I mean start. Where would he start?OK but a first round pick has to play
And, Pearce would play.
We move on…
Why is starting so important? Laiatu Latu was the first defensive player drafted last year. He started one game out of seventeen.
They will play. They won't be Chris Braswell, who can barely get on the field.
I'm sure they'd get some snaps, but they wouldn't be taking too many away from Reddick and Diaby. We didn't sign Reddick for $14 mil to rotate him in. Of course the Bucs desperately need a long term solution at edge because Reddick is a rental. But that's a job for a 2nd round pick.I mean start. Where would he start?OK but a first round pick has to play
And, Pearce would play.
We move on…
I think the disconnect here is that edge rushers, while maybe dont start the game would see alot of snaps.
One of the reasons the Eagles were so successful was how deep they were at on defense.
They had some guys 3rd 4th on the depth chart better than some of our starters at points during the year - just look at their secondary depth versus ours.
Guys like Hall, JTR, and Britt would not have been starters on that Eagles team as an example. Hell, i'd argue they'd even be #2 on the depth chart.
Your scenario is more applicable to linebacker where if they drafted Jihaad Campbell he'd be getting a lot of playing time because Dennis and David are complementary. Campbell would probably be named the starter over Dennis. but all three would get plenty of snaps in any case.
I'm not moving the goalposts. Every Licht first round pick has started right away. That's my point and that's why I asked where Pearce would start.I mean start. Where would he start?OK but a first round pick has to play
And, Pearce would play.
We move on…
Look at you moving the goalposts…again.
Again, Pearce would play as a rook. Tons of potential as a high end pass rusher.
Of course the Bucs desperately need a long term solution at edge because Reddick is a rental. But that's a job for a 2nd round pick.
Cool.
So, you openly admit that the Bucs are “desperately” in need of a long term solution at EDGE, but are willing to pass on a potentially elite talent at said position because, “Meh. It can wait until the 2nd round”.
OUTSTANDING logic, bud!
Every Licht first round pick has started right away
JTS started right away?
According to Pro Football Reference he started weeks 1,3,4, 15,16 and 17 for a total of six games. But the fact that he started the first game indicates to me he was handed the job and couldn't keep it, rather than having to beat somebody out to earn the job. I could be wrong I'm just going by the fact that PFR says he started.Every Licht first round pick has started right away
JTS started right away?
I'm not telling you what I'd be willing to do. I'm just pointing out what Licht has historically done. Perhaps he'll do it this year for the first time. I'm not saying he won't. But if I'm a betting man I'm not betting on the Bucs drafting an edge rusher in the first round because 11 years is a pretty long track record of drafting someone to start (or trading out of the round).Of course the Bucs desperately need a long term solution at edge because Reddick is a rental. But that's a job for a 2nd round pick.
Cool.
So, you openly admit that the Bucs are “desperately” in need of a long term solution at EDGE, but are willing to pass on a potentially elite talent at said position because, “Meh. It can wait until the 2nd round”.
OUTSTANDING logic, bud!
Hard pass on Jeff Bassa out of Oregon. Dude almost single handedly made our defense atrocious down the stretch.
I know it's a late pick so maybe it's fine but he could not handle any pre snap movement while in zone.
He's a converted safety and undersized. He would be a special teams player at best imo.
Far better Ducks on defense. Derrick Harmon could be a star. Muhammad will be a good outside corner.
Bassa not so much
I'm not telling you what I'd be willing to do.
You literally just did. You said the long term solution can wait for the 2nd round
Are you now walking that back?
No. At no time did I ever say who the Bucs should pick. Just who the Bucs were likely to pick based on history(or not.) If I'm picking I'm seriously thinking about trading down a half dozen picks and getting an extra 3rd round pick. I'd think hard about taking Grey Zabel with pick 26 or so. Then go defense the rest of the way with maybe a WR mixed in somewhere. That's what I might do, but I suspect it isn't what Licht will do.I'm not telling you what I'd be willing to do.
You literally just did. You said the long term solution can wait for the 2nd round
Are you now walking that back?
As for JTS According to Pro Football Reference he started Week 1, but a news article says his first start was Week 3 to replace and injured JPP. His snap count for game one was 25% so maybe that was a token start or just a typo on PFR I don't know. Game 3 and 4 were legit starts at 79% and 85% snap counts. After that the snap count varied mostly in the 30s and 40s until the last three games he was listed as a starter and received starter snap counts of 74%, 89% and 90%.
According to Pro Football Reference he started weeks 1,3,4, 15,16 and 17 for a total of six games. But the fact that he started the first game indicates to me he was handed the job and couldn't keep it, rather than having to beat somebody out to earn the job. I could be wrong I'm just going by the fact that PFR says he started.Every Licht first round pick has started right away
JTS started right away?
didn't the Bucs have Shaq Barrett and Jason Pierre Paul when they drafted JTR?
grant it, 2021 we brought everyone back so it was a depth draft and also arguably Licht's worst draft (2016 was pretty brutal with Vernon Hargraeves, Noah Spence, Roberto Aguayo)
You are correct that Licht definitely focuses on need but i'd argue edge is a pretty big need. You need a rotation of guys and Reddick is a one year rental. Diaby has shown promise but needs to get home more often to maintain his starting job outside 2025 season. Braswell needs to improve to make roster outside 2025 season. Eagles have shown, you can never have too much depth on defense.
Our biggest needs, in my mind, are ILB, Edge, Cornerback, defensive line, offensive guard, and tight end. (Keep min mind our free agents next year - David, Evans, Goedeke, Otton, Hall, Reddick, and McCollum)
i'd be surprised if our first 2 picks were not defense. I could see them adding depth at guard/tight end in round 3 or 4...but yeah think 3 out of the top 4 go defense.
would you balk if the draft went like this; particularly from a position perspective.
1st - Edge James Pearce Jr, Tennessee
2nd - DL Darius Alexander, Toledo
3rd - TE Elijah Arroyo, Miami FL
4th - CB Denzel Burke, Ohio State
I'll cede the point that JTS was the one exception because yes JPP and Shaq were there, and that was at outside linebacker. So that's a point in the favor of my opposition. That's one time and that was pick 32, the end of the round, not pick 19. But I get it Ezieruaku for example is the golden child of PR and it seems like he's already been annointed to the Bucs. But I think if Bowles was to use that 1st pick on D-line he would want someone with some size because of the fact that Kancey is already undersized and Hall might be gone. Hall is 280 to 300 pounds! I think if Bowles is going to use that first pick on the line he's going to want a good run defender, a guy with some size like maybe Shemar Stewart. Where's the beef? How big is Pearce or Ezieruaku? Will they fill out into a stout run defender and be "setting the edge"?According to Pro Football Reference he started weeks 1,3,4, 15,16 and 17 for a total of six games. But the fact that he started the first game indicates to me he was handed the job and couldn't keep it, rather than having to beat somebody out to earn the job. I could be wrong I'm just going by the fact that PFR says he started.Every Licht first round pick has started right away
JTS started right away?
didn't the Bucs have Shaq Barrett and Jason Pierre Paul when they drafted JTR?
grant it, 2021 we brought everyone back so it was a depth draft and also arguably Licht's worst draft (2016 was pretty brutal with Vernon Hargraeves, Noah Spence, Roberto Aguayo)
You are correct that Licht definitely focuses on need but i'd argue edge is a pretty big need. You need a rotation of guys and Reddick is a one year rental. Diaby has shown promise but needs to get home more often to maintain his starting job outside 2025 season. Braswell needs to improve to make roster outside 2025 season. Eagles have shown, you can never have too much depth on defense.
Our biggest needs, in my mind, are ILB, Edge, Cornerback, defensive line, offensive guard, and tight end. (Keep min mind our free agents next year - David, Evans, Goedeke, Otton, Hall, Reddick, and McCollum)
i'd be surprised if our first 2 picks were not defense. I could see them adding depth at guard/tight end in round 3 or 4...but yeah think 3 out of the top 4 go defense.
would you balk if the draft went like this; particularly from a position perspective.
1st - Edge James Pearce Jr, Tennessee
2nd - DL Darius Alexander, Toledo
3rd - TE Elijah Arroyo, Miami FL
4th - CB Denzel Burke, Ohio State
We didn't sign Reddick for $14 mil to rotate him in
Reddick, like damn-near every Edge player in the NFL, will rotate snaps. In his All Pro year, Reddick played 74% of his teams snaps.
We continue to see issues with not understanding with how the league works.
And yet Licht has lasted this long doing that. Only Vea didn't start right away because he missed a good chunk of training camp and the start of the season due to injury. Licht finds BPA for an area of need in the first round and has started them every time. Perhaps this year will be different. Perhaps there aren't enough areas of need in the starting lineup this time, but the last time that happened he traded out of Round 1 and chose Logan Hall with the first pick of Round 2 who did not start right away.OK but a first round pick has to play. Every Licht first round pick has started every game. Only exceptions being Vea who was injured and JTS, pick 32, who despite his shortcomings started 3 of his first 4 games. He was gifted his starting job and he had to lose it, rather than having to earn it to begin with. Pick 19 will start every game barring injury. So where would Pearce or another 1st round edge pick be playing in 2025?
Any edge player taken in the first round will play. Edge guys shuffle in and out all game.
And my other question is next year we may lose both Reddick and Logan Hall. Which prospect would fit into a Logan Hall slot? Hall is 280 pounds. Doesn't Bowles want a big dude to hold down the fort for that early down defensive end position?
There are other ways to replace Logan Hall (if not re-signed) in 2026 other than the #19 pick. Hell, that could be Logan Hall.
Defensive line size is a priority for Bowles especially with Kancey being undersized. I think if he's going to draft in the first round it's going to be a guy with some meat on his bones. Maybe Mykel Williams if he falls to 19. Correct me if I'm wrong about the size thing, but I think Bowles will get nervous about drafting an undersized D-lineman in the first round.
The Edge players that are being discussed aren't Defensive Linemen, they are stand-up OLB's.
I think a cornerback/safety who can play nickel would get plenty of playing time right away. So perhaps Starks or Barron would be the first round pick IMO.
You are advocating for a Need-based draft philosophy, which paints yourself into a corner on draft day. GM's that do this consistently usually don't last very long.
You know what you might be right because the only reason to stay in round 1 is for the 5th year option. But then again if there is a pass rusher they like why trade down? If there is another run on offensive players in the top 15 you have your picks for the remaining defensive players on the board.
