didn't he call plays for the rams?
No, but he did for Kentucky for a few seasons. McVay calls the plays for the Rams.
didn't he call plays for the rams? Hell, his resume is veteran like compared to CanalesWe know he called one game, possibly 4, in the NFL that season.
That’s it.
Sorry, been a Bucs fan a long time. I don’t agree with firing a coach who has been plagued by injuries - and hasn’t had the cap space to build both sides of the ball. That Super Bowl defense was stocked full, he hasn’t had that since. He could not back-fill JPP & Shaq, or upgrade/replace the DB’s.
We’re just now getting our cap space cleared. He & Licht took a chance on this season knowing we were thin at Edge, Corner & ILB. That is on them.
We’re angry because we had a lot of potential through 6 games, but until the Ravens game, we’d had the worst attrition on defense, that’s where we are now. It’s not so much the scheme, it’s the lack of available talent on game day.
Some of that is on Licht, mid-season trades are still an option.
Sorry, been a Bucs fan a long time. I don’t agree with firing a coach who has been plagued by injuries - and hasn’t had the cap space to build both sides of the ball. That Super Bowl defense was stocked full, he hasn’t had that since. He could not back-fill JPP & Shaq, or upgrade/replace the DB’s.
We’re just now getting our cap space cleared. He & Licht took a chance on this season knowing we were thin at Edge, Corner & ILB. That is on them.
We’re angry because we had a lot of potential through 6 games, but until the Ravens game, we’d had the worst attrition on defense, that’s where we are now. It’s not so much the scheme, it’s the lack of available talent on game day.
Some of that is on Licht, mid-season trades are still an option.
Hey, White Tiger. Good post.
I don't want him fired for those reasons. I want him fired for the number of head scratchers he seems to do on regular basis. That defensive performance against the Chiefs in the Super Bowl is really the lone game I can recall that he actually called a good game and the prep work heading into that game was spot on. The rest of his tenure here has been suspect in my opinion.
You are right, this team has a ton of injuries in key positions but that is just window-dressing to me for an already suspect coach. It's easy to point to those guys seeing the field right now that shouldn't, but that talent on the field didn't call a fake punt when the Falcons were more than prepared for it and the field position they were at. That talent on the field didn't leave Godwin in during mop up time and inevitably led to him getting hurt when his night should have been over against the Ravens. That talent on the field didn't leave Evans in after he was already hobbled when he should have been pulled immediately after scoring the initial touchdown against the Ravens. Those are just the most recent examples of poor decisions by a head coach. I could probably find twenty more since he was brought to Tampa.
I have never liked him at any position or level. Felt like he was always overvalued, but I agree, he isn't going to be fired any time soon and us armchair guys (like me) will continue to call for his job on message boards.
He's been a coordinator for eight games.That is the rub. Coen isn't ready to be a HC. You can't hire a new HC and force him to keep the OC, and if the OC stays then he's not beholden to the HC. The new HC knows that he's working with an OC who is popular with the front office, and he has no control over, so he's basically just a placeholder until the OC is ready to take over. Nobody worth their salt would take the job under those conditions.@badabingbucs well if we fire Todd . We lose or OC who I like . And most like we for sure lose Godwin who maybe tired of the OC switching .
So to those who want Bowles fired, are you choosing to...
A) Elevate Coen to the HC position after only one year as OC.
B) Clean house.
?
what's this assumption that Coen isn't ready to be Head Coach? says who?
didn't he call plays for the rams? Hell, his resume is veteran like compared to Canales
Canales was trained for years by a legendary HC to be a HC
I don’t agree with firing a coach who has been plagued by injuries
They didn't lose vs Atlanta twice, Denver, or Baltimore because they were plagued by injuries. They lost for reasons related to bad head coaching or bad defensive coaching. The average score of the opposing team in those four games was 33.5 points.
Bowles is a good DC. He's just not a good HC/DC.
I think it's players, but these are the players Bowles chose to go to war with. I really don't believe Bowles went to Licht and said "I need more help at X, Y and Z positions" and Licht said, "Sorry Todd, nothing I can do." I just don't think it went like that. Either A) Bowles chose to have loyalty to his guys from camp and to ride or die with his guys even including practice squad. Or B) there is some overall plan which Bowles is fully participating from the start in where the Bucs are rebuilding from within, getting out from under the cap hell, and they aren't going to detour from that plan come hell or high water. Either way, Bowles is a full participant in this situation we are in where we have UDFAs and special teamers who just aren't getting the job done when they are expected to actually play real football downs.I don’t agree with firing a coach who has been plagued by injuries
They didn't lose vs Atlanta twice, Denver, or Baltimore because they were plagued by injuries. They lost for reasons related to bad head coaching or bad defensive coaching. The average score of the opposing team in those four games was 33.5 points.
Bowles is a good DC. He's just not a good HC/DC.
Knowing the way the Bucs work I just find it hard to believe that it's a simple matter of Jason Licht hamstringing Bowles. Bowles and Licht are a team, so Bowles has accountability for where we're at.
B) there is some overall plan which Bowles is fully participating from the start in where the Bucs are rebuilding from within, getting out from under the cap hell, and they aren't going to detour from that plan come hell or high water.
This
They threw Bowles into the HC position very late because of Brady's crazy reversal and so he took over a team in some disarray and did so without his own coaches.
At that point EVERYONE knows whats going on. Licht, Bowles, Arians and the Glazers. They all know that almost NO experienced HC candidate is taking that job IN MARCH to go for one last try for Brady with a somewhat diminished roster (compared to the SB) and then rebuild and get out from all the dead money over the remainder of the likely HC contract. NO FREE AGENTS, draft and develop only and even get rid of some guys (eg Davis) over the remainder of the HC's contract. NOPE . . .ESPECIALLY NOT IN MARCH
So Bowles got a FIVE year deal. And the truth is he has been a SUCCESSFUL part of that plan all along. MORE SUCCESSFUL than anyone (especially on the Red Board) anticipated
AND a big part part of that 2023 success was the OC and the QB he recruited and hired. Another HUGE part of that success in 2023 was very limited injuries. As anyone who knows averages could tell you that was not very likely to happen again this year. It has not.
But, his contract is much closer to the end so it will come down to how the rest of the season plays out.
I remember a game during the 2022 season when the Bucs lead by Tom Brady lost to the Steelers 20-18 in Pittsburgh. The Steelers QB was Mitch Trubisky. The point of my post is that if I remember correctly, the entire defensive backfield for the Steelers was out injured for that game. Tomlin and Co coached up their younger guys and they went out and beat Tom Brady and the Bucs. Great coaching vs so-so coaching is the difference. I have always respected Mike Tomlin and his ability to get the best from his players.
BTW, the trivia question on the ESPN show "Get Up" yesterday was: Which NFL franchise has the best winning percentage since the 1970 merger? Answer: Pittsburgh Steelers.
Chuck Noll and Bill Cowher played a big part in that record along with Mike Tomlin.
I remember a game during the 2022 season when the Bucs lead by Tom Brady lost to the Steelers 20-18 in Pittsburgh. The Steelers QB was Mitch Trubisky. The point of my post is that if I remember correctly, the entire defensive backfield for the Steelers was out injured for that game. Tomlin and Co coached up their younger guys and they went out and beat Tom Brady and the Bucs. Great coaching vs so-so coaching is the difference. I have always respected Mike Tomlin and his ability to get the best from his players.
well that's just it...Mike Tomlin is a hall of fame head coach - easily top 5 in todays NFL. I mean the Steelers are 6-2, have two journeyman QBs who failed miserably in their prior stints.
as Buc Fans, we can't ask for a top 5 head coach...but at the very least, would be good to have a top 15 head coach...and that...Bowles is not.
Bruce Arians was top 15. Jon Gruden before him and Dungy before him. So we've had it before and those just happen to be the coaches we've had most of our franchise success with.
That's great to have a plan, but IMO it seems like they are going overboard if they think developing UDFAs is a priority over getting some more veteran help for a team that is contending for something. Perhaps we got ahead of schedule with the success of last year, so then maybe you can make some adjustments to account for the fact that you are a contending team. Perhaps Licht is letting this drafting success go to his head, because even you are a great drafter you aren't going to be 100% successful and you still need to tweak things now and then.B) there is some overall plan which Bowles is fully participating from the start in where the Bucs are rebuilding from within, getting out from under the cap hell, and they aren't going to detour from that plan come hell or high water.
This
They threw Bowles into the HC position very late because of Brady's crazy reversal and so he took over a team in some disarray and did so without his own coaches.
At that point EVERYONE knows whats going on. Licht, Bowles, Arians and the Glazers. They all know that almost NO experienced HC candidate is taking that job IN MARCH to go for one last try for Brady with a somewhat diminished roster (compared to the SB) and then rebuild and get out from all the dead money over the remainder of the likely HC contract. NO FREE AGENTS, draft and develop only and even get rid of some guys (eg Davis) over the remainder of the HC's contract. NOPE . . .ESPECIALLY NOT IN MARCH
So Bowles got a FIVE year deal. And the truth is he has been a SUCCESSFUL part of that plan all along. MORE SUCCESSFUL than anyone (especially on the Red Board) anticipated
AND a big part part of that 2023 success was the OC and the QB he recruited and hired. Another HUGE part of that success in 2023 was very limited injuries. As anyone who knows averages could tell you that was not very likely to happen again this year. It has not.
But, his contract is much closer to the end so it will come down to how the rest of the season plays out.
It a business, they have a budget, it’s a small market, that’s exactly how it went.I think it's players, but these are the players Bowles chose to go to war with. I really don't believe Bowles went to Licht and said "I need more help at X, Y and Z positions" and Licht said, "Sorry Todd, nothing I can do." I just don't think it went like that. Either A) Bowles chose to have loyalty to his guys from camp and to ride or die with his guys even including practice squad. Or B) there is some overall plan which Bowles is fully participating from the start in where the Bucs are rebuilding from within, getting out from under the cap hell, and they aren't going to detour from that plan come hell or high water. Either way, Bowles is a full participant in this situation we are in where we have UDFAs and special teamers who just aren't getting the job done when they are expected to actually play real football downs.I don’t agree with firing a coach who has been plagued by injuries
They didn't lose vs Atlanta twice, Denver, or Baltimore because they were plagued by injuries. They lost for reasons related to bad head coaching or bad defensive coaching. The average score of the opposing team in those four games was 33.5 points.
Bowles is a good DC. He's just not a good HC/DC.
Knowing the way the Bucs work I just find it hard to believe that it's a simple matter of Jason Licht hamstringing Bowles. Bowles and Licht are a team, so Bowles has accountability for where we're at.
As a reminder; we still had dead cap hit from Brady to deal with. We signed AWJ, extended Tristan, signed Baker, LVD, and Money McLaughlin.
It’s why I said in the pre-season, we were about a year away from actually having the talent - on both sides of the ball - to be able to compete for a Super Bowl. I hope/trust it works out, because opportunity doesn’t always show up when your ready for it.
But I’m only applying years of heartbreaking experience to the datasets of what a lot of smart people here know - so take it for what it’s worth.
Everybody has the same budget in the NFL regardless of market size. We have cap room for depth players. I'm not saying the Bucs should or can abandon the overall plan. It's a good plan. I get it. But they are 17th in the league in cap space at $9+ mil. They had cap room to sign a couple minor depth players. When you see there is a need crops up because of injuries or underperformance, do you do something or just ride it out with the guys you have? Well, they chose to just ride it out, and it probably cost us a chance to get in the playoffs. After the Atlanta game we're on the outside looking in, and at this point I wouldn't recommend spending any energy trying to do something at the trade deadline.
@white-tiger that window shuts more next season. No Lavonte. And Evans/Godwin will be a year older. So many holes to fill on defense. If they’re not willing to spend in free agency or trade for an above average Edge we’ll be right where we are now on defense. It was this year or bust… And we will see a true rebuild… and hopefully that includes our HC.
