It's surprising he didn't run PA on first more in the first half since he wanted to go deep
second drive they do.
They go RPO to WR screen to Tez . . play killed though by a false start. 1st and 15th is a pass to Evans but shotgun. No PA on 1st and 15 lol
they are force to go THREE STRAIGHT PASSES, the last being a screen to White that is completely blown up because Heck is so slow.
Third drive, PA on the big play. Thye run White on furst down and then PA pass to Evans one on one for the INTERFERENCE. Troy Aikman "thats what they need to do against this depleted secondary."
That drive ends with what should be an easy first down pass to Shepard that is instead tipped
Its easy to see why Bowles, Grizz and Wirfs say run more They came out with a run where White rams the tackler back and gains 5. Great, set the tone, but then they basically go away to passing.
I don't have an issue running more but the play design is pretty vanilla. I miss Coen's pony and other unique plays. Jet sweep etc
This could be the week. Tucker Returns!
There’s no comparison. The Serpent had a healthy offense. Grizz has had to scramble every week. The season is done as the backups are so bad. Licht is great at finding starters in the draft but horrible at finding quality backups. We are watching that failure every week. Sad, but true.
There’s no comparison. The Serpent had a healthy offense. Grizz has had to scramble every week. The season is done as the backups are so bad. Licht is great at finding starters in the draft but horrible at finding quality backups. We are watching that failure every week. Sad, but true.
Coen dealt with plenty of injuries
There’s no comparison. The Serpent had a healthy offense. Grizz has had to scramble every week. The season is done as the backups are so bad. Licht is great at finding starters in the draft but horrible at finding quality backups. We are watching that failure every week. Sad, but true.
Coen dealt with plenty of injuries
Well, just another way to look at it . . ..
the standout difference between the two (Coen v Grizz) so far has been the run game.
I think thats where you would expect the difference because Coen is a run game whizz - extremely creative and especially with in-game adjustments - BUT Grizz has also had no Irving and an O-line (that was mostly very healthy for Coen) that has bene so injured that they have shuffled MULTIPLE players positions. Thats shockingly injured.
Because so much of BOTH offenses overall success is/was tied to running, the impact of the difference in run games has been significant. Its just that Mayfield AND EGBUKA have covered it with incredible play. When that went away, we got drubbed by the Lions, notably with the O-line getting crushed and throwing 50 plus times.
The Saints have a pretty weak run defense, so will be interesting to see this upcoming game plan.
There’s no comparison. The Serpent had a healthy offense. Grizz has had to scramble every week. The season is done as the backups are so bad. Licht is great at finding starters in the draft but horrible at finding quality backups. We are watching that failure every week. Sad, but true.
Coen dealt with plenty of injuries
Coen never dealt with a running back injury. Wirfs missed zero games with Coen. In fact our OL stayed pretty much intact with Coen. Coen never had 1,2,3,4 WR out at the same time.
Grizz is doing a fine job.
Wirfs missed zero games with Coen. In fact our OL stayed pretty much intact with Coen
Wirfs DID miss time under Coen.
Goedeke missed MULTIPLE games.
Barton missed time as well.
If you need to make shit up to bolster your argument, you should probably just sit it out.
I don't have an issue running more but the play design is pretty vanilla. I miss Coen's pony and other unique plays. Jet sweep etc
Agreed.
That being said, I can't help but chuckle at Todd's comments about Baker throwing the ball 50+ times, as if it wasn't a direct result of game script.
28 of his drop backs were in the 4th quarter, down multiple scores.
Wirfs missed zero games with Coen. In fact our OL stayed pretty much intact with Coen
Wirfs DID miss time under Coen.
Goedeke missed MULTIPLE games.
Barton missed time as well.
If you need to make shit up to bolster your argument, you should probably just sit it out.
Cult-like talk from him... I envy his homerism to some extent...
Just making up injuries (or lack thereof)
Evans and Godwin missed significant time last year. Otton missed time. White missed time. The line had plenty of injuries... I think Baker played through some injuries as well.
Coen didn't have Egbuka either.
Why are we (some of us) trying to diminish what Coen did and what Coen is going in Jax, while exaggerating Grizz?
Both have produced a ton of points. Both dealt with injuries.
Grizz will get better and his run game has to improve.
Coen needs to build the roster in Jax and change the culture. A 9 or 10 win season and playoffs birth would arguably put him in COTY contention
I don't have an issue running more but the play design is pretty vanilla. I miss Coen's pony and other unique plays. Jet sweep etc
Agreed.
That being said, I can't help but chuckle at Todd's comments about Baker throwing the ball 50+ times, as if it wasn't a direct result of game script.
28 of his drop backs were in the 4th quarter, down multiple scores.
Both things can be true. Two losses, both 40+ passes both BEHIND so as you correctly state game script plays a big part. But, 5 wins all sub 40 passes, I think.
But both are right because Bowles comment was about PATIENCE and that LACK of patience shows up early in the game, not just in the 4th quarter.
It shows up most clearly on 2nd and medium (4-6) where either run or pass is an option. And also on 1st and 10.
Take out the 4th quarter (as you point out almost all passing out of NEED) and through the first 3 quarters the Bucs pass on every 2nd and medium? Four of them, I think. Bowles point with patience is these could all be runs. Or some of them. In fact, in many cases there was successful run before the play. The same shows up with 1st and 10. In the first half, for example, both turnovers are 1st down passes. Both punts are drives that start with 1st down passes, I think. Some followed by 6 and 7 yard runs on the second down. So, if one of those 4 series is a FG, you go into the half down 1 score (8) instead of 2(11). WE GET THE BALL TO START THE 2ND HALF AND SCORE A TD. Down 9 to 14. One FG on those 4 series and the 2point play maybe doesnt even happen but its to tie. So, tts not the balance stat (pass v run) its the impact those 2nd and medium and 1st and 10 pass over run choices have on the way the game plays out.
As you know better than most, 1st down runs are often criticized here. Fire (for example) would call running on 2nd and 5 less than ideal, almost playing for "3rd down." In 2022 we threw almost 70% of the time and no one thought that was too much. "Bowles must have made Canales run" (Bowles is making Carroll's point when he says PATIENCE )POINT: there is a fan bias toward passing, but RUNNING helps win games. Its just not popular, especially with the "analytics" crowd, unless and until you have something like TUCKER 4th quarter in NO last season. In that game we were blowing the Saints out and then threw 3 picks in one quarter, I think. Coen's lack of patience. Same as our two turnover this game on 1st down passes.
The game beings with White RAMMING their DB back for 5 yards. The next play should go right back with White to keep setting the tone OF MATCHING PHYSICAL INTENSITY. Most here would criticize that as "establishing the run." Wirfs disagrees. Bowles too.
You are right that the "game script" contributed to much of the passing attempts, BUT SO DID THE EARLY GAME CHOICES.
Why are we (some of us) trying to diminish what Coen did and what Coen is going in Jax, while exaggerating Grizz?
Yeah.
I don’t get it.
Why are we (some of us) trying to diminish what Coen did
That would be weird because the Lions game we just came off stands out as why we miss Coen, a point Bowles even made (indirectly) in his post-game because he said Grizz not only needed to be more patient (true) but he also needed to change up the run plays if, for example, "power" isn't working.
We definitely miss Coen the only question is whether its just Coen run plays or is it Coen run plays, run discipline, and injuries (Irving, O-line)? It has to be a mix of all of them because, as I pointed out before, Grizz has the run plays, like the pony, so he could just run them. There must be a reason and my guess would be personnel more than most other factors.
who knows how Coen turns out as a HC, but one thing that should be beyond doubt is his ability to create a run game. Just look at Jax.
I don't have an issue running more but the play design is pretty vanilla. I miss Coen's pony and other unique plays. Jet sweep etc
Agreed.
That being said, I can't help but chuckle at Todd's comments about Baker throwing the ball 50+ times, as if it wasn't a direct result of game script.
28 of his drop backs were in the 4th quarter, down multiple scores.
Both things can be true. Two losses, both 40+ passes both BEHIND so as you correctly state game script plays a big part. But, 5 wins all sub 40 passes, I think.
But both are right because Bowles comment was about PATIENCE and that LACK of patience shows up early in the game, not just in the 4th quarter.
It shows up most clearly on 2nd and medium (4-6) where either run or pass is an option. And also on 1st and 10.
Take out the 4th quarter (as you point out almost all passing out of NEED) and through the first 3 quarters the Bucs pass on every 2nd and medium? Four of them, I think. Bowles point with patience is these could all be runs. Or some of them. In fact, in many cases there was successful run before the play. The same shows up with 1st and 10. In the first half, for example, both turnovers are 1st down passes. Both punts are drives that start with 1st down passes, I think. Some followed by 6 and 7 yard runs on the second down. So, if one of those 4 series is a FG, you go into the half down 1 score (8) instead of 2(11). WE GET THE BALL TO START THE 2ND HALF AND SCORE A TD. Down 9 to 14. One FG on those 4 series and the 2point play maybe doesnt even happen but its to tie. So, tts not the balance stat (pass v run) its the impact those 2nd and medium and 1st and 10 pass over run choices have on the way the game plays out.
As you know better than most, 1st down runs are often criticized here. Fire (for example) would call running on 2nd and 5 less than ideal, almost playing for "3rd down." In 2022 we threw almost 70% of the time and no one thought that was too much. "Bowles must have made Canales run" (Bowles is making Carroll's point when he says PATIENCE )POINT: there is a fan bias toward passing, but RUNNING helps win games. Its just not popular, especially with the "analytics" crowd, unless and until you have something like TUCKER 4th quarter in NO last season. In that game we were blowing the Saints out and then threw 3 picks in one quarter, I think. Coen's lack of patience. Same as our two turnover this game on 1st down passes.
The game beings with White RAMMING their DB back for 5 yards. The next play should go right back with White to keep setting the tone OF MATCHING PHYSICAL INTENSITY. Most here would criticize that as "establishing the run." Wirfs disagrees. Bowles too.
You are right that the "game script" contributed to much of the passing attempts, BUT SO DID THE EARLY GAME CHOICES.
If you look at the drive stats, the Bucs NEVER followed a run with a run, even when the first run was 7 yards. That is one thing that really stands out from Coen. Oft en tiumes we alos went DEEP in the short yardage situation created by the good run. Grizz barely seemed to call the quick hitting cross etc.