Winfield shoudn't be tagged because even if he's made the highest paid safety the team can finese the 2024 cap hit and barring a signficant injury he will live up to the numbers.
Evans tag is high but it's actually not bad value. At his age it's probably best to keep him on the 1 year deal. And he would have more offers in free agency than Mayfield.
Let Mayfield test the market without the ability to act like he and Evans are package deal.
I agree with a lot of this.
As I've said, Winfield is my top priority.
A Wirfs extension would be my second, as I think we could free up additional cap with the extension and possibly lower his 5th year option cap hit.
These are easily the 2 best players on the team, home grown, trajectories with HoF resumes.
I just can't get on board with tagging Evans. I think it turns the situation volatile in a heartbeat.
Well, he has to go somewhere…but it is odd that the teams I referenced, aren’t interested…Look, they're both free agents, do you think more NFL teams would choose Baker, or Kirk, first?
Kirk Cousins, because he’s the better QB. It’s pretty stunning this is being asked. Mayfield has a cult-like following, but Cousins is and has been a better QB throughout his career.
I gave you three different free agent QB lists, with Cousins being the #1 FA QB. That wasn’t a coincidence.
…I mean, not as their first choice, anyway.
Well, he has to go somewhere…but it is odd that the teams I referenced, aren’t interested…Look, they're both free agents, do you think more NFL teams would choose Baker, or Kirk, first?
Kirk Cousins, because he’s the better QB. It’s pretty stunning this is being asked. Mayfield has a cult-like following, but Cousins is and has been a better QB throughout his career.
I gave you three different free agent QB lists, with Cousins being the #1 FA QB. That wasn’t a coincidence.
…I mean, not as their first choice, anyway.
This continues to be nothing but idle speculation on your part, while I’ve given you factual information with links to back up my position that Cousins is the better QB and #1 FA QB.
There is nothing that backs up your point. Know how I know? If so, Baker would be granted his leave, and we’d be cozying up to Kirk Cousins…and if the Bucs were to have gone after one of the OC’s Kirk has worked with …but they didn’t, and we’re not. In fact, Liam Coen specifically mentioned being excited to work with Baker Mayfield as a motivation for signing with the Bucs in his press conference…no one even seemed to care what links Kirk Cousins had to…any OC.Well, he has to go somewhere…but it is odd that the teams I referenced, aren’t interested…Look, they're both free agents, do you think more NFL teams would choose Baker, or Kirk, first?
Kirk Cousins, because he’s the better QB. It’s pretty stunning this is being asked. Mayfield has a cult-like following, but Cousins is and has been a better QB throughout his career.
I gave you three different free agent QB lists, with Cousins being the #1 FA QB. That wasn’t a coincidence.
…I mean, not as their first choice, anyway.
This continues to be nothing but idle speculation on your part, while I’ve given you factual information with links to back up my position that Cousins is the better QB and #1 FA QB.
See, your data doesn’t matter, to Jason Licht, Todd Bowles, Liam Coen…or anyone else in the Buccaneer organization…or me, and few others here.
The only way the Bucs would settle for Kirk Cousins would be if Baker Mayfield were to sign elsewhere…
…and who wants to settle?
Baker better Cousins.
🤣🤣🤣
Gotta love the entertainment aspect of the offseason.
He may be an option, but it would be the backup plan…
Most debates on here are posters making different points that are not necessarily inconsistent.
There can definitely be a bigger market for Mayfield than Cousins.
There can definitely be a bigger market for Mayfield than Cousins because the NFL is not Madden (best stats win). In the NFL, every player is a package of good and bad.
So, even if you accept for sake of argument that Cousins is the better QB in the past, he's still reportedly seeking a 100% guaranteed contract ($90 Million over 2 years, reportedly) and he is 36 (?) with an injured Achilles, just after that same scenario played out poorly for the Jets. Cousins is probably NOT in multiple teams plans, even if you believe he is the best QB available.
The Bucs prove that point. For the Bucs Cousins is probably a BACK UP plan to Mayfield, just by virtue of the fact they already hired Coen, right? Why, if he is the "#1 Free agent?" Because a player is more than a bunch of stats.
Mayfield may also NOT be in some teams plans, but he beat Cousins head-to-head, out performed Cousins team, took his team two deep in the playoffs and is on the right side of 30 and UNINJURED, so easier to give a much more cap-friendly contract, especially when compared to Cousins (100% guaranteed WITH an injury that is often career ending).
Mayfield is at least conceptually a play for now and the future. Cousins is a very expensive RENTAL.
(As an aside, a pretty mobile Mayfield was sacked something like 38 times last season? How would an older and injured Cousins do behind that line? He's already a pretty high sack rate guy, I thought)
Cousins has a more consistent track record.
a team that thinks they are a QB away will likely take a flier on him over Baker who's track record has not been consistent.
that being said, Cousins is essentially a .500 QB, can't win in the playoffs, and is recovering from a major injury.
if one would suggest Atlanta, Minnesota, Denver, and Pittsburgh over/under wins is set at 8....would suggest Cousins gives them a 1 game boost.
Huh, that doesn’t seem to be what Tampa Bay, Washington, New England, Denver, Atlanta, Las Vegas, and Pittsburgh have indicated?
Oh really?
These teams have come out said they’d prefer Baker over Kirk?
Where’d you read/see this?
Also, I remember a few weeks ago, you posted in a thread (can’t remember which one) that a great number of teams were covering him. They were smart and knew something we didn’t know (or something to that effect).
My apologies, as I forgot to ask.
Considering they’re smart and stuff, why weren’t they all lined up last offseason?
while i have no idea White tigers' statement is coming from as i dont think any of those teams other than Tampa has really made it known of Baker over Cousins. As of this point, i havent seem many reports of interest in anyone to be honest?
i will say in terms of your last comment...you may recall not many were lined up for Tom Brady after his 2019 campaign either. Believe we were competing with the Chargers, then it came out like 2 years later than the Raiders were a possibility. So it's not like teams get it right when they think a player is dead (i.e. Brady after 2019, Baker trying to revive his career)
i will say, that after his 2023 campaign, i would have guessed many coaching staffs would have preferred they had Baker on the team in 2023 as it could have saved their job.
the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. Will we be competing with no one for Baker, as somebody like JC would suggest? No. Will we have to fight down 10 teams for his services, NO. BUT...could 1 or 2 other teams make a serious run at him to be the starter including a team like Atlanta? yes i could see that and honestly, it's only 1 or 2 other teams that is enough to drive the price up.
There is nothing that backs up your point.
Your state of denial doesn't make reality any less real.
Know how I know? If so, Baker would be granted his leave, and we’d be cozying up to Kirk Cousins
This is a logical fallacy, in every sense.
If you're claiming that Mayfield is better than Cousins, I'm not sure what is even left to say.
I should have stopped here. My mistake.
recall not many were lined up for Tom Brady after his 2019 campaign either.
Yes another example
It's clear that Cousins has been more consistent and has more impressive stats than Mayfield during their respective careers. Cousins is 35. Mayfield is 28. Just based on age alone, there is more upside potential with Mayfield over the long run. Personally I'd rather keep Mayfield and work on the o-line and running game to help him improve further here in Tampa Bay. IMHO I believe they both will remain with their current teams.
Cousins says he's on track to be ready for the season, but that may be his wishful thinking. There's no guarantee that he will be ready, and at his age his skills could start to be on the down slide or that he won't be more injury prone in the future. If you are trying to win now then you can't afford to put your team behind the 8-ball after the first month of the season. He's not the next Tom Brady when it comes to taking a team to the top. I'd rather have Baker if choosing between the two mainly because of the age difference.Cousins has a more consistent track record.
a team that thinks they are a QB away will likely take a flier on him over Baker who's track record has not been consistent.
that being said, Cousins is essentially a .500 QB, can't win in the playoffs, and is recovering from a major injury.
if one would suggest Atlanta, Minnesota, Denver, and Pittsburgh over/under wins is set at 8....would suggest Cousins gives them a 1 game boost.
I should have stopped.Yes, if you’re arguing for a 35 y/o QB, recovering from an ACL, instead of a QB the team is obviously building around, you should have stopped.
Its hard to keep struggling against the conclusion, but if you throw enough figures up there, maybe the Bucs will see what you see.
or you may have missed that explanation where you keep doing the same things, and expecting different results.
Figures lie, and liars figure.
Keep it up though, it’s almost to the point of hilarity.
Besides, you can R-E-L-A-X, I left the door open. I said we may have to settle on Kirk.
