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I guess White is Hard to Tackle

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Avatar Of Blayton Cigsby
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Posted by: @jc5100

Posted by: @bucsbits

Posted by: @jc5100

Posted by: @bucsbits

Posted by: @jc5100

It [would] be advantageous (that means good for the Bucs) to be a high volume running team

In 2024 Detroit and Atlanta were the signature two back run teams (ie Eagles, Ravens and Commanders had running QBs)

Lions RA/game: 30.9

Falcons RA/game: 29.1

Buccaneers RA/game: 28.2

:-)

 

Even if you go with the top run teams, the Eagles were 36.7 RA/game BUT with Hurts averaging 10 RA/game. The ravens are 33.4 RA/game with Jackson average 8 RA/game. The Commanders are 31.3 RA/game, but with Daniels averaging 9 RA/game.

Baker Mayfield averaged only 3.5 RA per game. 

28 per game. Cool with me. 14 for Irving, 14 for Tucker, 0 for White. 

 

 

JC, do you agree that in 2024 ONE reason that White was played over Tucker was PASS PRO?

You don't have to agree that White was superior at PASS PRO (he was), but that is a LEGIT reason that in 2024 Tucker < White?

 

I agree to that. Do you agree Coen called too many passes? Especially at Carolina, vs LV, at DAL, vs NO?

 

 

So, if you agree White >Tucker at PassPro then most of the stuff you are posting here dissolves, at least as to 2024

And that is even MORE true if you think that Coen passed TOO MUCH in 2024 because you conceded those would be quite a few snaps going to White over Tucker (Pass pro)

I definitely agree that Coen was far from infallible and like most OCs he fought over passing, but the run-pass split of a game is often driven by the game itself and of the FOUR games you pick as examples ("at Carolina, vs LV, at DAL, vs NO?") you have 3 of 4 where the Bucs are trailing at half time. Thats a glaring omission  to begin with, but all the more so because you're on here PUMPING UP TUCKER based largely on the FIRST New Orleans game where we have at least a quarter of Coen RUNNING TUCKER against a depleted and defeat offense

Every poster here makes that point to you over and over lol

 

 

 

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 11:57 am
Avatar Of Blayton Cigsby
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Posted by: @jc5100

I agree to that.

This is in Josh Qs 3rd down success article today

"One underrated part of the Bucs’ third down offense last year was how they dealt with blitz pickups, and this was on full display on this play. The offensive line has to quickly read and react to multiple players dropping and coming. Graham Barton makes a great decision to strike Grady Jarrett and pass him right to Cody Mauch in an effort to deploy more protection assets to the play side. He then doubles the 3-technique.

Rachaad White is able to quickly scan and come across the pocket to pick up the blitz and the entire operation gives Mayfield the time he needs to make an on-time throw for a 29-yard catch and run. Otton finishes it picking up tons of yards after catch and forcing a missed tackle."

The play he's describing is aa disguised blitz by the falcons that the Bucs beat for a 1st down:

"Once again, the Bucs try to get a pre-snap tell by putting Otton in motion and once again the Falcons opt to not tip their hand, sticking with their two-high shell. And with a six-man surface they look to be coming with extra rushers. But post-snap they hope a complete picture change confuses Mayfield into a mistake.

They do come with a blitz, but it’s a slot blitz behind a Cover 3 look while dropping a third of their surface."

 

So, AGAIN, if you agree that White > Tucker in pass pro AND you say Coen passed too much, you cant also suggest that Tucker was a Emmitt Smith-like victim of a conspiracy (eg draft status etc) because BY YOUR OWN LOGIC he's losing out early down snaps to Irving and late down snaps to White.

 

That was 2024.

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 12:12 pm
Avatar Of Blayton Cigsby
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JC, before you try to move the ball . . AGAIN . .  this is you in May

 

Posted by: @jc5100

Coen is the most overrated Bucs player or coach in franchise history. 

Offense should be 50% Bucky and Tucker runs. 

White is a complete detriment to the offense. 

 

Today you agree that White > Tucker in pass pro SO he cant be a "complete detriment to the offense." NO NFL offense is only running and you say Coen passed too much in 2024 (ie pass pro extra important).

 

hahah and Coen as "most overrated" player or coach in franchise history."  silly

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 12:47 pm
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Posted by: @bucsbits

Posted by: @jc5100

Posted by: @bucsbits

Posted by: @jc5100

Posted by: @bucsbits

Posted by: @jc5100

It [would] be advantageous (that means good for the Bucs) to be a high volume running team

In 2024 Detroit and Atlanta were the signature two back run teams (ie Eagles, Ravens and Commanders had running QBs)

Lions RA/game: 30.9

Falcons RA/game: 29.1

Buccaneers RA/game: 28.2

:-)

 

Even if you go with the top run teams, the Eagles were 36.7 RA/game BUT with Hurts averaging 10 RA/game. The ravens are 33.4 RA/game with Jackson average 8 RA/game. The Commanders are 31.3 RA/game, but with Daniels averaging 9 RA/game.

Baker Mayfield averaged only 3.5 RA per game. 

28 per game. Cool with me. 14 for Irving, 14 for Tucker, 0 for White. 

 

 

JC, do you agree that in 2024 ONE reason that White was played over Tucker was PASS PRO?

You don't have to agree that White was superior at PASS PRO (he was), but that is a LEGIT reason that in 2024 Tucker < White?

 

I agree to that. Do you agree Coen called too many passes? Especially at Carolina, vs LV, at DAL, vs NO?

 

 

So, if you agree White >Tucker at PassPro then most of the stuff you are posting here dissolves, at least as to 2024

And that is even MORE true if you think that Coen passed TOO MUCH in 2024 because you conceded those would be quite a few snaps going to White over Tucker (Pass pro)

I definitely agree that Coen was far from infallible and like most OCs he fought over passing, but the run-pass split of a game is often driven by the game itself and of the FOUR games you pick as examples ("at Carolina, vs LV, at DAL, vs NO?") you have 3 of 4 where the Bucs are trailing at half time. Thats a glaring omission  to begin with, but all the more so because you're on here PUMPING UP TUCKER based largely on the FIRST New Orleans game where we have at least a quarter of Coen RUNNING TUCKER against a depleted and defeat offense

Every poster here makes that point to you over and over lol

 

 

 

Saying that the score dictated the pass/run ratios is not an omission by me. The Bucs were losing because of the run/pass ratios. 

vs New Orleans in the first half Baker was 9/17, 69 yards, 0 TDs. Bucky had 4 carries for 36 yards (9ypc). White chipped in with 1 carry for 0 yards and Tucker was rotting on the bench. Bucs had 6 points at half time and the media is writing the fire Bowles articles. 

at Dallas. Cowboys were 31st in run defense. On the first 2 drives of the game Duval called 8 passes, one White run and one Bucky run. 0 points. Why are you opening the game 80% pass vs a bottom run defense? Why are you in empty on 3rd and 3 in 4 down territory? Again, people were blaming Bowles. 

vs Raiders. Bucs jump out 14-0 vs a bad team. Run the damn ball. With Bucky out this is a perfect time to let Tucker loose. What do we see after being up 14-0?

Baker pick

Baker fumble

3rd and 23 after calling passes on 1st and 2nd down

Oh he finally gives Sean Tucker a carry? 9 yards on 1st down. 2nd and 1? Baker pick!

In a game Tucker should have gotten 20 carries he finished with 3 carries for 47 yards. What a fucking joke. 

at Carolina. Panthers were 32nd in rush defense. Bucs are vertically displacing them. This is the biggest mismatch I've seen in a Bucs game at the line of scrimmage. Bucs OL is putting people in body bags. The only reason that game was close was because Baker was throwing picks and taking sacks on run downs. 1st down, 2nd and short, 3rd and short. Bucs should have run the ball 50 times that game. 

 

 

 

 

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 7:15 pm
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Posted by: @bucsbits

JC, before you try to move the ball . . AGAIN . .  this is you in May

 

Posted by: @jc5100

Coen is the most overrated Bucs player or coach in franchise history. 

Offense should be 50% Bucky and Tucker runs. 

White is a complete detriment to the offense. 

 

Today you agree that White > Tucker in pass pro SO he cant be a "complete detriment to the offense." NO NFL offense is only running and you say Coen passed too much in 2024 (ie pass pro extra important).

 

hahah and Coen as "most overrated" player or coach in franchise history."  silly

How is me wanting the offense to be 50% Bucky and Tucker runs "only running". And there's a direct negative correlation between White's touches and the offense scoring. The less he touches the ball the more they score. 

 

This post was modified 2 days ago by JC5100
 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 7:19 pm
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Posted by: @jc5100

Why are you in empty on 3rd and 3 in 4 down territory? Again, people were blaming Bowles. 

Because Bowles would have punted on 4th and 1 or kicked a long fg

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 8:42 pm
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Posted by: @firebowles2023

Posted by: @jc5100

Why are you in empty on 3rd and 3 in 4 down territory? Again, people were blaming Bowles. 

Because Bowles would have punted on 4th and 1 or kicked a long fg

Offense went for it on 4th down and didn’t convert you fucking dumbass. 

 

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 8:55 pm
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Tucker will get more carries this year its definitely happening. Why? Because white is a free agent next year and will probably look at a pay raise. We have Tucker who can do what white can do maybe not as great as a receiver but he's a better runner imo. If we need bucky to take a break I see white and Tucker split but i think tucker will get more than he did last year. Whoever is better on that day will get more carries altogether tho. 

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 10:31 pm
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Posted by: @jc5100

Posted by: @firebowles2023

Posted by: @jc5100

Why are you in empty on 3rd and 3 in 4 down territory? Again, people were blaming Bowles. 

Because Bowles would have punted on 4th and 1 or kicked a long fg

Offense went for it on 4th down and didn’t convert you fucking dumbass. 

 

 The drive where Shepard dropped it? And then the following drive where we punted on 4th and 1?

Yeah I'm such a dumbass. Bowles was quite the dice roller all season. 

There's a reason everyone is laughing at you and this moronic "Tucker is the GOAT" because of one game. 

 

 
Posted : Jul. 21, 2025 10:39 pm
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Posted by: @jc5100

Check again. It's clearly answere

Again, you ducked it. 

It’s a simple question, that again, you refuse to answer. 

Is Tucker a better RB than Bucky?

It’s a yes or no question. 

 
Posted : Jul. 22, 2025 6:52 am
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Posted by: @donkey_hunter

Posted by: @jc5100

Check again. It's clearly answere

Again, you ducked it. 

It’s a simple question, that again, you refuse to answer. 

Is Tucker a better RB than Bucky?

It’s a yes or no question. 

It's not a yes or no question. If I want them to get an equal amount of carries that means I view them as equals. 

Using simple numbers. 250 carries for Bucky. 250 carries for Tucker. 500 pass attempts. No more White carries. No more jet sweeps. 

 

This post was modified 2 days ago by JC5100
 
Posted : Jul. 22, 2025 8:26 am
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Posted by: @jc5100

If I want them to get an equal amount of carries that means I view them as equals. 

So, you’re saying Tucker is just as good of a RB as Bucky. 

Interesting…

 
Posted : Jul. 22, 2025 8:46 am
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Posted by: @jc5100

Posted by: @bucsbits

JC, before you try to move the ball . . AGAIN . .  this is you in May

 

Posted by: @jc5100

Coen is the most overrated Bucs player or coach in franchise history. 

Offense should be 50% Bucky and Tucker runs. 

White is a complete detriment to the offense. 

 

Today you agree that White > Tucker in pass pro SO he cant be a "complete detriment to the offense." NO NFL offense is only running and you say Coen passed too much in 2024 (ie pass pro extra important).

 

hahah and Coen as "most overrated" player or coach in franchise history."  silly

How is me wanting the offense to be 50% Bucky and Tucker runs "only running". And there's a direct negative correlation between White's touches and the offense scoring. The less he touches the ball the more they score. 

 

 

If you acknowledge (as you do) that White is better than Tucker in pass pro, White is obviously playing more in an offense that you think passes too much  (an offense is NOT just running).  And White cannot be a "complete detriment" to the offense because he's providing the pass pro (and the catches and the runs and the scores). The Bucs probbaly pass 55% in 2024, so that means that on up to 55% of the offensive plays White is CORRECTLY on over Tucker.

You're posting in circles 

 

 
Posted : Jul. 22, 2025 8:50 am
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Posted by: @jc5100

It's not a yes or no question. If I want them to get an equal amount of carries that means I view them as equals. 

Why are they equals? You've analyzed the analytics. As you've shown repeatedly, Tucker has better stats than Irving:

 

Posted by: @jc5100

YPC

Tucker 6.2

Irving 5.4

White 4.3

 

Rushing EPA/Play

Tucker 0.2

Irving 0.1

White -0.11

Success Rate

Tucker 56%

Irving 55%

White 51%

First Down %

Tucker 34%

Irving 25%

White 24%

Explosive Run %

Tucker 16%

Irving 12%

White 8%

 

Those are the same stats you're using to say that Tucker is better than White. So why stop there? If Tucker is better than White based on these stats, then he's also better than Irving based on those stats.

I'm guessing you know that is the point that is being made, which is why you're still ducking (it's not a yes or no question) the question. It would further annihilate the foolish argument you've been making for months on-end with zero success.

 
Posted : Jul. 22, 2025 9:07 am
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Posted by: @bucsbits

Posted by: @jc5100

Posted by: @bucsbits

JC, before you try to move the ball . . AGAIN . .  this is you in May

 

Posted by: @jc5100

Coen is the most overrated Bucs player or coach in franchise history. 

Offense should be 50% Bucky and Tucker runs. 

White is a complete detriment to the offense. 

 

Today you agree that White > Tucker in pass pro SO he cant be a "complete detriment to the offense." NO NFL offense is only running and you say Coen passed too much in 2024 (ie pass pro extra important).

 

hahah and Coen as "most overrated" player or coach in franchise history."  silly

How is me wanting the offense to be 50% Bucky and Tucker runs "only running". And there's a direct negative correlation between White's touches and the offense scoring. The less he touches the ball the more they score. 

 

 

If you acknowledge (as you do) that White is better than Tucker in pass pro, White is obviously playing more in an offense that you think passes too much  (an offense is NOT just running).  And White cannot be a "complete detriment" to the offense because he's providing the pass pro (and the catches and the runs and the scores). The Bucs probbaly pass 55% in 2024, so that means that on up to 55% of the offensive plays White is CORRECTLY on over Tucker.

You're posting in circles 

 

LOL at "probably pass 55% in 2024". The distribution of play calls was 62% pass, 38% run. 

Breakdown

52% Baker throws

6% Baker scramble

4% Baker sacked

19% Bucky runs

13% White Runs

4% Tucker runs

2% Jet Sweep

Irving and Tucker carries combining for just 23% of the offense when their analytics were literally off the charts is coaching malpractice. 

 

 
Posted : Jul. 22, 2025 9:20 am
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