Did Bowles forget how to coach defense?
He is not as good of a DC when he is the HC too, no.
As DC*, he's had 5 top-10 scoring defenses in 7 seasons
As HC, he's had 2 top-10 scoring defenses in 7 seasons
*I'm counting his one season in Miami as a DC, since he was only the interim HC for the last three games of the year. That Miami team averaged 18.9 points allowed while he was DC for the first 13 games, but 22.3 points allowed in the last three games where Bowles was the interim HC/DC - which is further evidence that he struggles to fill both roles at the same time.
They are not going o trade for White so would taking him flopping again.
On those points, we have DUELING "coach speak." Bowles who showing his stripes as a "company man:"
“We just have to be careful between a need and a want — and that’s two different things,” Bowles said. “If the position is available, depending on what we’re asking and what they’re asking for, you know, a deal could be made.
“If not, we’ll kind of stand pat and go from there. We don’t feel like it’s a desperate need, but we feel like if we need anything if anybody else gets nicked up and there’s an opportunity, we’ll definitely look at it.”
and then DeMeco Ryans - who knows NOTHING about football or playing LB lol -- on White
“He was a no-miss player,” Ryans said. “He went top 10 in the Draft, I mean, he was an exceptional talent. So, what happened and why he’s here, no one knows. Life happens to us all. You just have to keep punching, keep attacking each day with the right mindset and [the] opportunity for Devin is to come in here and compete.
and then DeMeco Ryans - who knows NOTHING about football or playing LB lol -- on White
“He was a no-miss player,” Ryans said. “He went top 10 in the Draft, I mean, he was an exceptional talent. So, what happened and why he’s here, no one knows. Life happens to us all. You just have to keep punching, keep attacking each day with the right mindset and [the] opportunity for Devin is to come in here and compete.
He's also the guy that is barely playing the LB (a whopping 10 snaps last night) he's saying is an exceptional talent.
He is saying one thing while doing another. That's coach-speak, and the same simpleton keeps gobbling and gobbling and gobbling it up.
Not an advocate, but would he be worse than KJ Britt in our current situation?
Yes, he would. That is why Bowles benched him in favor of Britt last season.
"in our CURRENT SITUATION"
Bowles benched White for Britt for RUN defense. Britt's problem "IN OUR CURRENT SITUATION" is PASS DEFENSE . . . . OBVIOUSLY
"PFF Speak:"
White finished outside the top 80 in run-defense grade in each of his first four seasons, and he appears very likely to do so again this year. In fact, White owns a career 27.3 run-defense grade that ranks second worst of any linebacker who has played at least 100 snaps since he was drafted in 2019.
There is no doubt White brings solid pass-rush ability and makes some splash plays in coverage, but he’s never found consistency against the run.
Tampa Bay, despite some favorable traditional numbers, was struggling in run defense this season, woes that could’ve been the team's undoing. Coincidentally, things started to turn around in Week 13, which was the beginning of a stretch where White missed time due to injury.
White missed three games down the stretch and has played only 54 run-defense snaps since his return in Week 16. He’s been utilized in a manner that suits his strengths.
Over his past four games, White has rushed the passer 61 times, including 13 snaps against the Eagles, creating 10 pressures in the process. He also owns a league-leading 90.2 coverage grade over the past four weeks."
White is on his way out (most likely) the league because he is a head case (a point made by DeMeco Ryans) and a one trick pony. Also, he played substantially less snaps in the Jets loss (likely because the texans were running with the lead) BUT he split snaps the first game, 5 days after he signed and having not played a game in a year, and THIS is how DeMeco Ryan's used him:
"He recorded three tackles and nearly split a sack with defensive tackle Tim Settle Jr., shedding rust in the process. He had three hurries on blitzes and four pressures overall with two missed tackles."
But yes he is SUBSTANTIALLY better than Britt in the specific area where Britt is killing the team lmao.
Also, he played substantially less snaps in the Jets loss (likely because the texans were running with the lead) BUT he split snaps the first game, 5 days after he signed and having not played a game in a year
This is unsurprisingly wrong. White split snaps last week because the starting LB was out, not "likely because the Texans were running with the lead" like this ignorant buffoon thinks. That starting LB being out last week was the only reason White was signed. That starting LB returned this week and played 100% of the snaps while White barely played - and contributed even less.
People who pay attention to the NFL know this stuff - and then there's you. Keep scouring for coach-speak about how great Devin White is.
It's not out of the question, but the last time with Dirk Koetter it didn't work out. And it would be another example of hiring a coach without going through the NFL's hiring process. That might run afoul of the NFL since they bypassed it hiring Bowles already. Of course, they could go through a dog and pony show and hire Coen at the end of the day, but is he going to be any better at being a head coach than Bowles? Or will we just get another good coordinator who is not ready to be a HC? If you keep Coen and hire another HC, then Coen is essentially a HC in waiting, and who's going to want to be the HC when they know that Coen is in line to be the HC in a year or two? So you have to A) Keep Bowles another year, B) Hire Coen as HC or C) Clean house.He's not going to start from scratch with the coaching, because that means doing another reshuffling of players. It would take a lot worse than what's going on now to make Licht want to do that.
I agree it would take worse, but the one exception might be to keep Coen. Licht has made that move before.
Also, he played substantially less snaps in the Jets loss (likely because the texans were running with the lead) BUT he split snaps the first game, 5 days after he signed and having not played a game in a year
This is unsurprisingly wrong..
"Your" certainly an expert in wrong, so I will take "you're" word on the topic
But by all mean, carry on with your troll. Its going so well. "Bowles benched White for Britt because . . "(wrong) has now become "thats not what happened in the Jets game". BWHAHA
It's not out of the question, but the last time with Dirk Koetter it didn't work out.He's not going to start from scratch with the coaching, because that means doing another reshuffling of players. It would take a lot worse than what's going on now to make Licht want to do that.
I agree it would take worse, but the one exception might be to keep Coen. Licht has made that move before.
True, but that was Jameis, right? Anyway, not advocating for it, just pointing out the parallel.
I'm not saying Coen is like Koetter, because if he was and we hired him as HC, we'd essentially be saying "Welcome back Koetter". But Koetter was just not HC material IMO. He didn't have the presence to command an entire team. He barely had a winning record at the college level at 40-34 let alone the NFL. He was an OC for two years after the Bucs and then retired. Coen ideally should be refining his offense and play calling in 2025 and not trying to run an entire team. If you put a player in a position because they are needed and not because they are ready, it can backfire on you.It's not out of the question, but the last time with Dirk Koetter it didn't work out.He's not going to start from scratch with the coaching, because that means doing another reshuffling of players. It would take a lot worse than what's going on now to make Licht want to do that.
I agree it would take worse, but the one exception might be to keep Coen. Licht has made that move before.
True, but that was Jameis, right? Anyway, not advocating for it, just pointing out the parallel.
OK, lets imagine Coen is hired as HC for 2025 and a new DC comes in, probably not a big-name guy, who has to establish himself. That means the 2025 defense will be in transition to go along with a greenhorn HC. Is that going to be a recipe for success in year one? Not really. You have just as much chance of success keeping the status quo for another year and letting Coen develop. The Bucs are... or were... pointing toward 2025 to be the year when it all comes together. Right now, it seems like it's all coming apart. But the Bucs aren't going to change course right now because the alternatives are not any better than the status quo.
@catherder - I agree with some of what you’re saying. No situation is the same. If we messed up in the past it doesn’t mean that’ll happen this time. Have to make the right moves in every situation. And would our transitioning defense be any worse than this… I don’t think so.
Ummm… how long have you been a Bucs fan?@catherder - I agree with some of what you’re saying. No situation is the same. If we messed up in the past it doesn’t mean that’ll happen this time. Have to make the right moves in every situation. And would our transitioning defense be any worse than this… I don’t think so.
Our history shows - most recently the lost decade - kinda disproves this.
We bet the house on Gruden (and traded away the future for 5 years) to get a Super Bowl…and then held him accountable for the inability to back-fill key positions we began losing immediately afterwards.
I’m willing to excuse the period of transition between Malcom to his kids - until they learned what NOT to do and started the more recent period of building the strength of the staff & culture - but that was a brutal period.
Firing HC’s has not historically been the panacea fans thought it would be…in fact, someone pointed out that of the 50 seasons of Buc history, we’ve made the playoff 14 times.
Those seasons & results are all there to see…but unless you’re a glutton for punishment, I wouldn’t suggest a deep dive.
HC replacement has a negative connotation. Again, it’s why I’m an advocate for, slow-the-role & let’s see how we finish.
You have just as much chance of success keeping the status quo for another year and letting Coen develop.
In the Koetter situation 3 or 4 teams were looking at Koetter for HC. Thats the hypothetical parallel I was drawing ie would the Bucs choose to keep Coen at Bowles expense? Lovie's team was pretty terrible so not the best parallel unless there was a really bad collapse to the end and even then "iffy."
Ummm… how long have you been a Bucs fan?@catherder - I agree with some of what you’re saying. No situation is the same. If we messed up in the past it doesn’t mean that’ll happen this time. Have to make the right moves in every situation. And would our transitioning defense be any worse than this… I don’t think so.
made me laugh
And agree with the rest of the post.
In his Fab 5 SR brings up a good point that Bowles' defensive staff is older and Bowles is not likely to move on from any of them. If the defense struggles down the stretch the team could ask him to update his staff. According to SR he would refuse so one of the typical interim steps for a HC is gone.
Bowles has been the DC since 2019 and his defenses have been good pretty much the whole time until this year. Now the defense sucks and SR wants to pin it on the coaching. Well Bowles didn't forget how to coach. Whether he's a good HC or not is another story, but he knows how to coach defenses.In his Fab 5 SR brings up a good point that Bowles' defensive staff is older and Bowles is not likely to move on from any of them. If the defense struggles down the stretch the team could ask him to update his staff. According to SR he would refuse so one of the typical interim steps for a HC is gone.
