I'm more so pissed at Licht for choosing Bowles over him when it's clear as fucking day the offense carried the defense.
Agreed...but they were NEVER going to get rid of Bowles unless they fell apart down the stretch. While we all wish Coen would have been promoted, firing Bowles could have caused HUGE issues in the locker room which could have derailed a season.
I think the Bucs FO dragged their feet on a decision with all their coaches this off season, so now they have to roll with Bowles and find new coaches.
The new OC is going to be walking into a gold mine for sure so that is a silver lining compared to 2023.
I'm more so pissed at Licht for choosing Bowles over him when it's clear as fucking day the offense carried the defense.
Agreed...but they were NEVER going to get rid of Bowles unless they fell apart down the stretch. While we all wish Coen would have been promoted, firing Bowles could have caused HUGE issues in the locker room which could have derailed a season.
yeah Bucs hands were tied. The Players would be upset and other reputable coaches would look at the franchise...like damn....dude won 3 division titles in a row, 2 after Brady retired...and your franchise sucks...and that wasn't good enough? Having a knee jerk reaction to promote some rookie coordinator to head coach after one good year is not what good franchises do.
as i posted a few post up, this is arguably the most successful the franchise has been (2020 to 2024) with only the (97-02) period being debatable. Licht said consistency is good.
Coen called some good plays but let's look at 2022 versus 2024 from a talent perspective
QB - Baker '24 version > Brady '22 version
RB - Bucky > Lenny
WR - Evans, Godwin, McMillian = Evans, Godwin, Gage; while the 2022 team was a healthy and younger bunch, the squad heading into 2025 could be lethal
TE - Otton '24 version > Otton '22 version
Bucs offensive line '24 version > Bucs offense line '22 version
as you can see in nearly all categories, Bucs are much better and it's not even close. Coen crafting up plays certainly had something to do with it...but much like some loved Canales, we were able to easily replace him; i am sure we will get a qualified enough coordinator to call plays. The only way i'd lose hope is if they promote somebody from within but given Licht/Bowles have chosen 2 coordinators that have gone on to become head coaches the very next season, im willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
According to Prisco it was about money and not Baalke, not sure I believe that, probably both.
According to Breer, Licht asked Coen what he needed to stay, Coen asked for a number. The Glazers agreed to the number then Coen didn't sign the contract, instead he asked for more money.
It wasn't about money.
If you receive what you are asking and you are happy with the people you work with you stick with the deal. Coen didn't like the structure of the organization so he bailed because the Jags do not have a GM and he can put his mark on the organization the way he wants as a head coach that buys the groceries.
We have every right to be pissed, but it's also a business.
I'm pissed at Coen for how he (allegedly) handled it.
I'm more so pissed at Licht for choosing Bowles over him when it's clear as fucking day the offense carried the defense.
Risk/reward - medium risk/high reward if we hire Coen and move on from Bowles as a head coach.
Medium risk/low reward if we fire Bowles and promote Coen. The risk being the locker room.
That risk could be mitigated by promoted Bowles to front office.
Look... Licht had a very rocky start with the team but he's been damn good for 5 years. So I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt despite some questionable moves in the draft and coaching circle.
But my gut tells me this will set us back 5 years and we will see a regression (albeit small) in the offense next year.
Continuity with Bowles isn't valuable to me but I guess it is to Licht.
Continuity on offense is far more valuable to me but I guess it isn't to Licht.
Interesting take but youre leaving out one reason why the Bucs might be extra angry and that would be, HYPOTHETICALLY SPEAKING, that Coen went about things in a way that prevented them from what they would have to viewed as a last resort, which was to fire Bowles to elevate Coen.
This is actually addressed by Jeff Darlington but in the opposite direction to your post because he's focused on the clear cultural difference between the Bucs and Jags.
He sort of LAUDS the Bucs (as people should) for being the kind of organization that did NOT "win the race" to fire someone to hire Coen. In his view (right or wrong) firing Baalke to hire Coen is consistent with the ass-backwards, incoherent leadership and LACK of culture of the Jags. Because only that kind of jumbled organization would without hesitation jettison Baalke to hire Coen, after having stood by Baalke for so long, long enough to even have Baalke participate in the first interview with Coen lol. That is how F'D up and DESPERATE the Jags are.
By comparison, the Bucs were much more like to ONLY see firing Bowles for Coen as a LAST RESORT and that is EVEN WITH a recent history of Arians being pushed aside by Brady (Darlington's suggestion, not mine). The Jag way is not the NOT the Bucs culture because the Bucs are a very well run and respected team. In short, they did the RIGHT THING as one would expect. Or, at least TRIED TO.
who knows, but that makes sense if you just think it through.
You probably struggle with that thought though because - right or wrong - your CORE BELIEF is that "Bowles is incompetent." You may be right about that BUT the Bucs probably do NOT share that belief. But if you just accept, for the dicussion, that the Bucs do not it makes sense that they would do what they apparently did which was PROACTIVELY go to Coen to arrange to keep him and Bowles. We know they did this because of Breer's reporting and even Coen has referred to it as STRONG ARMING him.
So maybe this is why they are so angry NOW because they did their best OUT OF THE GATE ato keep both and Coen AGREED.
That is the key point. Coen agreed. If he does NOT maybe they do fire Bowles for Coen, but he AGREED even with a condition that he NOT take the second interview. . . but then he secretly went to the Jags
Darlington's point: no GOOD deed goes unpunished. The Bucs probably did the RIGHT thing and paid a price because the other side -- Coen and Jags - were not worthy of the trust. They stood by what they probably thought was best INSTEAD OF JUST FIRING BOWLES (like the Jags might) and it bit them
Just one way to look at it. Who knows? But, of the two cultures everyone should want a team like Darlington describes the Bucs and NOT a team like the Jags, even if it didnt work out this time
According to Prisco it was about money and not Baalke, not sure I believe that, probably both.
According to Breer, Licht asked Coen what he needed to stay, Coen asked for a number. The Glazers agreed to the number then Coen didn't sign the contract, instead he asked for more money.
It wasn't about money.
If you receive what you are asking and you are happy with the people you work with you stick with the deal. Coen didn't like the structure of the organization so he bailed because the Jags do not have a GM and he can put his mark on the organization the way he wants as a head coach that buys the groceries.
I am Prisco fan but like you dont necessarily agree with him here either.
Coen happened to get an offer that no one in his position could refuse - money, GM input etc - and he got that because the Jags are DESPERATE
He has full control of the coaches he hires and the players they bring in. Even BB wanted that and did not receive that which is why he is coaching in college now or will soon at NC.
The Jags are the worst team in the NFL over the period of Khan's ownership and yet he sees himself as best positioned to lead European expansion so he needs them to win. Hes redoing the stadium there next year . .. he has to right the ship QUICKLY so he's spending the $$$
Be intersting to know how other NFL owner feel about the Coen thing because they've long been trying to keep coaching salaries down
Bowles has won 3 division championships in a row by going essentially 500 over that span.
In any other division that doesn't get it done.
I view this as fool's gold. I view Bowles as a bottom-tier coach.
I'm not in the camp of making excuses for Licht but the points made certainly are fair to bring up.
Anyone that watched the team play, saw that the defense was the problem.
Licht saw this and decided to stick with Bowles and lose Coen.
That's how this offseason will be judged for better or for worse.
Licht saw this and decided to stick with Bowles and lose Coen.
maybe next season you blend both names to FireLichtandBowles2025?
Kidding but i think the most you could say at this point is that Licht (and the Glazers?) lost Coen. I dont think Licht (or the Glazers) "decided" to lose Coen because their actions are exactly the opposite.
And their anger now is newsworthy
Licht saw this and decided to stick with Bowles and lose Coen.
maybe next season you blend both names to FireLichtandBowles2025?
Kidding but i think the most you could say at this point is that Licht (and the Glazers?) lost Coen. I dont think Licht (or the Glazers) "decided" to lose Coen because their actions are exactly the opposite.
And their anger now is newsworthy
Sorta... The Bucs lost 2 weeks ago. There was a window to move on from Bowles right there and they didn't do it immediately. This left the door open.
It's naive of them to think Coen would be loyal after 1 year when another team is willing to give him what he wants.
The play was there... Fans were calling for it. They chose another route. Those are the facts.
It's a huge whiff. Everything you're saying makes logical sense but I still revert back to the mentality of where the buck stops... Pun intended
Move on from Bowles, who's made the playoffs 3 years in a row and won the Super Bowl as DC, for a 1 year OC who blew the playoff game?
Move on from Bowles, who's made the playoffs 3 years in a row and won the Super Bowl as DC, for a 1 year OC who blew the playoff game?
well to be clear baker and Barton blew it
I'm less worried by the hour. There are more fish in the sea. We have all the pieces on offense and can find someone who can integrate the previous system and can call some plays.
