I also love his continued support of the team. Its pretty cool of him i think. I love when I see any ex buc be loud about their support of the team they played for.
@firebowles2023 wasnt really speaking at you personally or anyone and I don't think buc fans think of him as a bust either. He was a good player for us. I think we all wanted more and that's ok. It all ended up working out for us I think. Big picture wise haha.
We all wanted a winning culture and he was a culprit for the losing culture.
And I didn't think you were attacking me.
@firebowles2023 wasnt really speaking at you personally or anyone and I don't think buc fans think of him as a bust either. He was a good player for us. I think we all wanted more and that's ok. It all ended up working out for us I think. Big picture wise haha.
We all wanted a winning culture and he was a culprit for the losing culture.
And I didn't think you were attacking me.
Its an interesting discussion
I would agree that McCoy was complicit in the losing culture from his era because he was never going to get everyone in line even though he was the de facto leader of most of those teams by virtue of his draft status and contract.
I don't think most would say the same about LVD though? He is the actual leader in many of those same years, BY VIRTUE OF HIS PLAY. He is/was a better player than McCoy but equally as quiet, in terms of leadership.
That difference is one reason I suggested McCoy get some of the stuff from fans because of the connection to Sapp and Suh. Does that happen without Sapp and Suh as the models for McCoy? Suh wasn't some vocal leader (not a criticism, he is awesome).
Anyway, interesting the way impressions are formed. No right or wrong
@firebowles2023 wasnt really speaking at you personally or anyone and I don't think buc fans think of him as a bust either. He was a good player for us. I think we all wanted more and that's ok. It all ended up working out for us I think. Big picture wise haha.
We all wanted a winning culture and he was a culprit for the losing culture.
And I didn't think you were attacking me.
I would agree that McCoy was complicit in the losing culture from his era because he was never going to get everyone in line even though he was the de facto leader of most of those teams by virtue of his draft status and contract.
I don't think most would say the same about LVD though? He is the actual leader in many of those same years, BY VIRTUE OF HIS PLAY. He is/was a better player than McCoy but equally as quiet, in terms of leadership.
That difference is one reason I suggested McCoy get some of the stuff from fans because of the connection to Sapp and Suh. Does that happen without Sapp and Suh as the models for McCoy? Suh wasn't some vocal leader (not a criticism, he is awesome).
What I am about to say I mean with no dis-respect to the man...He has always struck me as the nurturing "motherly" type where if something was done wrong, he'd likely respond with "that's okay we'll just try to do it better next time, we gave it our best effort" as opposed to Sapp or Nickerson's "you F*cked up...get it right or next time I might punch you in the face" response. I definitely agree that McCoy drew comparisons (maybe unfairly) to Sapp almost from the moment he arrived in Tampa, and it may not have helped matters with him training with Sapp his first couple of off-seasons or their ongoing feud in the ensuing years.
McCoy was certainly a very good player for us during a time that the team was definitely lacking in that area, and has the Pro Bowl accolades to show for it. He wanted desperately to be the superhero, but was ultimately better suited as the over-achieving sidekick ( he was the great Geraldini ). I wish that the Bucs could have gotten and enforcer at DT to pair with him ( I know they tried unsuccessfully between Price,Hovan,and Haynesworth ). I feel like had he had someone on his level to play games off of he could have reached even greater heights. Much like Sapp and Culpepper or later Booger.
I think part of what maybe made McCoy come across as "soft" aside from drawing the ire of his position coaches for helping opponents up, was apologizing to I think it was Big Ben in the middle of sacking him, especially when you contrast that with the hype that Suh was getting almost immediately for generally being that fiery lightning rod that was stomping on players after the play.....plus the fact he wasn't a hold you accountable vocal leader...He was the face of the defense, but he'd never get in anyone's face without giving it a second thought for underperforming. Can you imagine him getting in Blount, Talib, or Winslow's face ?
As for LVD he always reminded me of a more athletic and supremely successful Dave Moore. He was the blue-collar go to work, keep your head down and do your job type that has never been one to willingly put himself in front of a camera... Both McCoy and LVD were/are incredible players that I have a lot of appreciation for they just needed more talent around them during those lean years and of course a better GM to get those pieces around them.
