Well, I am not sure how you define big game BUT its all PERCEPTION (beauty is in the eye of the beholder) anyway.
Look at us agreeing.
Who would've thunk it...
Auman quote tweeted an article from Sportrac regarding Baker's projected contract:
Quick Details
4 years, $120,000,000
$30,000,000 AAV
$53M Guaranteed at Signing (signing bonus, 2024 salary, 2025 salary, plus 2025 option bonus)
$85M Practically Guaranteed_________________
Cap Hit
2024 - $6,250,000
2025 - $11,750,000
2026 - $42,000,000
2027 - $45,000,000
2028 (void) - $20,000,000
Dead Cap
2024 - $53,000,000
2025 - $46,750,000
2026 (potentital out) - $35,000,000
2027 - $30,000,000
2028 (void) - $15,000,000
Forgot to mention the "option bonus" listed above was for $25M, which would be prorated from 2025 through 2029 (2028 and 2029 being the voidable years).
Wanted to add this in, just in case anyone was trying to figure out the dead cap numbers and why'd they look off.
Auman quote tweeted an article from Sportrac regarding Baker's projected contract:
Quick Details
4 years, $120,000,000
$30,000,000 AAV
$53M Guaranteed at Signing (signing bonus, 2024 salary, 2025 salary, plus 2025 option bonus)
$85M Practically Guaranteed_________________
Cap Hit
2024 - $6,250,000
2025 - $11,750,000
2026 - $42,000,000
2027 - $45,000,000
2028 (void) - $20,000,000
Dead Cap
2024 - $53,000,000
2025 - $46,750,000
2026 (potentital out) - $35,000,000
2027 - $30,000,000
2028 (void) - $15,000,000
Thoughts?
Assume that means all other FAs sign as well, so Wirf and Winfield and Evans get their deals done too. If that is true then does that impact your thoughts?
yep, we’ll see. Soon.I guess we'll find out. I think he'll get what he desires from them even if he is set to test the market.Could the Vikes strategy be to let Cousins test the market to see if that fully guaranteed, $45m contract, stands?
From what I’ve heard, his agent wants a similar deal, do the Vikes?
This is what you said to me:Yeah it is the right response. Please do better. You and Lyin Tiger exaggerate things to big up Baker Mayfield and try to downplay players that are better than him. Its obvious what your doing.Thanks for the lecture:
You should try to actually get the facts straight about player performance before making assumptions to make a point. This "I think" as I "recall" ain't cutting it when the game logs are out there.
I will try to do better, boss.
Is that the appropriate response?
LMAO.
KIDDING ASIDE, I think going off my memory reflects that the conversation does not matter much.
It doesn't matter much because the entire "debate" is basically a beauty contest discussion. How does Baker compare to Cousins? Talk about the "beauty in the eye of the beholder" discussion. The Vikes like Cousins, the Bucs like Mayfield. Two DIFFERENT QBs and circumstances.
I just added another PERSPECTIVE, (even saying fairly or unfairly) and you didnt even say it was WRONG . . . you just applied a DOUBLE STANDARD, right?
You didn't refute that Cousins has questions about his big game performance and couldn't generate any offense in a one playoff or overcome a small deficit in another . . you just said it was the DEFENSE's fault.
That might be true, BUT TALK ABOUT IRONY?
Why is that ironic? Because when the Bucs lost in a playoff game its was arguably BECAUSE OF THEIR DEFENSE (3 straight full field TD drives) . . and yet it was Mayfield's late interception you called up.
Anyway, that is precisely what I mean by BEAUTY CONTEST discussions. Posters have their point of view and there is an almost endless supply of snippets to support their position . . . but not a single fact that would change their view or in this case matter much
In the end, Cousins likely works out some deal with the Vikings and the Bucs happily sign Mayfield, Evans, Winfield etc. Like i said, the Vikes like Cousins, the Bucs like Mayfield. Two DIFFERENT QBs and circumstances.
The entire debate is Cousins > Mayfield. There is no "beauty contest" just the cold hard truth that you Baker jock sniffers for some reason can't accept. And just like you, Tiger tried to say things about Cousins which was not accurate to make Mayfield look better than what he is in comparison to him.
I did refute Cousins questions about his "big game performances". Did you not read the part where Cousins led the Vikings to tie the game at 24-24 in the 4th? Yeah his defense let him down in that game but he played well. Those two things can both be true.
I think we are posting past each other. Let me try again lol
I am not exaggerating anything?
I said that there are questions about Cousins winning the big game. To PROVE that here is ONE example. It is Kyle Rudolph saying one of their playoff wins DISPROVES that cant win the big game "narrative:"
https://www.foxsports.com/watch/1666640963984
Kyle Rudolph is saying that because the NARRATIVE EXISTS. It is real. He's trying to disprove it FOR A REASON. It is a"narrative" though that is why I said "fairly or unfairly."
You gave your own EXPLANATION for the LOSSES that gave raise to that narrative.
ALSO, there are pages and page of posts, no doubt with a bunch of people calling other people names. Maybe you are involved ("Lyin Tiger"), but I understood the conversation to be about comparing free agent standing. Who is more sought after. Cousins is listed as the top QB free agent on everything I have seen.
BUT, that doesn't mean the market for him is necessarily bigger BECAUSE the market for a QB takes into account all the circumstances.
JUST LIKE SOME TEAMS WILL VIEW MAYFIELD AS SOMETHING LESS THAN LAST YEAR's PERFORMANCE (because of his seasons prior). .. some teams will have a lesser view of Cousins because of the circumstances eg he wants GUARANTEED $, he hurt is Achilles . .. HE's NEVER WON THE BIG GAME etc.
Beauty is IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER. The Bucs are NOT dumping Mayfield because they want Cousins, but how can that be if Cousins is the best free agent QB? Because Mayfield is a better fit HERE
"This is why the stats argument is kind of like the "winning percentage" argument before it. Its leaving out the context that (fairly or unfairly) the knock on Cousins has been whether he can win when it matters and that is BIG, especially when Mayfield (fairly or not) is sort of thought of as the OPPOSITE of that. (He's actually shown the opposite with the Bucs)
Going off of memory, Cousins stepped on to a loaded Vikes team and the team FLOPPED, right? They were stacked but had a bad season? If you go down to more recent performance (ie when there is no doubt it is HIS team) they have one season that mirrors the Bucs last season (divisional playoff loss) BUT in that game I think the Vikings offense disappears in the 4th quarter or maybe even the 2nd half. Contrast that with Mayfield in our divisional playoff loss.
The Vikings also had a great regular season in 2022 ONLY to lose in the first round of the playoffs WITH COUSINS unable to overcome a very small 4th qtr deficit, as I recall. They kind of fell flat again.
My point is call up all the stats one wants, but there are actual questions (fair or unfair) about Cousins ability to perform when it matters. What we've seen so far from Mayfield is the opposite of that and thats a pretty BIG part of being a QB."
Thanks for the reference that was his first playoff win in 2020. At the time, that was a valid concern but he proved then he could win a playoff environment. He got the proverbial monkey off his back. Why does that matter in 2024? It doesn't, he's won a playoff game and he played well enough in his last playoff one as well. I don't see that narrative in 2023-2024 anymore. There were actual questions about Kirk Cousins in the playoffs. However, there aren't any as of today in the present time, so why bring it up now?
You are insinuating that Mayfield is better "when it matters" with that paragraph, even after giving grace for Cousins.
In regarding to FA standing, about whose market is bigger, who cares? Cousins is the better player so it'll ultimately his would be, but he will cost more than Mayfield. Bucs barley have any cap space to pay their own players outside of their starting QB. The money Cousins will be expecting is way out of our price range. Bucs are bringing him back for continuity reasons and monetary reasons, not because Mayfield > Cousins.
In regarding to FA standing, about whose market is bigger, who cares? Cousins is the better player so it'll ultimately his would be, but he will cost more than Mayfield. Bucs barley have any cap space to pay their own players outside of their starting QB. The money Cousins will be expecting is way out of our price range. Bucs are bringing him back for continuity reasons and monetary reasons, not because Mayfield > Cousins.
It's pretty ridiculous this simple and obvious point has been argued for 10+ pages.
Auman quote tweeted an article from Sportrac regarding Baker's projected contract:
Quick Details
4 years, $120,000,000
$30,000,000 AAV
$53M Guaranteed at Signing (signing bonus, 2024 salary, 2025 salary, plus 2025 option bonus)
$85M Practically Guaranteed_________________
Cap Hit
2024 - $6,250,000
2025 - $11,750,000
2026 - $42,000,000
2027 - $45,000,000
2028 (void) - $20,000,000
Dead Cap
2024 - $53,000,000
2025 - $46,750,000
2026 (potentital out) - $35,000,000
2027 - $30,000,000
2028 (void) - $15,000,000
Thoughts?
Assume that means all other FAs sign as well, so Wirf and Winfield and Evans get their deals done too. If that is true then does that impact your thoughts?
Clearly, this would allow us to sign everyone (assuming they want to stay here), with a manageable cap number for '24 and '25.
But, while there's an out (and savings from a cap perspective), the backloaded nature of the deal would continue to push that dead cap narrative that I was hoping we'd start to come out of.
I still think $30mil/yr is too much. I just don't think his performance last year is worth increasing from $4mil/yr to $30mil/yr. But it's not my money so I'm hoping he proves me wrong--bigly.
Your second point undercuts your first, right?
In regarding to FA standing, about whose market is bigger, who cares? Cousins is the better player so it'll ultimately his would be
Its not just about the BETTER PLAYER when it comes ot hre "market" the tams that would pursue the free agent
he will cost more than Mayfield. Bucs barley have any cap space to pay their own players outside of their starting QB. The money Cousins will be expecting is way out of our price range
You're actually AGREEING with the point I have made a couple times on here. LOL. And if that is not enough, Brady was the GOAT but had a relatively small market for BEING THE GOAT ( the BEST player, not just "the better player") this is ONE example
9) Tom Brady, QB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Brady is a short-term solution who won't fit in most situations, hence this ranking. He also can still play at a league-average-starter level (or better) with protection, which has tremendous value. Hence this ranking.
If you dig past all the name calling, you'll probably find a post from me that says that this thread has a lot of people posting past each other because they are applying DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS to the list.
The "better player" is NOT automatically the one with the biggest market BECAUSE there is more to the market for a free agent than just statistics or even performance. I mean, in some of these lists Cousins is 2nd or 3rd BECAUSE of the position of another free agent, just like Brady was listed as 9 in the example above. Cousins is the same type of FA as Brady was MINUS the incredible, big time wins etc. He is the OLDER and injured "short-term solution."
I still think $30mil/yr is too much. I just don't think his performance last year is worth increasing from $4mil/yr to $30mil/yr. But it's not my money so I'm hoping he proves me wrong--bigly.
The last part in bold is sort of where I fall and why I asked DH about his opinion assuming all the other Buc FA are signed. The team is going to spend whatever the market says and so as long as it does NOT interfere with the other goals what difference does it really make? I am not trying to save the Glazers money.
would continue to push that dead cap narrative that I was hoping we'd start to come out of.
Yes meaning that ultimately the dead cap $ does have a negative impact eventually so minimize it unless you have some sort of extraordinary circumstances, like trying to win it all or even win it all back to back with Brady
DUH, there are other factors in when teams deciding to sign free agents. Age and contact definitely play apart of teams decision making, nobody is denying that. Even if you compare Cousins to Brady, his market is still BETTER THAN MAYFIELD. Every team reported by media outlets that has linked to Mayfield is linked to Kirk Cousins. In fairness to Tom, he had arguably one of his worst seasons as a pro before signing here. So not only did he have to deal with his age, people didn't think the GOAT had the ability to still lift teams; as to why he was #9 on that list.Your second point undercuts your first, right?
In regarding to FA standing, about whose market is bigger, who cares? Cousins is the better player so it'll ultimately his would be
Its not just about the BETTER PLAYER when it comes ot hre "market" the tams that would pursue the free agent
he will cost more than Mayfield. Bucs barley have any cap space to pay their own players outside of their starting QB. The money Cousins will be expecting is way out of our price range
You're actually AGREEING with the point I have made a couple times on here. LOL. And if that is not enough, Brady was the GOAT but had a relatively small market for BEING THE GOAT ( the BEST player, not just "the better player") this is ONE example
9) Tom Brady, QB, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Brady is a short-term solution who won't fit in most situations, hence this ranking. He also can still play at a league-average-starter level (or better) with protection, which has tremendous value. Hence this ranking.
If you dig past all the name calling, you'll probably find a post from me that says that this thread has a lot of people posting past each other because they are applying DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS to the list.
The "better player" is NOT automatically the one with the biggest market BECAUSE there is more to the market for a free agent than just statistics or even performance. I mean, in some of these lists Cousins is 2nd or 3rd BECAUSE of the position of another free agent, just like Brady was listed as 9 in the example above. Cousins is the same type of FA as Brady was MINUS the incredible, big time wins etc. He is the OLDER and injured "short-term solution."
We only agree that Mayfield is the best option for the BUCS and thats it. It has more to do with keeping our own players more so than Mayfield > Cousins. And that's the difference though, I'm not sitting up here downplaying superior players, bringing up old shit from 4 years ago about some narrative that nobody even talks about today.
bringing up old shit from 4 years ago about some narrative that nobody even talks about today.
I am not sure why you think that. This is a Viking fan website at the beginning of last year
https://thevikingage.com/2023/01/26/can-minnesota-vikings-win-super-bowl-kirk-cousins/
I mean, its. 12 year long career we are talking about.
Anyway, you're entitled to your opinion, but man this kind of "motivation" stuff is funny, especially when theres tons of info to the contrary:
[Kepping mayfileld] has more to do with keeping our own players more so than Mayfield > Cousins
I never said it was Mayfield versus Cousin I said that its more than STATS, its circumstances. BY YOUR POST (because I cannot read your mind even if you can read the Bucs' minds lol) you seem to think that everything is "Cousins > Mayfield." I am actually talking about FA decisions NOT being Madden, not being that straight forward as the "betetr quarterback" has the biggest market, a point you DISAGREED with (in a post that contradicted itself) and now that you seem to begrudgingly agree with. lol.
By the way, in terms of your MIND READING on the Bucs motivation, this is the Bucs head coach JUST A COUPLE DAYS AGO on Mayfield:
“I don’t think enough people give him enough credit for being a true quarterback,” Bowles said. “He stood back in the pocket and made some throws. He throws a great deep ball. He has a lot of velocity on the ball. He’s very accurate when you give him time. He knows when to run to get the first downs. You’d like him to slide a little bit more, but he knows when to run to get the first downs and he did a heck of a job for us. And I was very proud of him.”
“It’s an extremely high priority, obviously,” Bowles said of keeping Mayfield. “We love Baker. Baker had a heck of a year. He fit right in with us all the way around. The chemistry was outstanding with him and all the receivers and the offense as a whole, so we hope to build on that. I understand the business side of it. Like I said, we like Bake and we hope things get worked out.”
and LICHT just a couple days ago
“So like we said, [media] expectations were low and I think the players all had a little bit of a chip on their shoulder. And then we had a quarterback who eternally carries a chip on his shoulder. It’s a boulder,” Licht said.
“So it was the perfect marriage and he made that chip even bigger on everyone’s shoulder, including mine. I was enjoying keeping some receipts myself. Now we have some great players, though. … So it was a good place for [Baker] to go, it wasn’t like the cupboard is bare.
Maybe there is more to it than just keeping our on players
I mean make no mistake about it. Jason Licht and Bucs 100% prefer baker over cousins
ofcourse will get the “you have no way of knowing that” rebuttals but if you take off the baker hate blinders, cousin is much older, coming off an injury and hasn’t really accomplished winning in his career. Like I said other teams would prefer baker over cousins too….but there are also teams that will prefer cousins over baker. A matter of preference and what the teams are trying to build.
cousins is a maybe 1-2 year left of juice and that’s a maybe depending on how he bounces back. Baker shelf life is longer
I mean make no mistake about it. Jason Licht and Bucs 100% prefer baker over cousins
Of course they do.
He's cheaper and there's continuity.
Doesn't mean he's a better QB (which of course, he's not).
Better fit for where we are as a team? Sure.
