jerked up the window on the Super Bowl, so it matters how we handle any transition.
The argument that we’re in a weak division means nothing with 4 division titles while you maintain an ability to make a transition and stay competitive towards a Super Bowl. Atlanta has spent money to get better, Carolina seems to be in the midst of changing their future…who knows what NOLA does - we take advantage of our position by getting better in defense.
The league is built on parity - which puts stress on a front office & organizations to continue improving despite the setbacks. Looks to me like we’re getting better.
Very few, if any, are arguing to keep Bowles, what’s being argued is how to maintain success in what looks to be an obvious upcoming transition.
Firing Bowles after a successful season in which the team will win more games than the year previous, on the door of the playoffs, after a 4th division winning schedule, only invites trouble.
How this is handled is going to be as interesting as this season has been.
but ok, let's pivot from the Lions pending early playoff exit and go to a more comparable example with Zac Taylor of the Bengals. A record below .500 with healthy bengals team set to miss playoffs this year. Does he keep his job? If so, how does that happen compared to Todd?
Both the Bengals and Buccaneers have great offenses and crappy defenses. The difference is Todd Bowles is the playcaller on the unit that is struggling while Zac Taylor is the playcaller on the unit that is carrying the team. Zac Taylor can make the pitch to fire his DC. Bowles really can’t put the blame on anyone else.
Not the best comparison.
Not this year or the last 2 years
the last 2 years with no free agents?
Thats the thing. You either see the Bucs intentionally holding back on players for cap or not.
If you accept that that is what they are doing and you consider the Super Bowl performance or "7th in scoring" last year, its not that hard to see the Bucs being better, especially when you now see the stark contrast between Canales and Coen
Bowles is 2 for 2 for picking offensive coordinators so he has that going for him. We will see what the last game of the season and possibly playoffs show us of this team.
Given that the team is still holding it close due to salary cap the primary goal is the development of the young players. I feel overall that that the development of the players on offense the last three years have progressed nicely. I can not say the same for the players on defense drafted the last three years overall because this year has been a step back for a lot of the drafted players or their progress has been slowed.
So it has been a mixed bag really.
Offense:
UP: Goedeke, White, Otton, Mauch, Durham, Barton, McMillan(R), Irving(R), Culp(R)
Neutral: Klein(R), Kieft, Palmer
Defense:
UP: Hall, McCollum, Kancey, Diaby, Dennis
Neutral: Hayes, Ramirez, Braswell (R), Smith(R)
Overall none of the drafted players from these 3 drafts spanning from 2022 to 2024 are going backwards in their progression which is good news based on what we have seen in the 2024 season.. Exception being Camarda who was the lone player that had a big down arrow on his play this year and was cut in the middle of the season.
Ironically it felt like the defensive players would make a more immediate impact as rookies (Smith and Braswell). But the 2024 rookies on offense are just really helping propel the team into a stronger future overall. Barton, Irving and McMillan add to the existing core offense which is very good and bright future for the team.
It also shows that Licht is back on track after having a cutesy draft of taking a bunch of project/backup depth players in the 2021 draft which is probably the most controversial draft top to bottom that Licht has orchestrated overall. I would argue that is Licht's worst draft top to bottom to date easily.
but ok, let's pivot from the Lions pending early playoff exit and go to a more comparable example with Zac Taylor of the Bengals. A record below .500 with healthy bengals team set to miss playoffs this year. Does he keep his job? If so, how does that happen compared to Todd?
Both the Bengals and Buccaneers have great offenses and crappy defenses. The difference is Todd Bowles is the playcaller on the unit that is struggling while Zac Taylor is the playcaller on the unit that is carrying the team. Zac Taylor can make the pitch to fire his DC. Bowles really can’t put the blame on anyone else.
Not the best comparison.
Correct. That and Taylor took them to within 1 play of a chip (and some questionable calls prevented it).
Not this year or the last 2 years
the last 2 years with no free agents?
Thats the thing. You either see the Bucs intentionally holding back on players for cap or not.
If you accept that that is what they are doing and you consider the Super Bowl performance or "7th in scoring" last year, its not that hard to see the Bucs being better, especially when you now see the stark contrast between Canales and Coen
I think Canales and Bowles were sorta made for each other last year. Could pitch a beautiful game, then the next they can't figure out how to call anything right.
This year Coen is miles above Canales... (As you mentioned)
I see your point with FA, but Bowles got a shit ton of talent via the draft. The offense didn't get much help in FA either.
Bowles hasn't won any games this year with either his defense or his head coaching skills.
He's lost games. His clock management stinks.
We're winning in spite of him... And that's the main issue.
Every division has gone through it - sometimes teams take that period to build something that can be sustained for the longterm. Thats what’s going on here.
This same argument was somewhat stifled last year when the Bucs won two playoff games, even though the division sucked. Now, even though our defense is rock bottom, the offense just jerked up the window on the Super Bowl, so it matters how we handle any transition.
Ok but just logically... We aren't making the playoffs with 9 or 10 wins in any format except winning our division. It's that simple.
I get that the league ebbs and flows with divisions but that doesn't change the fact that Bowles came in and made the playoffs with 8, 9, and presumably 10 wins.
So he's playing 500 football
Every division has gone through it - sometimes teams take that period to build something that can be sustained for the longterm. Thats what’s going on here.
This same argument was somewhat stifled last year when the Bucs won two playoff games, even though the division sucked. Now, even though our defense is rock bottom, the offense just jerked up the window on the Super Bowl, so it matters how we handle any transition.
Ok but just logically... We aren't making the playoffs with 9 or 10 wins in any format except winning our division. It's that simple.
I get that the league ebbs and flows with divisions but that doesn't change the fact that Bowles came in and made the playoffs with 8, 9, and presumably 10 wins.
So he's playing 500 football
.500 football with that dead cap space.
not what you want to happen but what % do you put at Bucs removing Bowles as head coach this offseason, assuming Bucs win division on Sunday and…
A) lose first round
B) win a game but lose in next round being similar to last year
and this fully knowing the gem we have at OC who will get head coaching interviews
This team with Coen's offense really should have 11+ wins.
Bowles has literally left wins on the table...
When you start to win, expectations go up regardless of dead cap or injuries.
This team with Coen's offense really should have 11+ wins.
Bowles has literally left wins on the table...
When you start to win, expectations go up regardless of dead cap or injuries.
The Bucs the last two years left wins on the table too. Brady's last year that Bucs team should have reached ten wins. Same with last year's team because while the talent level is of a .500 ball club due to salary cap restraints they still had favorable games where they should have won.
So this year by finishing the job and actually reaching ten wins with a harder schedule and sustaining injuries to many player would be a big improvement. There were injuries during the 2022 season, and the 2023 season was injury free for the most part. But it would show that the team is evolving in a good way and progressing during a cap crunch.
Not this year or the last 2 years
the last 2 years with no free agents?
Thats the thing. You either see the Bucs intentionally holding back on players for cap or not.
If you accept that that is what they are doing and you consider the Super Bowl performance or "7th in scoring" last year, its not that hard to see the Bucs being better, especially when you now see the stark contrast between Canales and Coen
I think Canales and Bowles were sorta made for each other last year. Could pitch a beautiful game, then the next they can't figure out how to call anything right.
This year Coen is miles above Canales... (As you mentioned)
I see your point with FA, but Bowles got a shit ton of talent via the draft. The offense didn't get much help in FA either.
Bowles hasn't won any games this year with either his defense or his head coaching skills.
He's lost games. His clock management stinks.
We're winning in spite of him... And that's the main issue.
Well said.
This team with Coen's offense really should have 11+ wins.
Bowles has literally left wins on the table...
When you start to win, expectations go up regardless of dead cap or injuries.
understood. let me rephrase the question...Not does Bowles deserve to get fired...more so....do you think it will happen?
This team with Coen's offense really should have 11+ wins.
Bowles has literally left wins on the table...
When you start to win, expectations go up regardless of dead cap or injuries.
understood. let me rephrase the question...Not does Bowles deserve to get fired...more so....do you think it will happen?
If we win the division but lose in the first round: 60/40 he gets fired
If we win the first round: 20/80 he gets fired (so not getting fired)
If we make it to the NFCCG then 5/95 he gets fired
I'm hoping we promote him to front office
If we win the division but lose in the first round: 60/40 he gets fired
If we win the first round: 20/80 he gets fired (so not getting fired)
If we make it to the NFCCG then 5/95 he gets fired
I'm hoping we promote him to front office
Anything less than a NFCCG appearance should be viewed as a failure (as I said all offseason).
And, since the Glazers stated they wanted to see “improvement”, I think that’s their barometer.
