Eh, in one of the replays it looked like the ball was moving after Thielen hit the ground. And I like Thielen, always have., since he was back in MIN. I kind of hoped KC would grab him back then. So I would give him the benefit of the doubt, and maybe the ball wasn't moving, but it looked like it to me. But yeah, they also missed two FGs.
but they had no business even having a chance to win the game.
doesnt that just reinforce the point of the thread?
If all those things happen its 19-10 at half and then the Panthers make it 23 . . . so at the end of the 3rd quarter is 23-10 because the offense hasnt been able to generate anything except the one touchdown. This is an offense that was putting up 30 points in games BEFORE INJURY
Down 23-10 the Bucs would then trade touchdowns and the offense would again stall twice to yield FGs
Thats the entire point. It should be OBVIOUS that the offense UNDERPerformed. FULL STOP. That we should all be able to agree on, but nearly the entire focus is the defense post-game. I am only saying that the D actually over performed too (relative to its recent poor play), but even if we are to erase all of that (distances dont matter on FG kicks?) the Bucs offense still doesn't get it done. So, would that be on the defense? the two 4 qtr field goals instead of TDs or maybe a single TD?
Maybe I am missing something? I mean games are reactrive so they dont play out as anyone is describing, but you can go on and one with "what if"scenarios but all that starts with a BETTER than normal defensive outcome and a LESSER than normal OFFENSIVE performance until the very end, but that even comes at the hands of the defense first?
This has been noted before, but...It's important to remember the Panthers kicker missed TWO FGs he usually doesn't miss, and a Thielen TD which clearly was a TD was ruled a no-catch and resulted in a FG. That's 10 points the Panthers should have had, and the game doesn't even make it to OT. Then Nelson forces the Hubbard fumble in OT when the Panthers were in FG range. Yes, the Bucs drove down and won the game, but they had no business even having a chance to win the game.
This is how I see it
This has been noted before, but...It's important to remember the Panthers kicker missed TWO FGs he usually doesn't miss, and a Thielen TD which clearly was a TD was ruled a no-catch and resulted in a FG. That's 10 points the Panthers should have had, and the game doesn't even make it to OT. Then Nelson forces the Hubbard fumble in OT when the Panthers were in FG range. Yes, the Bucs drove down and won the game, but they had no business even having a chance to win the game.
This is how I see it
Yup
This has been noted before, but...It's important to remember the Panthers kicker missed TWO FGs he usually doesn't miss, and a Thielen TD which clearly was a TD was ruled a no-catch and resulted in a FG. That's 10 points the Panthers should have had, and the game doesn't even make it to OT. Then Nelson forces the Hubbard fumble in OT when the Panthers were in FG range. Yes, the Bucs drove down and won the game, but they had no business even having a chance to win the game.
This is how I see it
Yup
https://www.pewterreport.com/community/the-red-board/running-back-depth-2/
This has been noted before, but...It's important to remember the Panthers kicker missed TWO FGs he usually doesn't miss, and a Thielen TD which clearly was a TD was ruled a no-catch and resulted in a FG. That's 10 points the Panthers should have had, and the game doesn't even make it to OT. Then Nelson forces the Hubbard fumble in OT when the Panthers were in FG range. Yes, the Bucs drove down and won the game, but they had no business even having a chance to win the game.
This is how I see it
Yup
Agreed.
So if we warp the actual outcome to increase the PANTHERS score, Coen’s offense looks better?
makes sense
:-)
So if we warp the actual outcome to increase the PANTHERS score, Coen’s offense looks better?
makes sense
:-)
I think Bowles defense played "not awful".
The RedZone defense plus a few 3 and outs were solid.
He was pretty bad when it mattered most and very predictable... But did just enough vs a top 10 worst offense.
Just fyi, Baker went 8-11 and 114 yds to finish the game. I get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more, but you can't just abandon the passing game in the NFL.
Carolina is #32 in run defense and we averaged 6.6 yards per carry on 1st and 10. You obviously don't "get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more". The amount of passes on 1st and 10, 2nd and medium and 3rd and short nearly cost us the season. I said in another thread that with this offensive line and the bad run defeneses on the schedule we can just run our way to the playoffs.
So if we warp the actual outcome to increase the PANTHERS score, Coen’s offense looks better?
makes sense
:-)
I think Bowles defense played "not awful".
The RedZone defense plus a few 3 and outs were solid.
He was pretty bad when it mattered most and very predictable... But did just enough vs a top 10 worst offense.
"Not awful" is playing UP over recent performance.
I am NOT saying the defense was good or great. Not sure how many times I have to repeat that lol
I am just saying that comparing the two sides IN THAT GAME the offense PLAYED DOWN most of the game (obvious, right?) and the defense PLAYED UP from its shitty performance over four games before the Giants.
Or, as you would say it "not awful." Maybe it was having T Thomas and JJ Russell in the lineup :-)
The defense against the Panthers was like the defense all last year - lots of yards and making a young QB look good - but mostly holding a team from scoring TDs and doing so with an offense that was putting the defense in a hole a lot (e.g. the punt, the int).
* * *
I get that everyone - myself included - hates the style of defense (off corners, soft zone) and the play calling (eg zone blitzing), but just to give some perspective LAST SEASON Bowles implied that all the soft zone was because his safety (Ryan Neal) could not cover the middle of the field in man.
They are now bringing that safety BACK . . . . to play LINEBACKER (dime defense).
That is because Whitehead (Neal's replacement) is out and replaced by Edwards who is also now out, so they were playing with T Thomas at Nickel so that Izien could go to safety.
Someone (you?) said that we are not getting guys off the street because Bowles defense requires people familiar with the system. Bringing back Neal proves that point and that is a PROBLEM
Just fyi, Baker went 8-11 and 114 yds to finish the game. I get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more, but you can't just abandon the passing game in the NFL.
Carolina is #32 in run defense and we averaged 6.6 yards per carry on 1st and 10. You obviously don't "get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more". The amount of passes on 1st and 10, 2nd and medium and 3rd and short nearly cost us the season. I said in another thread that with this offensive line and the bad run defeneses on the schedule we can just run our way to the playoffs.
JC, running the ball more, sure. You said 400 yds based on 7.9ypc (when you remove goal line) and, I guess, have Irving run even more than the record carries he ran . . and then throw in Tucker and white to get to an historic run-pass ratio?
This is why i laughed initially. You dont have to go to that kind of laughable extreme to criticize Coen
Just fyi, Baker went 8-11 and 114 yds to finish the game. I get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more, but you can't just abandon the passing game in the NFL.
Carolina is #32 in run defense and we averaged 6.6 yards per carry on 1st and 10. You obviously don't "get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more". The amount of passes on 1st and 10, 2nd and medium and 3rd and short nearly cost us the season. I said in another thread that with this offensive line and the bad run defeneses on the schedule we can just run our way to the playoffs.
JC, running the ball more, sure. You said 400 yds based on 7.9ypc (when you remove goal line) and, I guess, have Irving run even more than the record carries he ran . . and then throw in Tucker and white to get to an historic run-pass ratio?
This is why i laughed initially. You dont have to go to that kind of laughable extreme to criticize Coen
Yea, "throwing in" a RB who averages 6.3ypc vs the #32 run defense probably would have been a better idea than throwing INTs on 1st and 10 and 3rd and 1 and getting sacked out of FG on 2nd and 6 in OT because you're in god damn EMPTY. Historic is a good word because that's what it should have been. We had that much of an advantage moving them.
Just fyi, Baker went 8-11 and 114 yds to finish the game. I get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more, but you can't just abandon the passing game in the NFL.
Carolina is #32 in run defense and we averaged 6.6 yards per carry on 1st and 10. You obviously don't "get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more". The amount of passes on 1st and 10, 2nd and medium and 3rd and short nearly cost us the season. I said in another thread that with this offensive line and the bad run defeneses on the schedule we can just run our way to the playoffs.
JC, running the ball more, sure. You said 400 yds based on 7.9ypc (when you remove goal line) and, I guess, have Irving run even more than the record carries he ran . . and then throw in Tucker and white to get to an historic run-pass ratio?
This is why i laughed initially. You dont have to go to that kind of laughable extreme to criticize Coen
Yea, "throwing in" a RB who averages 6.3ypc vs the #32 run defense probably would have been a better idea than throwing INTs on 1st and 10 and 3rd and 1 and getting sacked out of FG on 2nd and 6 in OT because you're in god damn EMPTY. Historic is a good word because that's what it should have been. We had that much of an advantage moving them.
uh … okay
So if we warp the actual outcome to increase the PANTHERS score, Coen’s offense looks better?
makes sense
:-)
I think Bowles defense played "not awful".
The RedZone defense plus a few 3 and outs were solid.
He was pretty bad when it mattered most and very predictable... But did just enough vs a top 10 worst offense.
"Not awful" is playing UP over recent performance.
I am NOT saying the defense was good or great. Not sure how many times I have to repeat that lol
I am just saying that comparing the two sides IN THAT GAME the offense PLAYED DOWN most of the game (obvious, right?) and the defense PLAYED UP from its shitty performance over four games before the Giants.
Or, as you would say it "not awful." Maybe it was having T Thomas and JJ Russell in the lineup :-)
The defense against the Panthers was like the defense all last year - lots of yards and making a young QB look good - but mostly holding a team from scoring TDs and doing so with an offense that was putting the defense in a hole a lot (e.g. the punt, the int).
* * *
I get that everyone - myself included - hates the style of defense (off corners, soft zone) and the play calling (eg zone blitzing), but just to give some perspective LAST SEASON Bowles implied that all the soft zone was because his safety (Ryan Neal) could not cover the middle of the field in man.
They are now bringing that safety BACK . . . . to play LINEBACKER (dime defense).
That is because Whitehead (Neal's replacement) is out and replaced by Edwards who is also now out, so they were playing with T Thomas at Nickel so that Izien could go to safety.
Someone (you?) said that we are not getting guys off the street because Bowles defense requires people familiar with the system. Bringing back Neal proves that point and that is a PROBLEM
I think you're confusing me with other posters. I'm not trying to make this a right/wrong pissing contest. I'm not trying to attack you... I see your points but I disagree with some of them.
That's all...
Just fyi, Baker went 8-11 and 114 yds to finish the game. I get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more, but you can't just abandon the passing game in the NFL.
Carolina is #32 in run defense and we averaged 6.6 yards per carry on 1st and 10. You obviously don't "get that people wanted to run the ball a lot more". The amount of passes on 1st and 10, 2nd and medium and 3rd and short nearly cost us the season. I said in another thread that with this offensive line and the bad run defeneses on the schedule we can just run our way to the playoffs.
JC, running the ball more, sure. You said 400 yds based on 7.9ypc (when you remove goal line) and, I guess, have Irving run even more than the record carries he ran . . and then throw in Tucker and white to get to an historic run-pass ratio?
This is why i laughed initially. You dont have to go to that kind of laughable extreme to criticize Coen
Yea, "throwing in" a RB who averages 6.3ypc vs the #32 run defense probably would have been a better idea than throwing INTs on 1st and 10 and 3rd and 1 and getting sacked out of FG on 2nd and 6 in OT because you're in god damn EMPTY. Historic is a good word because that's what it should have been. We had that much of an advantage moving them.
Not sure Bucky could have taken more carries based on his size and hip stinger.
So now you gotta debate White vs Tucker.
If you go with White you probably aren't going to maintain that average but maybe.
If you go with Tucker it's probably the better choice but he is coming in cold (or fresh however you see it) and my worry would be a fumble. That plus pissing off White and making him third chair instead of second.
Overall, Coen delivered when it mattered most. We had to throw with 30 seconds left...
The main criticism I have of him late were those god awful runs on the goal line...
