Very true. Sapp is HOF and Suh has a good chance at it. Nobody's putting McCoy in the HOF, but this "soft" stuff never came up during his career until the end. Selmon had 44 wins. Gruber had 64 wins in 12 years, played and lost one playoff game. That's about 5.3 wins per year. Lee Roy Selmon averaged 4.9 wins per year (3 years were 14 game seasons). McCoy averaged 5.9 wins per year. This talk about McCoy being soft was nowhere to be found for most of his career. It was only at the end that this narrative gained steam. A narrative can build strength over time as it's repeated enough even if it isn't true. He did not make six straight pro-bowls and three all pros by being soft.Professional athletes are often defined by their circumstances more than their performance. Bill Buckner and Kirk Gibson have very similar stats.
Bucs fans would probably be happy to have someone like Vea or Kancey be a 3 time all-pro with 60 sacks over 10 years. McCoy though is mostly judged by his personality because he followed Sapp and was not Suh.
McCoy's biggest mistake was resigning with the Bucs after his rookie contract. He could have gone to a winning team and he'd be thought of as a winner, but he chose a losing franchise that followed up after a Superbowl era. Those Superbowl alumni didn't want to see their team lose and looked for the reason and chose the best player on the team. Bad choice. Maybe he wasn't up to the standards of Sapp and Barber, but he also didn't have Hall of Fame teammates.
The claim that GMC was “soft” underscores the comparison to Sapp and Suh. People see him through that lens.
Very true. Sapp is HOF and Suh has a good chance at it. Nobody's putting McCoy in the HOF, but this "soft" stuff never came up during his career until the end. Selmon had 44 wins. Gruber had 64 wins in 12 years, played and lost one playoff game. That's about 5.3 wins per year. Lee Roy Selmon averaged 4.9 wins per year (3 years were 14 game seasons). McCoy averaged 5.9 wins per year. This talk about McCoy being soft was nowhere to be found for most of his career. It was only at the end that this narrative gained steam. A narrative can build strength over time as it's repeated enough even if it isn't true. He did not make six straight pro-bowls and three all pros by being soft.Professional athletes are often defined by their circumstances more than their performance. Bill Buckner and Kirk Gibson have very similar stats.
Bucs fans would probably be happy to have someone like Vea or Kancey be a 3 time all-pro with 60 sacks over 10 years. McCoy though is mostly judged by his personality because he followed Sapp and was not Suh.
McCoy's biggest mistake was resigning with the Bucs after his rookie contract. He could have gone to a winning team and he'd be thought of as a winner, but he chose a losing franchise that followed up after a Superbowl era. Those Superbowl alumni didn't want to see their team lose and looked for the reason and chose the best player on the team. Bad choice. Maybe he wasn't up to the standards of Sapp and Barber, but he also didn't have Hall of Fame teammates.
I have defended the Jolly Green Giant many times but McCoy was called soft a lot while he was a Buc. When Bowers was moonlighting as a musician and McCoy was all smiles in the 4th quarter of games it was the one armed bandit and Michael Bennett doing the work.
McCoy was called soft a lot while he was a Buc.
Again, an example of why the McCoy bashing is more about the fans than McCoy.
Thats NOT defending McCoy, it is just highlighting that professional players are judged as much by the circumstances (not Sapp, not Suh) as performance AND always . . . always . . with hindsight (who else were the Bucs taking?)
HIDNDSIGHT
Just like there is no way the Bucs were passing on Winston at QB, there was s no way the Bucs were passing on McCoy and there was NO WAY they were ever getting Suh. So they KNOWINGLY took the 2nd best DT in the draft and they got 3 or 4 All-pro years out of him and about 60 sacks.
The easy alternative pick is freaking Trent Williams BUT for all the posts here about BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE (lol), the entire fans base wuits the Bucs if they draft Willaims, passing on Suh/McCoy) . . . when they already had . . . wait for it . . DONALD PENN
No way with Penn and a young new defensive head coach and, of course, the ghost of Sapp . . . that they were taking Trent Williams, even thogh they should have IF "best player available" and with a young "franchise" QB (the very premise of the Dominic/Morris years)
CIRCUMSTANCES
What they did NOT get with McCoy was a DT who blindsided a green Bay Packer lineman, ran through opposing teams warm up or who would get suspended and fined multiple times for unnecessary roughness etc. BUT, the McCoy pick did not come with Monet Kiffin or any of those other HOF stars and the Lions did NOT really fare any better with Suh, right? I think the Bucs 10 win season is McCoy's first and then the Lions 10 win season is Suh's second. maybe? BUT NEITHER TEAM got a SAPP-like return from drafting DT. Suh was gone in a few years. McCoys most productive sack seasons with the Bucs were as Suh was leaving and then left the Lions. And Suh left the Lions with a big contract offered.
Again, if there is no Sapp or Suh . . . like now . . .wouldnt everyone be happy if Kancey has a 10 year career here with 3 or 4 All-Pro season and 60 plus sacks? AND DONT SAY, "Kancey was drafted later" because teasm pick where they pick unless they trade back and Buc Nation REVOLTS if the Bucs dont take MCcoy . . even if that meant getting Trent Williams.
Keep in mind, almost all of the McCoy bashing is about . . . . HIS PERSONALITY. He's soft, he was too nice, he wasnt a leader or a game changer (like Sapp)
You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.
What’s nonsensical is you claiming McCoy was the best defensive player in the team.
almost on cue . . . the Lost Decade
"
That seemed to spark Gronk into reminding Talib that Morris, the former Bucs head coach (2009-2011), oversaw a mess in Tampa.
Here’s the painful exchange for Bucs fans.
Gronk: Aqib was part of that era in Tampa, too, where football was like secondary. It was all about the nightlife.
Talib: Yeah, yeah.
Gronk: It was all about what you were doing off the field from 2008 to 2012.
Talib: Our cars.
Gronk: I heard about those times in Tampa.
Talib: It was all about the parking lot. You know what I’m saying? (laughs)
Gronk: Yeah (laughs).
Talib: We used to have new whip Fridays, man. We’d get cars up here on Fridays. It was a car show, man.
Gronk: Hey, Thirsty Thursdays on Howard Street. I heard all about it (laughs).
Talib: Yeah, Thirsty Thursdays. Hey, I’m tellin’ you. We used to go down there, man. We ain’t really used to care about football. We was just happy to be there.
And McCoy was a LEADER of that group.
But oh well... LVD I know was annoyed with it but he also could have spoken up (more)
And McCoy was a LEADER of that group.
Really? I thought McCoy was like a choir boy, married high school girlfriend etc. He's out partying on Howard?
I know the HEAD COACH was supposedly part of that group
And McCoy was a LEADER of that group.
Really? I thought McCoy was like a choir boy, married high school girlfriend etc. He's out partying on Howard?
I know the HEAD COACH was supposedly part of that group
Yeah. He was a leader... And it's not like he was the only problem. But you can't be the highest paid player and act the way he did.
Not trying to pitpick TraskForce but Gruber played and won a playoff game against the Lions in 97....but that's beside the point. McCoy was soft and oft injured to start his career. Granted he was a bit healthier as his career progressed but I always felt like those teams early in his career lacked that fire-starting gritty player like Hardy Nickerson was with Sapp and DB55 that would not accept losing and held others accountable. Going back and re-visiting the suck that was the roster back then the only leaders on those teams from 2010-2012 (years GMac and LVD were drafted) was an aging non vocal Ronde Barber, Talib, lazy Albert Haynesworth, and later Tenard Jackson and (Soulja) Kellen Winslow. I had never seen the exchange between Gronk and Talib till now but now having read that and looking back it's kinda glaringly obvious that their priority wasn't football during Raheem's tenure. Then came "Toes on the line" and the wheels completely fell off.
Great summary.
McCoy was definitely not going to fill the leadership role of Hardy or Sapp and when he comes to the team it’s a just like Talib and Grobk describe it, from the HC down.
It's ok to call him soft and still say he was the best pick available when we picked in that draft. He wasn't a bust if that's what you are getting at. I do think we needed a suh or sapp at that position not a nice guy with the team we had. That yes is not his fault he was on that team, however I think being picked that high probably warranted more than what we actually got. I think that is where you will see people be upset. And ya he's not Sapp or suh which we wanted at that position. Not just a 3 technique. It's not his fault he was on bad teams but I think it's ok to want more than we got from him. Its also ok to call him soft when we saw that play where he tried to bow out when mid air. Nice guy and that is cool but I think we're finding out in general a lot of things nice doesn't translate always. Sometimes mean gets the job done.
Great post BB85
Never called him a bust. Never said he wasn't talented. Never said he was the only problem.
@firebowles2023 wasnt really speaking at you personally or anyone and I don't think buc fans think of him as a bust either. He was a good player for us. I think we all wanted more and that's ok. It all ended up working out for us I think. Big picture wise haha.
