Despite some flashes from the "Force" William "War daddy" Gholston(if only), and the hope that AJ will be more productive when not forced to stunt, the consensus is that an edge rusher remains a great need for us. Crichton and Murphy have prototypical size but don't appear to be top ten picks. Ealy has size and athleticism, but has shot up boards lately an I wonder if he is worthy of the selection, or simply being mocked to us by default. The most prototypical 4-3 end, Clowney will likely be gone and has concerns of his own. Certainly alternatives exist (QB,Watkins,Robinson etc) but if we decide to go with a pass rusher, who's your guy? This question would be better answered if we knew what Lovie has in mind. Would he consider one of these two as a full time end? Perhaps a two down SAM and third down rusher? Has Lovie coached someone like this before? Mark Anderson?Regardless, knowing what we know, who do you like better for the BUCs?I've done some youtubing and seen both in parts of a couple games each, so take my opinion for what it is...Barrlike the athleticism(speed,burst etc) and potential since he's new to the position. I love his play against the run when in pursuit, and feel he's very effective at stunting (sorry sheriden) I do have concerns about his run play when directly taking on a lineman,he seemed unmotivated and struggled do disengage. I've also seen a lack of an inside move whether watching live or in highlight reels.MackI'm a fan. like his athleticism as well, seems to be a bit more squat than Barr and plays more physical. Most have seen the TD against ohio state, but watch him bullrush the RT with one arm on the way to the QB. I see a bit of James Harrison nastiness and strength to him. He also shows the ability to use counter moves and disengage in the run game. That said he could be closer to his ceiling than Barr.The above descriptions discuss the two players as pass rushers, of course we don't know if they would be DEs, OLBs or Hybrids so their abilities in coverage may very well come into play as well. That said I've been impressed by both when covering ground in space and in coverage. Though generally Barr goes higher at this time, I'm having a hard time putting him over Mack. While neither are prototype 4-3 defensive ends, I see more physicality and refinement from Mack who gets my vote.Again while I've watched both, my viewing has been limited, any insight is appreciated...What say you?
I completely agree with your analysis. Barr seems to mostly get pressure by scheme. When the coaches create a hole for him to run through, he runs through. Mack can create pressure by himself. He's very physical for his size.
My viewing of both is limited as well...but between the two I would rather have Mack for our D. Barr seems to be a better fit for a 3-4 and appears to use primarily his speed to get pressure. Mack played against less than stellar competition, but I was at the UGA game when he pitched a tent in their backfield.
Great post man. I think this is a very interesting debate and there are a lot of factors involved like you discussed.What I will say is that I've seen Mack play in person and have been part of a staff (not going to say who) trying to gameplan against him. He is an absolute terror. As you said, he can be very physical. The thing that impressed me the most is his awareness when he plays. His ability to force fumbles should not be overlooked because what it represents is a guy having that added football knowledge and not letting the game be too big.I'm excited to see this Barr vs Mack debate progress as we go along this draft process.
The Bucs need not spend a premium pick on a LB. Too many much more important holes to fill and too many talented players on the board at 7 that can fill them. I'd be pissed if they took either one. Take Max Bullough or DeDe Latimore in the 4th, and move Mase to the strong side. Problem solved without using a top 10 pick.
I posted a breakdown of Barr and Clowney earlier this year but i think its been deleted in it showed everything I liked about him, we need athleticism at our DE a quick twitch kinda guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wompkp8Ao5g Elite athleticism when you see dlineman dip his hips like that, the last speed rusher that comes to mind that had those kind of hips and balance coming out of a draft was Robert Quinn which was 3 years agoImo Barr is best pure and most polished pass rusher coming out of this draftWhen I broke down Mack he mainly lined up against the slower RT's and had a simple go to move which was where he jab stepped outside and exploded inside just like Clowney and his swim move which i mentioned in my breakdown when Olineman figured it out he was able to be stopped. Personally I dont think hes gonna be as successful as a full time rusher like Barr or Clowney he lacks the elite athleticism Barr or Clowney possess though he is a good football playerMack on film he lacks change of direction and is stiff for a smaller guy, something Clowney can get away with due to sheer size and power, Mack will have trouble with NFL LT's imo
Should be one of the more interesting debates we have up until draft day.
Should be one of the more interesting debates we have up until draft day.
Maybe for us but there's probably a 5% chance either one of them will get picked by the Bucs. The team will more than likely focus on a player with a well-defined position.
I don't always like hybrid players.But when I do, I prefer Mack.
Should be one of the more interesting debates we have up until draft day.
Maybe for us but there's probably a 5% chance either one of them will get picked by the Bucs. The team will more than likely focus on a player with a well-defined position.
I think there is next to zero chance that the Bucs take one of these guys with the idea that they will work out where he plays (or want to use him as a hybrid). I think that unless they are convinced that Mack or Barr can put their hand in the dirt consistently, they won't take them. They need to see Simeon Rice, Robert Mathis, in one of these guys, not Von Miller, I think. I've not been super high on Barr (need to do homework on both, really), but one thing that does interest me about him is that he's a guy who changed positions and has a lot of learning still to do.
Wonder why they didn't convert Barr to TE? THAT is a very intriguing thought. With his size and acceleration he would be completely unstoppable.
Im leaning towards Barr.
I posted a breakdown of Barr and Clowney earlier this year but i think its been deleted in it showed everything I liked about him, we need athleticism at our DE a quick twitch kinda guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wompkp8Ao5g Elite athleticism when you see dlineman dip his hips like that, the last speed rusher that comes to mind that had those kind of hips and balance coming out of a draft was Robert Quinn which was 3 years agoImo Barr is best pure and most polished pass rusher coming out of this draftWhen I broke down Mack he mainly lined up against the slower RT's and had a simple go to move which was where he jab stepped outside and exploded inside just like Clowney and his swim move which i mentioned in my breakdown when Olineman figured it out he was able to be stopped. Personally I dont think hes gonna be as successful as a full time rusher like Barr or Clowney he lacks the elite athleticism Barr or Clowney possess though he is a good football playerMack on film he lacks change of direction and is stiff for a smaller guy, something Clowney can get away with due to sheer size and power, Mack will have trouble with NFL LT's imo
Thanks for the input and video. When the tackle can barely get a hand on him, let alone block him , it's impressive. Not sure I would consider him the most polished pass rusher tho, and that the video shows him winning with just an outside speed rush, emphasizes my original post. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxPf3bj_VbE I love the play here at 1:32. The speed,burst and change of direction ability are on full display
I don't always like hybrid players.But when I do, I prefer Mack.
I see what you did there... And at first glance I agree.Going to do some studying.
I'd be ecstatic to have either one, a LB core of David, Foster, and Barr/Mack would be awesome.
