@firebowles2023 as usual, nicely broken down.
Although, the line regarding not trading up, again, after doing it the year before, is a bit subjective. Trade capital & impact were likely being assessed. It gets expensive.
The part about group-think is very relative to the discussion. We don’t know who makes final decisions, or how it actually works. It’s likely very influenced by need, despite what we hear.
Overall, appreciate the time it takes folks like you & Biggs to dig these things out, even if I don’t always agree, it is good to get context.
@firebowles2023 as usual, nicely broken down.
Although, the line regarding not trading up, again, after doing it the year before, is a bit subjective. Trade capital & impact were likely being assessed. It gets expensive.
The part about group-think is very relative to the discussion. We don’t know who makes final decisions, or how it actually works. It’s likely very influenced by need, despite what we hear.
Overall, appreciate the time it takes folks like you & Biggs to dig these things out, even if I don’t always agree, it is good to get context.
Thanks man... Always nice to see some friendly banter as long as it doesn't consume the board. 😏
Bucs don't lack talent on defense. These are Bowles hand picked players for his scheme specifically.
Bucs defense just needs to play NFL average down the stretch and the Bucs have a good shot of sneaking into playoffs or stealing another division title by flying under the radar.
There is a talent deficit if the guy you drafted (JTS, Anthony Nelson, maybe Braswell) is a flop! Trading up one spot may have cost more for the assessed value and they settled on a player like JTS - who I believe had one good year in college - but not much outside of that, and Anthony Nelson. Many industry folks labeled JTS a reach, no surprise, it was.
Some players may need more development, so I’m leaving the door open for Braswell, but we knew relying on a rookie would likely be an issue / it was, too. Hes flashed, and had a lot of almost… but..
Yaya hasn’t had as many moments as we’d hoped, but not signing off if that one - but it’s looking like he needs someone off the other edge to leverage some success.
There IS a lack of talent on this defense, but many agreed that were missed, and that the cap issues had limits on what we could do to augment those draft failures. Defense hasn’t had the infusion of talent that the offense has had.
Bucs don't lack talent on defense.
Not sure how you can say that? Maybe you mean that as an overall team statement, but compared to last year or the Super Bowl team the defense is a mess, right? We are bringing in Hill off the street and brought back Mike Edwards. We have Vi Jones stepping in to replace . . . BRITT, who i think grades out as one of the worst LBs in the league?
All NFL teams have gaps on their rosters and it up to the coaches to scheme properly. Bowles will be tested down the stretch and to see how he adapts post bye week schematically.
The Bucs defense on paper is still good enough to be NFL average and that is all they need to do to win games as the offense is capable of so much more.
Looking at the broader picture the Bucs couldn't have dumped Davis and Dean in one off season. So they traded Davis and giving Dean another audition which he isn't doing so well as he is injured again. Just means the Bucs will continue their reset of the secondary in 2025. Same at LB as we knew that LVD is one step from retirement and Britt was in a contract year.
So really Bowles has the players in place to play his scheme and this is where down the stretch we have to see the young players in the front seven step up. It is as simple as that.
We lack talent at two key positions: edge rusher and LB.
Dean (healthy) and McCollum is solid + Tykee
Whitehead and Winfield are good but playing poorly.
Vea and Kancey are good.
Depth is awful
We lack talent at two key positions: edge rusher and LB.
Dean (healthy) and McCollum is solid + Tykee
Whitehead and Winfield are good but playing poorly.
Vea and Kancey are good.
Depth is awful
The Bucs chose to punt at edge rusher this off season by not trading for a proven edge rusher or signing in free agency a legit edge to start. But they did draft Braswell so they are really evaluating what they have at the edge position. I think they may have over valued their own players to be honest but it doesn't hurt to see what you have before committing a lot of money to the position in 2025 when there will be more cap space to work with. Plus, there is plenty of the season left to see what they have.
So I am not sure why people are surprised but I do agree the Bucs defense is capable of at least playing up to NFL average. Bowles has to have them ready for the rest of the season.
The Bucs chose to punt at edge rusher this off season by not trading for a proven edge rusher or signing in free agency a legit edge to start. But they did draft Braswell so they are really evaluating what they have at the edge position. I think they may have over valued their own players to be honest but it doesn't hurt to see what you have before committing a lot of money to the position in 2025 when there will be more cap space to work with
agreed
This is one reason I have posted that the Bucs did not see this as an all-in Super Bowl year
Ironically there is an article out today singing Licht's praises for drafting:
"So only four teams since 2014 have drafted a higher percentage of Pro Bowlers than Licht (see graphic below). And 2014 was the same season Licht came to Tampa Bay and took over the draft."
But that article also goes on to further credit Licht for all the FREE AGENTS he has brought in, Barrett, JPP. Suh, Lenny etc.
POINT: they know how to bring them in and have done so successfully, so it should stand out that the did NOT this offseason.
The Bucs chose to punt at edge rusher this off season by not trading for a proven edge rusher or signing in free agency a legit edge to start. But they did draft Braswell so they are really evaluating what they have at the edge position. I think they may have over valued their own players to be honest but it doesn't hurt to see what you have before committing a lot of money to the position in 2025 when there will be more cap space to work with
agreed
This is one reason I have posted that the Bucs did not see this as an all-in Super Bowl year
I think Licht and the coaching staff had this conversations with the Glazers which is why the Bucs didn't even entertain the thought of trading for a player during the season.
Truthfully this is a continuation of last year with a focus to see what the Bucs have and don't have on their roster and what the young players show down the stretch.
FIRE has made this point about AWJ many times but here is its in STATS. Note the bottom part in bold:
"That pales in comparison to last year when he was a one-man defensive wrecking crew:
2023: 17 games, 122 total tackles, 12 passes defended, six forced fumbles, six sacks, four fumble recoveries, three interceptions
2024: Six games, 48 total tackles, two passes defended, one sack, one fumble recovery
What is most concerning has been Winfield’s tackling. His missed-tackle percentage has increased from 7.9% to 12% (per Pro Football Focus), and after being graded the best safety by PFF out of 95 players last year, he now ranks 80th out of 89 players.
One could (and should) have expected his play to regress slightly, but not to this extent. Maybe he would not be the best safety, but still top-5 or top-10. The fact he has dropped off this much correlates with the Bucs’ defense’s own struggles, and they badly need him to bounce back."
Yeah a couple things. Even without those stats, the eye ball test on Winfield this year is really bad. It's not that he's playing poorly it's that he's playing poorly in big moments and trying to do too much. Recently he missed a huge tackle on Jennings during the game winning drive, and he also had an easy pass break up on Hopkins for that deep pass that Mahomes inexplicably threw into double coverage (side note Mahomes hasnt been good this year).
There's other examples but if you just watch him you can easily see he's not playing well... And if he wants to be the highest paid safety he has to play better or we are fucked.
As far as Licht's drafting I think he's been pretty dang good as of late and we can all arm charm QB him to death... But my biggest grip are his picks in or near the 2nd round and going after mediocre edge players that are drafted too high (Hall, JTS, Braswell) instead of getting a really good LB or safety there. Going need over BPA rarely works out unless you're an elite team and you just need a few pieces to make your run.
Obviously I hated the Trask pick and still hate it. I hate that keeps drafting kickers/punters. I hate that he doesn't draft CBs late (lots of gems) and I hate that he took Devin White over Josh Allen.
But the rest of his body of work is really quite good.
Yeah a couple things. Even without those stats, the eye ball test on Winfield this year is really bad. It's not that he's playing poorly it's that he's playing poorly in big moments and trying to do too much. Recently he missed a huge tackle on Jennings during the game winning drive, and he also had an easy pass break up on Hopkins for that deep pass that Mahomes inexplicably threw into double coverage (side note Mahomes hasnt been good this year).
There's other examples but if you just watch him you can easily see he's not playing well... And if he wants to be the highest paid safety he has to play better or we are fucked.
As far as Licht's drafting I think he's been pretty dang good as of late and we can all arm charm QB him to death... But my biggest grip are his picks in or near the 2nd round and going after mediocre edge players that are drafted too high (Hall, JTS, Braswell) instead of getting a really good LB or safety there. Going need over BPA rarely works out unless you're an elite team and you just need a few pieces to make your run.
Obviously I hated the Trask pick and still hate it. I hate that keeps drafting kickers/punters. I hate that he doesn't draft CBs late (lots of gems) and I hate that he took Devin White over Josh Allen.
But the rest of his body of work is really quite good.
agree with all of that
I even agree with the approach they seem to be using now, which is to get the credit card paid off while seeing what we've got in draft picks, young players. Frustrating for the "win now" crowd but probably the best way for the team long term.
I think that plan was just interrupted by better than expected results because of schedule, no injuries etc.