Kirk Cousins now has a torn ACL - which means he will REALLY needs a ‘clean pocket’ …more like for protecting the GOAT…without GOAT-like performance.
Wait, what?
I've seen you mention this twice this morning.
When did this happen?
Who's saying that Mayfield is better than Winfield or Evans? I don't remember anybody who said that. Mayfield is a quarterback and the number is 3. There are only three legit starting quarterbacks on the market: Cousins and Mayfield and Fields by trade. The rest are trash. PFF putting Tannehill ahead of Mayfield is a joke. Mayfield is a middle of the pack QB, top 15 to 20. Cousins about the same at this stage, Fields not far behind. Fields will be cheaper moneywise but will cost you a high draft pick. If you don't have a quarterback you're screwed.Interesting, so it appears a few of us see the same things as the folks over at Bleacher Report? That’s odd, have they not been paying attention to the analysis of the anti-Baker folks on the Red Board?
It almost sounds like what some of us have been asserting - now even even national sports media think Mayfield would be the preferred FA QB?
Let's dive into this, shall we?
FREE AGENT RANKINGS
PFF
- Cousins - #2
- Winfield - #8
- Evans - #13
- LVD - #39
- Devin White (LOL) - #73
- Mayfield - #75
I mean, I can keep going, but I think the point has been made.
Contrary to what @white-tiger posted, the national sports media DOES NOT think that Mayfield is the "preferred FA QB".
But on the other hand what is not talked about are the free agents on other teams who I would like to envision on the Bucs. Patrick Queen or Josh Allen for example. What if we went out and put some money into a stud player or two like that and went with Trask at QB? Would that work out? I don't know. Just asking. Free agency works both ways. It gives the players options, and it give teams options too.
Now that we have some cap spaces why do we have to sign all our own players when there are plenty of fish in the sea? We went 9-8 not 15-2. I don't care if Mike Evans or Baker Mayfield go elsewhere. I wish them the best of luck on whatever team they are on whether its the Bucs or another team. I just want the Bucs to put together a winning team. That's the goal here.
I share your assessment of Ira. Lazy or not very bright.1) franchise tag best used where there is uncertainty over LT value
This is yet another lazy take from Ira.
What uncertainty? There's already a pretty clear path to Wirfs extension and what the number would be.
2) they will definitely bring Evans back and Winfield is a no-brainer, cornerstone guy who is relatively inexpensive so he is the long-term deal now guy. Lock him up while you can
This makes more sense. Also why I hope they get the Wirfs deal done and avoid the tag. Take care of your cornerstones pieces, especially the "home grown" ones.
3) By comparison, Mayfield is the guy you want to "see more of" before a LTD and the QB cap is roughly $36, so not that much more than some project his likely value (SR placing it at $30 to $38)
Lazy Ira at it again.
You get zero flexibility with this option (as it pertains to the cap). I mean, if this is in legit consideration, I'd rather give him 3yr/$85-$90M and front load it to an extent (as the cap year 1 would essentially be the same). Would give us a much easier out with minimal dead cap ramifications.
Agree that extending Wirffs/cornerstone is key to both re-signing Baker and Mike. Extending Wirffs gives us more cap room as well.
Believe re-signing Baker is more highly rated amongst Buc staffers/coaches than you give credence to. $85/$90m for 3 years seems light. I think the deal will be closer to $100m to $120m - and some consideration to guaranteed money - but structuring the deal can make it cap friendly if both sides want the same thing - but it’s just a guess.
Also don’t think Mike Evans re-signs without Baker. I believe if the Bucs don’t re-sign Baker, then Mike’s next QB will be CJ Stroud.
I’m sure it’s a scenario Bucs brass have considered, but from the way they have handled hiring a Baker Mayfield endorsed OC, the numerous articles posted on the Buccaneer’s own website, it’s pretty clear they’re focused on Baker.Who's saying that Mayfield is better than Winfield or Evans? I don't remember anybody who said that. Mayfield is a quarterback and the number is 3. There are only three legit starting quarterbacks on the market: Cousins and Mayfield and Fields by trade. The rest are trash. PFF putting Tannehill ahead of Mayfield is a joke. Mayfield is a middle of the pack QB, top 15 to 20. Cousins about the same at this stage, Fields not far behind. Fields will be cheaper moneywise but will cost you a high draft pick. If you don't have a quarterback you're screwed.Interesting, so it appears a few of us see the same things as the folks over at Bleacher Report? That’s odd, have they not been paying attention to the analysis of the anti-Baker folks on the Red Board?
It almost sounds like what some of us have been asserting - now even even national sports media think Mayfield would be the preferred FA QB?
Let's dive into this, shall we?
FREE AGENT RANKINGS
PFF
- Cousins - #2
- Winfield - #8
- Evans - #13
- LVD - #39
- Devin White (LOL) - #73
- Mayfield - #75
I mean, I can keep going, but I think the point has been made.
Contrary to what @white-tiger posted, the national sports media DOES NOT think that Mayfield is the "preferred FA QB".
But on the other hand what is not talked about are the free agents on other teams who I would like to envision on the Bucs. Patrick Queen or Josh Allen for example. What if we went out and put some money into a stud player or two like that and went with Trask at QB? Would that work out? I don't know. Just asking. Free agency works both ways. It gives the players options, and it give teams options too.
Now that we have some cap spaces why do we have to sign all our own players when there are plenty of fish in the sea? We went 9-8 not 15-2. I don't care if Mike Evans or Baker Mayfield go elsewhere. I wish them the best of luck on whatever team they are on whether its the Bucs or another team. I just want the Bucs to put together a winning team. That's the goal here.
You’re right, you do have to have a QB to win. At this point though, we have to agree that Kyle Trask starting would be a worst case scenario. Not passing judgement on Kyle, but if they were going to entrust this to him, they would have done so last season. it appears that the Bucs rate Baker much more highly than Kyle - so, no, I don’t think it’s the direction they prefer to take, unless Baker walks away. He certainly didn’t have to come to OBP to meet with Liam Coen after his press conference - Baker was a FA who had already cleared out his locker with the rest of the team the week prior - but Baker did. Liam seemed to be reaching out to Baker in the video (that the Bucs also posted to their website).
You won’t lure Mike Evans in to play with Kyle, Kirk or Michael Pennix. There’s a hit QB back in his home state that would be a better fit for him at this stage of his career…and they have some money to spend.
This is yet another lazy take from Ira.
What uncertainty? There's already a pretty clear path to Wirfs extension and what the number would be.
to clarify, Iras position was that the franchise tag is best used when there is question of "LT value," meaning long term, not Wirfs :-)
I am not pushing Kaufman as sone savant and he is basically retired but he’s obviously incredibly connected.
he was also offering his take though. He didn’t tie it to a source. He is right that Mayfield is the uncertain one so IF you think Ira’s description of the franchise tag makes sense you can see how he’d come to that conclusion
This is yet another lazy take from Ira.
What uncertainty? There's already a pretty clear path to Wirfs extension and what the number would be.
to clarify, Iras position was that the franchise tag is best used when there is question of "LT value," meaning long term, not Wirfs :-)
Ahhh…
Kaufman aside - $36m for one season may cost us Mike or AWJ and probably LVD…which would kill the Bucs ability to win. Obviously if there is no Mike, the offense stops - losing AWJ would break the defense. Additionally, that $36m tag THIS year would set us up for ridiculous negotiation just 12 months later.
I think signing Baker to a $40 to 50m, would be obscene, but I think Wilson at $49m, Dak $40m, Carr $38m, and Jimmy G $24m are just as obscene.
Suspect Baker’s agent is trying to get his client the best contract as possible - but Licht is not going to buy-in to continuing the obscenity in QB salary trends.
Hope we can sign Baker for $27m to $30m because it allows us the best chance to get Mike & AWJ, extend Wirffs and sign LVD. Only way all of this works.
Kaufman aside - $36m for one season may cost us Mike or AWJ and probably LVD…which would kill the Bucs ability to win
Kaufman's were the opposite of that. They were about keeping everyone together. In fact, I think all three of them (Kaufman and the joes) acknowledge that the Bucs cannot lose Evans or AWJ
I dont follow the cap stuff closely enough so maybe that does not make sense.
Kaufman aside - $36m for one season may cost us Mike or AWJ and probably LVD…which would kill the Bucs ability to win. Obviously if there is no Mike, the offense stops - losing AWJ would break the defense. Additionally, that $36m tag THIS year would set us up for ridiculous negotiation just 12 months later.
I think signing Baker to a $40 to 50m, would be obscene, but I think Wilson at $49m, Dak $40m, Carr $38m, and Jimmy G $24m are just as obscene.
Suspect Baker’s agent is trying to get his client the best contract as possible - but Licht is not going to buy-in to continuing the obscenity in QB salary trends.
Hope we can sign Baker for $27m to $30m because it allows us the best chance to get Mike & AWJ, extend Wirffs and sign LVD. Only way all of this works.
the Bucs are better off pursuing other options if bakers tag is magically 40+ million. No thank you
he played well enough to earn a 3 year, 75-90 million range. Nothing more.
I enjoyed his playoff run but that’s too small a sample size to go crazy
suppose we’d have to look at Ryan tannehill, Jimmy G or somehow get Russell Wilson at a decent price if he were to be cut?
Nope, it’s tough. But I don’t see any effective way to win without all 3 (which would include Baker), signing Mike & AWJ - still leaves us with who’s going to get them the ball?
Even if Minny moves on from Kirk Cousins - I think that injury makes him troublesome and that limitation wouldn’t allow us to maximize this offense - and his contract would put us in a worse position than signing Baker.
If you need Mike & AWJ - then Baker is the only one that results in giving us the best chance to win while rebuilding the trenches.
Hope we can sign Baker for $27m to $30m because it allows us the best chance to get Mike & AWJ, extend Wirffs and sign LVD.
Your limit is a tad higher than mine, but this is something I am in agreement with you about Baker.
none of those QB’s would give us any chance. Plus, CJ Stroud would be more of a lure than any of those guys - so you lose one of the pieces you say must be signed.Kaufman aside - $36m for one season may cost us Mike or AWJ and probably LVD…which would kill the Bucs ability to win. Obviously if there is no Mike, the offense stops - losing AWJ would break the defense. Additionally, that $36m tag THIS year would set us up for ridiculous negotiation just 12 months later.
I think signing Baker to a $40 to 50m, would be obscene, but I think Wilson at $49m, Dak $40m, Carr $38m, and Jimmy G $24m are just as obscene.
Suspect Baker’s agent is trying to get his client the best contract as possible - but Licht is not going to buy-in to continuing the obscenity in QB salary trends.
Hope we can sign Baker for $27m to $30m because it allows us the best chance to get Mike & AWJ, extend Wirffs and sign LVD. Only way all of this works.
the Bucs are better off pursuing other options if bakers tag is magically 40+ million. No thank you
he played well enough to earn a 3 year, 75-90 million range. Nothing more.
I enjoyed his playoff run but that’s too small a sample size to go crazy
suppose we’d have to look at Ryan tannehill, Jimmy G or somehow get Russell Wilson at a decent price if he were to be cut?
No one knows that the number is $40m - but of those QB’s you list, Baker’s proved he’s better than all of them and might be the only one that could sway Mike.
Suspect Baker’s agent is trying to get his client the best contract as possible
I may be wrong and very much alone in this opinion, but I think Mayfield is not trying to break the bank with the Bucs.
Mayfield wants to get paid, no doubt, but he has to see the Bucs as his best long-term stability play, especially if/when Evans is coming back.
Mayfield already mentioned twice that good players make contract sacrifices to keep good teams together. He has his hand-picked OC here. He should have Evans and Godwin and the rest back. The head coach loves him and that has NOT been the case early in his career. The LT absolutely loves him and is a future HOFer.
This may be unfair to Mayfield, but if you look at his pre-Buc NFL experience and compare that to this past season, his story is that of a guy with talent who maybe lacked maturity early on, but who also may have found it now and here with the Bucs. Canales actually talked about his first conversations with Mayfield and the take away was that Mayfield was seeking redemption, seeking to prove people wrong. He seems like he has a chip on his shoulder about the past and, if that is true, then successfully leading the Bucs on from here for a number of years would silence a bunch of the early NFL critics.
Just one take. May be way off.
That is what he said. I think all 3 of our top FA’s are kind of dependent on each other to give us the best shot at winning games.
Also helps us keep focusing on drafting inexpensive pieces that can improve the offense & defense.
Losing any of those 3 FA’s - may cost us two of them…and set the franchise back.
Baker has talked about sacrificing, Mike has sacrificed to make the team better, and AWJ could be affordable signed/tagged… it really comes down to what you said: they may not have said “we’re a package deal” - but they kinda are a package deal.
Mike is going to be the most interesting, and maybe the most difficult, to sign.
