But that's besides the point because we haven't seen the pretty decent-to-almost good Freeman from 2010, part of 2011, and part of 2012 for a while. It looks more and more like that guy doesn't exist anymore. Which should be the point.
The point is the Bucs did not give Freeman an environment to succeed. The evidence to support that is overwhelming. And almost-good? He had stretches where he was lights out and the Bucs were losing because the team around him so bad. Given the same defenses Sanchez, Dalton, Wilson, Kaepernick and Newton have had the Bucs would have been the #1 seed in 2012.
But that's besides the point because we haven't seen the pretty decent-to-almost good Freeman from 2010, part of 2011, and part of 2012 for a while. It looks more and more like that guy doesn't exist anymore. Which should be the point.
The point is the Bucs did not give Freeman an environment to succeed. The evidence to support that is overwhelming. And almost-good? He had stretches where he was lights out and the Bucs were losing because the team around him so bad. Given the same defenses Sanchez, Dalton, Wilson, Kaepernick and Newton have had the Bucs would have been the #1 seed in 2012.
No, the Bucs would not have been the #1 seed. They had a really sh*tty QB.
It sounds like Freeman is going to Oakland to start there. Wouldn't that just piss off most of the people here who think he's not going to start in the NFL again. :p
On the flip side, if he failed to win that job would the nut huggers finally wake up? My guess is no and more excuses will flow.
That's the fun part. Those of us who don't care either way get entertained!
Ten something years ago.Their fondest memory since then was russell. Yay.Freeman won't get a starting gig, and will be lucky to backup. Teams, yes, including the raiders, will avoid him.Plus, there are better fa backup/possible starters. He's screwed.
And the Buc's have NEVER had a league MVP QB. It's really sad we think Oakland is bad when we are worse.
No, the Bucs would not have been the #1 seed. They had a really sh*tty QB.
So why did the Bucs start 6-7 when he had a 91.1 rating?
JC, it's a suppositional argument. You believe that it's true, so to you it's true. No one is ever going to be able to prove you wrong, and you're never going to be able to convince anyone you're right because you are only using facts that support your arguments while filling in the blanks with "what if's".Yes, if Josh had the #1 defense and that defense had helped him win games then he would probably still be here. Instead, we needed a guy who could carry the whole thing on his shoulders and Josh just isn't that type of guy. Even you have admitted that he needs a high powered defense and offensive playmakers in order to be a winning QB.If that's your only point than I think pretty much everyone here is in agreement with you. However, we needed him to be more than that and he wasn't. So now he isn't here anymore.Is there some other point you're trying to make on top of that?
That Adderall sure worked good... at first.
But that's besides the point because we haven't seen the pretty decent-to-almost good Freeman from 2010, part of 2011, and part of 2012 for a while. It looks more and more like that guy doesn't exist anymore. Which should be the point.
The point is the Bucs did not give Freeman an environment to succeed. The evidence to support that is overwhelming. And almost-good? He had stretches where he was lights out and the Bucs were losing because the team around him so bad. Given the same defenses Sanchez, Dalton, Wilson, Kaepernick and Newton have had the Bucs would have been the #1 seed in 2012.
The bad defense didn't prevent Freeman from succeeding. The bad defense prevented the team from succeeding but in some of those games Freeman played well. Then he quit playing well ever whether the defense sucked or not. And here we are.
JC, it's a suppositional argument. You believe that it's true, so to you it's true. No one is ever going to be able to prove you wrong, and you're never going to be able to convince anyone you're right because you are only using facts that support your arguments while filling in the blanks with "what if's".Yes, if Josh had the #1 defense and that defense had helped him win games then he would probably still be here. Instead, we needed a guy who could carry the whole thing on his shoulders and Josh just isn't that type of guy. Even you have admitted that he needs a high powered defense and offensive playmakers in order to be a winning QB.If that's your only point than I think pretty much everyone here is in agreement with you. However, we needed him to be more than that and he wasn't. So now he isn't here anymore.Is there some other point you're trying to make on top of that?
Absolutely not. I'm just using elite defense as an example because that is what his peers have been given. Where was the elite defense in 2010? It was #17. If I'm following you correctly the Bucs needed Freeman to be Manning, Rodgers or Brady and that's why he's not here? I see it like he's not here anymore because a perfect storm of...1. Schiano having a pro-Glennon agenda dating back to when Glennon was in high school2. Bucs giving Schiano too much power to release Freeman instead of putting him in rehab. Or atleast just deactivate him and let the new regime evaluate him. 3. Fans never took to Freeman because they give QBs too much credit for wins and too much blame for losses. Garcia was adored here for basically just being under center around a pretty good team. Freeman was chastised for the defense's shortcomings. Therefore there was no support of Freeman when there should have been.
"I'm just using elite defense as an example because that is what his peers have been given."Gives me a chuckle every time I see it.
"I'm just using elite defense as an example because that is what his peers have been given."Gives me a chuckle every time I see it.
What did #32 pass defense give you? Besides a reason to run a good QB out of town.
Poor Josh. Saddled with the worst defense in history, while every other QB in the NFL got an elite defense. No wonder he couldn't throw the ball anymore.True story.
I will give this guy [JC5100] credit. He can keep the argument civilized. That is rare on the Red.I totally disagree though. If Freeman was not given enough time here, or he went to Minny and balled at a high level, then those things would bolster his argument. But as we all saw, neither one of those things actually happened. Carry on.
Everyone else is to blame for Josh's failure in the NFL. Poor guy.
"I'm just using elite defense as an example because that is what his peers have been given."Gives me a chuckle every time I see it.
What did #32 pass defense give you? Besides a reason to run a good QB out of town.
McCown?