You sound like you think the talent isn’t where it needs to be - if so - that’s where we agree. In my estimation, it’s Licht that’s responsible for bringing-in/trading for talent. He either can’t, or won’t. Bowles seems to have a list of guys, when we’re without…ala Baker…so…
Bowles discussing Britt highlights the lack of depth and the lack of immediate solutions
"“There’s probably only one [player] that can do it and he has to get caught up to speed,” Bowles said, referring to Jones. “At the time, he wasn’t caught up to speed. Everybody else was more of a MIKE linebacker or pretty much the same from an athletic standpoint and K.J. was the smartest of the bunch.”
Levi Jones is the SINGULAR answer at the position. Levi Jones
I take that he meant, of all the available options currently on the roster… but it takes time more time for key positions, like coverage ILB & Safety, to figure out their responsibilities in Bowles system. It’s apparently a bit more complicated than showing up with ability & a resume. Guys that aren’t familiar with it, take time before they’re proficient in it. I think it may be why there’s a premium on guys that have played in it, previously, like Jordan Whitehead (who’s currently playing like he’s injured or forgot what he used to know).You sound like you think the talent isn’t where it needs to be - if so - that’s where we agree. In my estimation, it’s Licht that’s responsible for bringing-in/trading for talent. He either can’t, or won’t. Bowles seems to have a list of guys, when we’re without…ala Baker…so…
Bowles discussing Britt highlights the lack of depth and the lack of immediate solutions
"“There’s probably only one [player] that can do it and he has to get caught up to speed,” Bowles said, referring to Jones. “At the time, he wasn’t caught up to speed. Everybody else was more of a MIKE linebacker or pretty much the same from an athletic standpoint and K.J. was the smartest of the bunch.”
Levi Jones is the SINGULAR answer at the position. Levi Jones
Because of the specific talent required, it isn’t easy to find players that can immediately contribute, because of the roster for the system, it wouldn’t be easy to replace Bowles. It would be a dump the talent at key positions and draft/buy new ones… which is what we have not allowed Bowles to do while we retooled/extended/re-signed the offense.
I say we’re teed up to give Bowles what he needs and has been lacking on defense next season (as far as talent acquisition). It will be interesting to see what happens.
it wouldn’t be easy to replace Bowles. It would be a dump the talent at key positions and draft/buy new ones… which is what we have not allowed Bowles to do while we retooled/extended/re-signed the offense.
I say we’re teed up to give Bowles what he needs and has been lacking on defense next season (as far as talent acquisition). It will be interesting to see what happens.
This is one thing that makes it really interesting because, hypothetically speaking, if you're firing Bowles and blowing it up then do you make other moves too like not resign Godwin, get ready to let Evans go etc.?
Maybe one way you do not do that is by elevating Coen, but Bowles is under contract for 2 more years? Maybe? So maybe there is a bias in favor of keeping him especially when the down year is injury-driven and cap/dead money infected.
Like you said, interesting
it wouldn’t be easy to replace Bowles. It would be a dump the talent at key positions and draft/buy new ones… which is what we have not allowed Bowles to do while we retooled/extended/re-signed the offense.
I say we’re teed up to give Bowles what he needs and has been lacking on defense next season (as far as talent acquisition). It will be interesting to see what happens.
This is one thing that makes it really interesting because, hypothetically speaking, if you're firing Bowles and blowing it up then do you make other moves too like not resign Godwin, get ready to let Evans go etc.?
Maybe one way you do not do that is by elevating Coen, but Bowles is under contract for 2 more years? Maybe? So maybe there is a bias in favor of keeping him especially when the down year is injury-driven and cap/dead money infected.
Like you said, interesting
well not sure firing the head coach automatically equates with 'blowing it up'. Bucs already showed they wouldn't do that after Brady left. That would have been the time. Now with Baker proving to be a viable replacement and keeping them competitive, i think they only continue to re-tool. We got extremely lucky as a franchise there.
before the year, Godwin was likely a coin flip to return to the Bucs. Why else would they have spend a high round pick on McMillian? Insurance to father time with Evans and Godwin departing.
Godwin proceeds to plays like the best receiver in the league and thus the Bucs almost have to re-sign him
then this season ending injury, his second in four years and now to me, if i'm a ruthless business man that i am, i use the franchise tag on Godwin closing in on the age of 30 to see how he performs next year. No guarantee he ever looks like the 2024 Chris Godwin again when you factor in rehab and aging.
Heading into this season, we knew our weaknesses - cornerback, inside linebacker, and edge. But, given all the dead cap space from the Brady years, there was only so much to go around and who could fault JL for retaining Wirfs, Winfield, Evans, Mayfield, David, and McLaughlin? it was a no brainer.
Bowles specialty is defense and the defense is ranked 30th in yards per game and 28th in points per game. THAT IS NOT GOOD. You can't blame lack of talent when we have top guys at their positions in Winfield, Vea, and David; not to mention guys familiar with the system in Whitehead returning, and high draft capital spend in the front 7. We knew the weaknesses, but i dont think anyone expected the defense to regress this much. that's a reflection on Bowles.
He likely retains his position of head coach this year and they chalk up the sub par year to schedule, injuries, dead cape sapce, etc. BUT....2025 will be make or break. They wont let him head into 2026 as a lame duck coach so he either gets extended or fired following next season. Assuming this year is 8-9 and next year is 9-8 and a playoff miss both years, does he keep his job? i doubt it.
You can't blame lack of talent when we have top guys at their positions in Winfield, Vea, and David;
First, thats a great post. Second, definitely not saying "Bowles is great, it is a lack of talent." Just saying. al,ack of talent and DEPTH is an obvious probalme and you cna make that point by just scrambling your words to address the OTHER players
We have Winfield and Vea BUT there's definitely a lack of talent when you're relying on Britt and a 35 year old LVD at LB (hes not "top guy at his position"), and your edge pass rush is Anthony Nelson, a rookie who was never a big ack guy in college, and a BUST . And then your CB on one side is a guy your pulling off the street today and your nickel is a UFA who was beat our by a rookie (who got injured)
But, defense is all related so its actually worse than that because if you just use the Atlanta game as an example what you should see is our most talented defensive player, Winfield, and his counterpart running around like chickens.
That is because all the other guys around them, from no pressure at the line to no underneath help (Britt and LVD) to terribly inexperienced DBs force them to run around like chickens. Compare that to heathy and motivated SB CBs playing lockdown most of the time, White and JPP and Barrett appluying massive pressure all the time and LVD single-handedly taking the TE out of the game.
That is the SLIDE that has been underway since 2020. Name one big FA we brought in to fix it?
(I joked in another thread that we are about to see Bowles go to full on Monte Tampa-2 keep everything in front. I am not sure what else he can do. If Linebackers and CBs are not taking away the immediate quick dumps and/or making it futile by tackling the receiver short of the line then teams will just keep picking us apart. We were destroyed in the Falcons game by TE who was matched up with a ROOKIE with no basically safety over the top (because that chicken was running to the other side of the field)
The Bucs will do just enough for Bowles to keep his job. Afterall, the Bucs had a slew of injuries and was handicapped by the salary cap.
Yes, I think that it is possible they move on from Bowles at the end of the season because his contact is getting shorter BUT he also has a BUILT-IN defense in that he is probably part of a cap-driven plan we should all see and he actually OVER PERFORMED versus expectations until injuries.
Light has an easy justification to keep going, at least at the moment.
***
The Rams won a Super Bowl and then went 5-12 and then 10-7 getting knocked out of the playoffs in the WC and this year are, for the moment, bottom of the division IN PART BECAUSE OF INJURIES
Bucs are not that much different. 2022 was a big down year (versus expectations) and then a surprise that included hte playoffs and this year off good but derailed by injuries.
Yes, I think that it is possible they move on from Bowles at the end of the season because his contact is getting shorter BUT he also has a BUILT-IN defense in that he is probably part of a cap-driven plan we should all see and he actually OVER PERFORMED versus expectations until injuries.
Light has an easy justification to keep going, at least at the moment.
***
The Rams won a Super Bowl and then went 5-12 and then 10-7 getting knocked out of the playoffs in the WC and this year are, for the moment, bottom of the division IN PART BECAUSE OF INJURIES
Bucs are not that much different. 2022 was a big down year (versus expectations) and then a surprise that included hte playoffs and this year off good but derailed by injuries.
i mean i think they would have to go 6-11 or worse for them to seriously consider to fire Bowles. His first 2 years were division titles so he has some good will. It's likely the Bucs win 7-8 games this year and they keep Bowles around - again chalking it up to injuries, dead cap space, etc.
All we could hope is that Coen isn't a hot commodity for head coaching job and we can actually start to build continuity.
But like i said, 2025 will be the season of determination for Bowles. Another playoff miss, and they likely move on from him. They make the playoffs, he likely gets extended.
i dont think the expectations are that high. You are talking about a franchise that has just made the playoffs 14 years in their 50 year existence.
3 of those came with McKay has head coach in the early 80s with the team making the playoffs that many times in its first 2 decades of existence.
Dungy made playoffs 4 out of his 6 years with the franchise. The problem was the expectations. The inept offense was tough to watch kicking field goals and losing a championship game 11-6 with Eagles handling us easily. The Bucs knew they had a window that was closing and they needed something to put them over the top. He was a victim of building a great defense but not being competent on the other side of the ball.
Gruden comes in, wins superbowl but makes playoffs just 3 out of his 7 years with the franchise. He was fired after a 9-3 start missing the playoffs. That's tough to recover from and was the triggering point there.
The Bucs then fail for the next 10 years with Raheem, Schiano, Lovie, and Koetter.
Arians cant fix Jameis in 2019 and the rest is history.
we have been spoiled since 2020 - the only NFC team to make the playoffs each of the last 4 years. Let us not forget the patheticness of the 10 years prior. I do think the expectations are higher on Bowles given our recent success but ultimately the Glazers are likely content with "exciting" football and i just don't see them making a move this year.
Great trip down memory lane there! In those McKay years they went one game from the Super Bowl. Terrible game against the Rams.
They move on from Bowles at the end of the year if:
1. They completely crumble from here
2. they sacrifice Bowles to keep Coen aka the pull “a Koetter”
I actually expect Licht to bring back Devin White. Not an advocate, but would he be worse than KJ Britt in our current situation?
I actually expect Licht to bring back Devin White.
So, after he was cut and available as a FA, you think Licht will now give up draft capital to trade for him?
I think the only additions we make will be off the salvage pile….
Not an advocate, but would he be worse than KJ Britt in our current situation?
Yes, he would. That is why Bowles benched him in favor of Britt last season.
I actually expect Licht to bring back Devin White.
I think the only additions we make will be off the salvage pile….
Licht would have to trade with Houston Texans to bring back White at this point. White is barely playing with them and is invisible in the box score of last night's game.
Did Bowles forget how to coach defense? No. The defense sucks right now, but it's a personnel problem. That's the fault of injuries, and the fault of Licht for not building up enough depth and the fault of Bowles for being too loyal to his players and perhaps not demanding some replacements. But we have two good coordinators right now, and no good head coach and a bunch of injuries.The Bucs will do just enough for Bowles to keep his job. Afterall, the Bucs had a slew of injuries and was handicapped by the salary cap.
You can say something needs to be done, but what? This is Licht's team. He's the one who has built this team through the draft. He's the one getting all the accolades. If you bring in a new head coach it could mean a whole new set of players, you need to bring in. A whole new philosophy. Licht isn't going to do this, because he's the one building this team. These are his guys. He's not going to start from scratch with the coaching, because that means doing another reshuffling of players. It would take a lot worse than what's going on now to make Licht want to do that.
He's not going to start from scratch with the coaching, because that means doing another reshuffling of players. It would take a lot worse than what's going on now to make Licht want to do that.
I agree it would take worse, but the one exception might be to keep Coen. Licht has made that move before.
