How much of an improvement has Schiano been over Raheem ?

michael89156 · 2013-12-14T07:22:19Z

Comparing Greg Schiano to Raheem Morris: Have the Buccaneers Improved Under Their New Head Coach?By Leo Howell - Dec 13th, 2013 at 8:58 pmNov 24, 2013; Detroit, MI, USA; Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coach Greg Schiano on the sidelines during the third quarter against the Detroit Lions at Ford Field. Andrew Weber-USA TODAY Sports Greg Schiano told season ticket holders at an event earlier this season that the Buccaneers were in a position of “needing” him, which he would later clarify meant the team needed his brand of discipline. But with the team sitting at 4-9 as they prepare for Schiano’s 30th game in charge, did they get what they bargained for in the authoritarian head coach? Since Schiano decided to bring Raheem Morris into the discussion, as the coach he replaced who left the team in “bad shape” and in need of Schiano’s presence, let’s compare Raheem Morris’ tenure in charge of the Buccaneers to that of Schiano. Wins The most important and obvious statistic of them all should be the first topic of discussion. And as we stand, Greg Schiano would need to win two of the final three games of the season to match the number of wins earned by Morris in his first two seasons in charge in Tampa Bay. And considering the obvious upgrades in talent from Morris’ time in Tampa to Schiano’s, I think it’s a fair argument to say Morris has the advantage here, even if he got a bit lucky in terms of schedule compared to the former Rutgers coach. Greg Schiano has the benefit of a veteran, healthy Gerald McCoy rather than Chris Hovan. He also has Vincent Jackson, who is far better than any receiver under Morris. The talent discrepancies could go on for a while, but most Buccaneer fans acknowledge that the front office didn’t exactly load the roster in the late 2000?s and early 2010?s. So it’s fair to say that Schiano’s inability to win football games leaves him trailing the coach he replaced.December 17, 2011; Tampa, FL, USA; Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coach Raheem Morris during the first quarter against the Dallas Cowboys at Raymond James Stadium. Kim Klement-USA TODAY Sports Offensive and Defensive Production The two coaches in question in this comparison had opposite effects on the offense upon their arrival. Raheem Morris didn’t have a quarterback when he arrived, and was handed Josh Freeman via the draft and groomed him into a productive starter by year two. Because of Freeman’s progress, the Bucs saw a leap from 30th to 20th in terms of total yards of offense in Morris’ second season. 20th still isn’t good, but with an improved defense, it was certainly good enough. For Schiano, the opposite is true. He acquired a quarterback with an inconsistent track record but plenty of talent which he put on display at times during the first year the new head coach had him under center. But Schiano and Freeman could no co-exist in the same locker room, so Schiano (whether the ordeal was his fault or not) forfeited his stability under center and let go of the signal caller. But despite the struggles on offense for both coaches, they had a similar impact on defense. The yardage rankings for the Tampa Bay defense shot up the charts in year two for both coaches. Morris improved his defense from 27th to ninth, while Schiano has improved his from 23rd to 12th. The downfall of the Schiano offense is certainly troublesome, but the blame can’t be entirely placed on Schiano. The Josh Freeman situation was damaging to the offense, but it should still be much better than it is. The team leaves plays on the field on a weekly basis, and makes awful mistakes which set them back. But we’ll call this category a push, for arguments’ sake, because both coaches saw improvements on defense and less-than-stellar offense. Turnover Margin Again, we have a category with similarity between Schiano and Morris. During Raheem’s first season in Tampa, the Buccaneers finished with the 22nd ranked turnover margin. In his second season, it improved to fifth. For Greg Schiano’s teams, the turnover margin improved from 12th to second. Both coaches helped limit mistakes and generate turnovers during their second year in charge, but Schiano did a better job at first of limiting mistakes and turning around a team which was dead last in turnover margin in 2011 in Morris. Sep 22, 2013; Foxborough, MA, USA; Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coach Greg Schiano against the New England Patriots during the second quarter of a game at Gillette Stadium. Brad Penner-USA TODAY SportsMissed Tackles Nothing ruins a good defensive plan like a missed tackle. Lining up a stop only to see a runner escape for more yardage ruins even the most well-designed calls on defense. But missed tackles aren’t only on the players. They’re a reflection of the coaching they receive, and the effort the players are putting forth at executing a basic fundamental of the game. And since Pro Football Focus began tracking missed tackles and other data in 2008, the Buccaneers have never had more missed stops than th...

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Lets just be real if schiano can't take the good talent accumalted over the last 2 years to more then 4 wins he's a terrible coach. He's still bad either way. I could make a case that if schiano had that 2010 talent level team that went 10-6 playing a soft schedule schiano probably wouldn't of gotten 2 wins out of that group. what wins we do have this year the players have won in spite of schiano not because of hin

::)

Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 2:58 pm

Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest The fact that this thread exists after witnessing 2011 is all you need to know about Schiano. He is a terrible coach. There is no reason in season two that we should be in this bad a shape. http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusfantasyexperts/Yup-he-looks-ready-USAT-Images.jp g" alt="Yup-he-looks-ready-USAT-Images.jpg" class="bbcode_img" />you may be right, but this is the reason he likely get another year . . . well, this and Glennon. He will get to stay because he has 3 years remaining. The obambacare rollout folks laugh at how he handled the Freeman transition. A real coach would have sat him down from day one and done a Bellicheat, next question type of presser. Because we all know Schiano, a second year coach out of college, has the stature of Belichick . . . ;) Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 3:46 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest Fuck both of them.I'm just saying that it's pathetic that schiano can't do better with more talent than a glorified db coach. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 3:53 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest What Rah has done with Freeman is far beyond what Gruden did. Yes, he gained TB a Lombardi, but he also didn't find a franchise QB that will be serviceable for the next ten years either. No matter if Rah is there or not, Freeman now will be, and that's very comforting. Now TB will be in contention for the next ten years no matter who the HC is. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 4:18 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest Holy Bump Batman . . . 2011 again Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 4:20 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest What Rah has done with Freeman is far beyond what Gruden did. Yes, he gained TB a Lombardi, but he also didn't find a franchise QB that will be serviceable for the next ten years either. No matter if Rah is there or not, Freeman now will be, and that's very comforting. Now TB will be in contention for the next ten years no matter who the HC is. Shows that some also shouldn't rush to jump to conclusions about Glennon either. Freeman had a fantastic season and the Bucs went 10-6. Not many Bucs fans came out of that particular season as low as we are right now and that can't be debated.Raheem at least gave me a season full of hope and a season where I wasn't looking at mock drafts during October planning for the next offseason. His last season was as miserable as it gets, but as a fan, at least he gave me one season in which it was entertaining to watch this team until the very last snap. I've been checked out on this season for a while now to be honest, and while I still watch the games, and cheer for the Bucs, its a different feeling as a fan when there is something actually on the line. Holding comparisons completely aside, I guess, its whether you believe Schiano will ever be able to give you as a fan a legitimate belief that this team will make the playoffs. I have seen nothing in his two years (heck, nothing from his time at RU either) that says he is capable in that respect. Point to our recent momentum and wins this season all you want and I'll point you to our team not really doing anything differently in those games than in other losses this season - put simply, the other team lost those games (Miami, Detroit especially) more than we actually won it. Then point me to this team holding it together and not quitting on the season, and I'll point you to the difference from having not only Revis, Vjax, Goldson and other Vets in the locker room where there was really only Ronde before - but also McCoy, Foster, Penn, and other guys who were on that team that quit, saw how the team got torn apart after, and can talk about not doing it again. That's not Schiano - that's locker room experience. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 4:51 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest Mancrush? lolz So the answer is no position in 3 years did not need to be rebuilt. Not upgraded. Rebuilt. 3 years, 6 1st/2nd round picks (plus 2nd rounder traded for winslow) and not one position was set when Morris was let go. What units were "rebuilt"?QB - Unless Glennon shows more, this is a wash. Freeman at his best was better than Glennon at his best so far.O-Line - The only opening day starter on O-Line that wasn't here when Morris was was Carl Nicks, a free agent acquisition.WR/TE - Vincent Jackson, a free agent acquisition, is the only upgrade. This unit is arguably worse as a whole than it was under Morris, even though more attention has been paid to it under Schiano.RB - Rainey was a find. James "might" be too. Martin is good, but so was Blount.D-Line - Hasn't been rebuilt. Hasn't even been upgraded. Jettisoning Michael Bennett was an idiotic Schiano move.LB's- Only one starter was added, and the depth is a wash. David was an upgrade. The unit has not been "rebuit". CB's/Safeties - This unit has been rebuilt, by Dominick tossing tons of cash at it. A luxury Morris didn't have.Once again, olaf overstating things for affect. "THE WHOLE TEAM NEEDED TO BE REBULT! SO MANY MESSES!" Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 6:16 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest They post that like they're trying to bring me down or something.I was wrong about freeman and I damn sure didn't see the drug problem happening. I make no argument with that.I gained from it. I gained the wisdom that one good showing doesn't mean squat, and in the nfl there is a timeframe for all players. The timeframe is different for all of them. Some last a few games, some a year or two, and some lonely few last for an entire career.Now that glennon has tape, he's going to continue to be average to poor. His "lifespan" will be over soon if there aren't major changes. Same with schiano.Unfortunately, I was right about this team since the jets game, and that opinion gets confused with hate. I hate schiano for being a bad game day coach and a control freak. It's not any worse than what anyone else is thinking or saying. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 6:32 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest "It's not any worse than what anyone else is thinking or saying."You're just unable to stop yourself from saying it ten times as often. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 6:37 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest They post that like they're trying to bring me down or something.I was wrong about freeman and I damn sure didn't see the drug problem happening. I make no argument with that.I gained from it. I gained the wisdom that one good showing doesn't mean squat, and in the nfl there is a timeframe for all players. The timeframe is different for all of them. Some last a few games, some a year or two, and some lonely few last for an entire career.Now that glennon has tape, he's going to continue to be average to poor. His "lifespan" will be over soon if there aren't major changes. Same with schiano.Unfortunately, I was right about this team since the jets game, and that opinion gets confused with hate. I hate schiano for being a bad game day coach and a control freak. It's not any worse than what anyone else is thinking or saying. I felt the same way at that point in time to be honest. Maybe not that Rah had done more than Gruden - I loved Gruden - but I thought Freeman was the Bucs QB for the next decade as well after 2010. It is what it is. He certainly showed enough, for me at least, to warrant that consideration. And when we started 4-2 the next year I was just as psyched. I bought tickets, airfare and went to the Bears game in London and saw the start of the epic meltdown. I still think whatever happened on that trip - we've heard inklings about Talib - was the downfall of the Raheem tenure. It was just a completely different vibe after that game for everyone.But you could probably find posts from 80% of this board back after that 2010 season which alluded to similar type stuff. Agree - I don't know what the point of it was other than to remind us how excited we were as a fanbase. I sure would love to be that excited again. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 6:41 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest Is there something wrong with being a spirited fan that wants better for their team?If you can honestly say this is ok, either you have blinders on or are invested in schiano in some way.Voicing our opinion is the only tool we have for the glazers to do anything, besides ticket sales, and that's not even as much of an option as it used to be. Excuse me if you don't like my opinion, but it is what it is.Again, no more or less important than anyone else's. It just is. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 6:44 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest Is there something wrong with being a spirited fan that wants better for their team?If you can honestly say this is ok, either you have blinders on or are invested in schiano in some way.Voicing our opinion is the only tool we have for the glazers to do anything, besides ticket sales, and that's not even as much of an option as it used to be. Excuse me if you don't like my opinion, but it is what it is.Again, no more or less important than anyone else's. It just is. Lol. Bench The Victim Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 6:52 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest And jay, i'm also pretty sure that was taken out of context when I was talking about length of time a staff gets when finding a franchise qb. Later on I probably mentioned dom getting a lifetime mulligan because of it.Im not going to use that to lie though, as I fell for Freeman's dual skillset of run and pass. That stopped for whatever reason though, which goes back to my above statement about time. Time and bad change killed this guys career. Well, besides drugs that is.I don't think glennon would ever fall off like that, but imo, he gives away way too much body language to be a good nfl qb week in, week out. He won't have a fall off, but his ceiling is limited.Which brings me back to schiano and raheem. Both were bad coaches, and with both we have to wonder what the actual level of talent is.Which makes me go back to draft and think we cannot not pick a qb in the first. Ugh. Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 6:55 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest Who could you win more games with?GENO Hayes or Lavonte David?Sean Jones or Goldson? EJ Biggers or Darrelle Revis? TJack or Barron? Arellious Benn or Vincent Jackson? Posted : Dec. 17, 2013 7:07 pm Anonymous (@Anonymous) Posts: 0 Cabin Boy Guest Who could you win more games with?GENO Hayes or Lavonte David?Sean Jones or Goldson? EJ Biggers or Darrelle Revis? TJack or Barron? Arellious Benn or Vincent Jackson? Schiano is a special kind of bad : Posted : Dec. 18, 2013 1:33 am

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How much of an improvement has Schiano been over Raheem ?

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