Sidenote: when considering White's avg/carry it's important to take into account that when TB is in goal-to-go/short yardage situations, he's usually the RB, which means he's often running some kind of short-yardage play anyway. Not saying he'd average a lot more than he is if he wasn't, but if he's running 10%+ of his rushes for short-yardage, that is going to have a negative effect his overall average.
You're not going to like this.
Yards per carry when you take away 3rd/4th short and goal line.
White- 4.7
Irving- 5.8
Tucker- 8.6
Tucker is the most athletic gifted runner but he has to develop the rest of his game (eg blitz package pickups and understanding soft zone as a receiver). White is basically Michael Pittman and Irving is is Aaron Stecker while Tucker is Thomas Jones.
All three different backs with different skill sets. People asking why Irving is used on returns it is because his ability to navigate small areas with agility like Stecker. White has deceptively fast straightline speed and has better balance and slashing N/S than Pittman ever did. And Tucker is just as much gifted as Jones was but Jones was a tad better at evading tacklers.
Neither Bucky, nor Tucker has the ability to be productive in the run/passing - but can also pass & run block to the level Rachaad White can.
Thats why Tucker can’t break the lineup.
Bucky is similar - and has delivered WHILE cleaning up the missed assignments/fumble issues that Tucker is still making. Some of that is just reps, but why would you pull Bucky out just to get Tucker more reps?
White is there because he may not have the pure ability to run for first downs - but he is irreplaceable right now in protection packages - and he is other-worldly in the screen game. Once you get him in space - we don’t have another back like him size/running style. Tucker gives us an embarrassment of riches - but he’s too similar to Bucky in his natural ability. Tucker just doesn’t have the mass to add any dimension to the game.
I think Tucker get a few more reps due to the nicks/dings Bucky has taken to his back & hip injuries, which means he’ll get some space to work out the assignment/fumbling issues. However, Bucky is younger and he has just been phenomenal as a rookie - he hasn’t played like a rookie since the pre-season.
Bucky’s got one of the best/most creative run schemers in Liam Coen, game-planning for his specific abilities - that means he’s integral to the explosives in the run-game planning. That isn’t going to change.
The run game is the one thing opposing defenses can’t adjust to. Their adjusting to Baker (and maybe Baker’s dinged up a bit), his tendencies and the fact that while we’re struggling with receivers who aren’t on the field (Chris) and the limitations on some like Mike’s hammy, and the slow development of McMillan - it’s the one thing the other team’s defense can’t always adjust to compensate.
The offense has evolved to a completely different offense than it was at the start of the season - without Chris and Mike - the pass game is being run from a run-first perspective - it’s become quick/fast passing, almost pre-snap on passing downs. Not much chance to allow deep shots to develop and leaning more on the screen game & utilizing Mike Evans Otton & White as primary targets in space to intermediate.
poor ol’ Tucker has just not been game-planned like Bucky has been.
Embarrassment of riches is exactly right.
I'd prefer we sit Bucky this week and keep him healthy down the stretch. Give White/Tucker a 70/30 split.
The "magic" of the Red Board
And Tucker is just as much gifted as Jones was but Jones was a tad better at evading tacklers.
You're not going to like this but Tucker is TWICE as gifted as T Jones and E Smith
That is a FACT
Jones was a career 4.0 ypc runner
Smith was a career 4.2 runner
Tucker is 8.6 YPC. (excluding 3rd downs and rainy days that end with the letter "y")
And White is a career 1.9 runner . . .(between August 16th and 19th)
checkmate
I'd prefer we sit Bucky this week and keep him healthy down the stretch. Give White/Tucker a 70/30 split.
I thought they should have rested Irving vs. the Raiders. White and Tucker would have been fine. In hindsight, Bucky didn't do too much anyway - outside of aggravating his injury. They didn't really need him vs. Oakland, but they may vs. the Chargers.
It would have been the prudent thing to do, but alas. Now, they may have to rest him against the Chargers.
I'd prefer we sit Bucky this week and keep him healthy down the stretch.
totally get that but not sure teams in the Bucs' circumstances think that way
and the Chargers game has the potential to be a blowout loss
Meanwhile, Bowles on White
“He’s pretty much a wide receiver back there, with moves and big enough to be a running back, as well,” Bowles said of White. “So he can do a lot of things. He has a lot of jobs. … He’s benefited a lot of guys being double-teamed, and he’s benefited from the fact that that he’s very good in the open field, and he has outstanding hands. And he has a very good feel for the game; he doesn’t get enough credit for how mentally smart he is when he plays a ballgame, but he’s a very smart player.”
1.7 yds before contact/car
0.6 yds before contact/car”
That is a significant difference. I mean, how many times must he have been hit at or before LOS to have a 0.6 yards before contact?
Kudos to Coen for adjusting and evolving as the season has progressed.
I'd prefer we sit Bucky this week and keep him healthy down the stretch.
totally get that but not sure teams in the Bucs' circumstances think that way
and the Chargers game has the potential to be a blowout loss
I disagree and think it will be a close game win or lose. The Bucs have only had two blowout losses this season. Broncos 26-7 which I think was fluky since the Bucs didn't look ready to play, and Ravens 41-31 which was nowhere near that close without the Bucs late points versus 2nd stringers.
The Chargers don't have anywhere near the firepower on offense that the Ravens have. If the Bucs defense plays only "NFL average" (better than usual) they have a real chance to get a win IMHO.
Bucs trotted Evans out vs Baltimore with an already pulled hamstring when we had the Falcons in 6 days so naturally they'll have Irving fly back and forth across the country with a bad back and play injured while Tucker is blocking on punt return.
I'd prefer we sit Bucky this week and keep him healthy down the stretch. Give White/Tucker a 70/30 split.
I thought they should have rested Irving vs. the Raiders. White and Tucker would have been fine. In hindsight, Bucky didn't do too much anyway - outside of aggravating his injury. They didn't really need him vs. Oakland, but they may vs. the Chargers.
It would have been the prudent thing to do, but alas. Now, they may have to rest him against the Chargers.
They haven't learned they lesson so... It seems like *some* of our injuries are coaching maleficence.
Bucs trotted Evans out vs Baltimore with an already pulled hamstring when we had the Falcons in 6 days so naturally they'll have Irving fly back and forth across the country with a bad back and play injured while Tucker is blocking on punt return.
I think you're finally right
I'd prefer we sit Bucky this week and keep him healthy down the stretch.
totally get that but not sure teams in the Bucs' circumstances think that way
and the Chargers game has the potential to be a blowout loss
I disagree and think it will be a close game win or lose.
I absolutely hope you are right and you probably are.
I am mostly concerned with the "this is the game they can lose" talk and they are very beat up and its west coast. Sometimes those kind of things combine to see the visiting team basically pack it in if/when the home team lays it on them early
The LOADED 99 team went out to Oakland on a big winning streak and Chucky put 45 up on our defense. I think the game was 21-0 at half and we even pulled players in the second half. It was that bad. As I recall, we had just won a couple critical division games and there were more after, so it was almost like the team collapsed in Oakland because the game wasn't as critical as the other ones.
Not saying this is a direct parallel
And definitely hope I am wrong!
Sidenote: when considering White's avg/carry it's important to take into account that when TB is in goal-to-go/short yardage situations, he's usually the RB, which means he's often running some kind of short-yardage play anyway. Not saying he'd average a lot more than he is if he wasn't, but if he's running 10%+ of his rushes for short-yardage, that is going to have a negative effect his overall average.
You're not going to like this.
Yards per carry when you take away 3rd/4th short and goal line.
White- 4.7
Irving- 5.8
Tucker- 8.6
Why wouldn't I like this? It's not about liking it or not anyway. You just proved my point. Taking away short yardage situations, White's avg does in fact go up, and is more than satisfactory in the NFL. It's not as high as Irving's or Tucker's, but 4.7yds/att is more than adequate in this league, no?
And again, Tucker's avg is inflated by his very small sample size. He wouldn't be averaging 8+yds/att if he was getting RB1 reps all season long.
And finally, White isn't the RB1 because he's the best rusher. He's the best pass-protector and probably the best receiver. It's the entire package of he can run the ball well enough, he blocks better than the other two, and he has not only the best hands of the RBs, but he gets open, and catches passes in the scramble drill better than the other two.
