And Eagles fairly recently won a Super Bowl without Hurts, Brown, Smith
I can't tell when you're serious.
They had prime Ertz, Jeffrey, Blount, and most importantly Big Dick Nick.
This is a completely different team.
It's like saying the Bucs won a super bowl without Brady. Yeah no shit
You just named a bunch of guys that come and go. The Eagles are driven by the offensive line and the one constant is the hall of fame offensive tackle. If the Bucs win the Super Bowl in the next 5-7 years it will be driven by the offensive line and the constant will be the hall of fame tackle.
I know you think you're being a big brain with the o-line talk... We all know you build the trenches to win... But you're dismissing skill positions players. You're forgetting that Wentz had an MVP season that year until he got hurt. Nick Foles played lights out. Ertz was a top 3 TE. Jeffrey had b2b outstanding seasons. Blount won b2b super bowls and played amazing in the playoffs. Their play calling was elite at the time. They had a good defense.
It's not just the offensive line...
And Eagles fairly recently won a Super Bowl without Hurts, Brown, Smith
I can't tell when you're serious.
They had prime Ertz, Jeffrey, Blount, and most importantly Big Dick Nick.
This is a completely different team.
It's like saying the Bucs won a super bowl without Brady. Yeah no shit
You just named a bunch of guys that come and go. The Eagles are driven by the offensive line and the one constant is the hall of fame offensive tackle. If the Bucs win the Super Bowl in the next 5-7 years it will be driven by the offensive line and the constant will be the hall of fame tackle.
I know you think you're being a big brain with the o-line talk... We all know you build the trenches to win... But you're dismissing skill positions players. You're forgetting that Wentz had an MVP season that year until he got hurt. Nick Foles played lights out. Ertz was a top 3 TE. Jeffrey had b2b outstanding seasons. Blount won b2b super bowls and played amazing in the playoffs. Their play calling was elite at the time. They had a good defense.
It's not just the offensive line...
Since you're talking about Wentz and Foles they must have been successful on the other teams they've played for....
right?
right?
The Chiefs are one game away from 3 peating AFTER trading away their hall of fame WR.
And you think this is because they run the ball so well with a great OL? Or because they have a top-5 scoring defense and transcendent QB?
I know it's not because of their WRs.
Sweet, so you just need a top-5 scoring defense and transcendent QB. Great points for your argument about a great OL, especially since KC is famously playing an OG at LT right now with both Tackle positions struggling.
You probably should have just stuck with the Eagles example. The same Eagles have two great WR's...
And Eagles fairly recently won a Super Bowl without Hurts, Brown, Smith
I can't tell when you're serious.
They had prime Ertz, Jeffrey, Blount, and most importantly Big Dick Nick.
This is a completely different team.
It's like saying the Bucs won a super bowl without Brady. Yeah no shit
You just named a bunch of guys that come and go. The Eagles are driven by the offensive line and the one constant is the hall of fame offensive tackle. If the Bucs win the Super Bowl in the next 5-7 years it will be driven by the offensive line and the constant will be the hall of fame tackle.
I know you think you're being a big brain with the o-line talk... We all know you build the trenches to win... But you're dismissing skill positions players. You're forgetting that Wentz had an MVP season that year until he got hurt. Nick Foles played lights out. Ertz was a top 3 TE. Jeffrey had b2b outstanding seasons. Blount won b2b super bowls and played amazing in the playoffs. Their play calling was elite at the time. They had a good defense.
It's not just the offensive line...
Perspective
The old Houston Oilers had 5 - #1 draft picks on their OL and Earl Campbell in the backfield and never won
The last time the Chiefs had this exact scenario heading into a Super Bowl, they had kind of a tough night of it…against a really tough scoring defense…The Chiefs are one game away from 3 peating AFTER trading away their hall of fame WR.
And you think this is because they run the ball so well with a great OL? Or because they have a top-5 scoring defense and transcendent QB?
I know it's not because of their WRs.
Sweet, so you just need a top-5 scoring defense and transcendent QB. Great points for your argument about a great OL, especially since KC is famously playing an OG at LT right now with both Tackle positions struggling.
You probably should have just stuck with the Eagles example. The same Eagles have two great WR's...
Folks have learned not to bet against the transcendent QB - but I’ll bet many gamblers are taking note of the similarities to that Tampa Super Bowl…
transcendent QB?
who was shut down on the biggest stage by Bowles' defense
The Red Board attributes that Bowles success to injured Chiefs' tackles . . but Bucs injuries on defense this year were irrelevant
In the real world . . .
"When asked what loss keeps him up at night, Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes said: “Super Bowl vs. Tampa. Pretty easy.” Scott Reynolds details how Mahomes’ Super Bowl LV loss to the Bucs put a dent into his legacy as he’s chasing Tom Brady’s greatness in a NEW Pewter Pulse video."
On the Red Board everyone knows that ^^ is just "player speak" and . . um . . "SR speak?"
This is crazy. The Bucs OL is definitely elite, it may not house multiple all pros or pro bowlers but as a unit they are damn good. Top 5 in rushing in the NFL speaks for itself. Mauch had a good season this year he was definitely better than a JAG. Goedeke also very good, while not the best at his position is easily top 10 RT right now. Bucs have two tackles that are top 10, 1 being top 1, and one of our guards has a case of being top 12 at his position. Barton showed flashes of dominance too but as a rookie struggled with consistency. Still was able to be ranked as fifth ranked best pass blocking rating as a unit. Top 4 rush attack blocking, top 5 pass blocking as a unit is considered "elite".
let's be real: if TB is going to seriously challenge for a SB berth, it has to be in the next 3 years. Before Evans/Godwin either retire or start to fall off a cliff. So we're talking latest until MG is 32.
This idea that the Bucs window is married to Evans and Godwin and not this offensive line is just wrong. The Eagles have been a really good team the last 7 years, and will be good going forward, because of their offensive line. WRs come and go. We've been lucky to have Evans and Godwin together but we went 5-11, 5-11, 7-9 with Evans and Godwin in their primes before we drafted Wirfs.
Obviously, any team has multiple needs if they are contending. having quality receivers is just another necessity. However, Hurts didn't become "elite" until AJ Brown showed up in PHI, that's just a fact. It took trading for AJ for PHI to get the the SB. And it wasn't a coincidence that Hurts didn't become a "great QB" until AJ showed up.
And when AJ was hurt, Hurts and the OL wasn't enough.
And, btw, TB's OL isn't elite. Wirfs is probably elite, but that's about it. Goedeke is good, not elite. Bredeson is probably a JAG. Barton might become elite, and I have high hopes for the kid, but he's a rook. Mausch (sp?) is a bit better than a JAG.
Besides, I have to take anything you post with a grain of salt, as aren't you the one that thinks the path to victory is running the ball 70 times in a row?
There a wide difference between "elite" and "damn good." And while I can agree that TB's OL played at a high level for much of the season, the tape says that they (in particular the IOL) got worked on multiple occasions. I mean, there's a reason that Coen shifted to a quick hitter 1-read passing offense that featured a heavy dose of WR screens. So many, in fact, that opposing defenses began to anticipate those screens/quick hitters and began sitting on them.
Bottom line, the stats are great, but once again they don't tell the whole story, in particular they don't show how Coen adapted his gameplans when it became clear that the OL couldn't consistently hold up more than a couple seconds against top pass-rushing units.
transcendent QB?
who was shut down on the biggest stage by Bowles' defense
The Red Board attributes that Bowles success to injured Chiefs' tackles . . but Bucs injuries on defense this year were irrelevant
In the real world . . .
"When asked what loss keeps him up at night, Chiefs QB Patrick Mahomes said: “Super Bowl vs. Tampa. Pretty easy.” Scott Reynolds details how Mahomes’ Super Bowl LV loss to the Bucs put a dent into his legacy as he’s chasing Tom Brady’s greatness in a NEW Pewter Pulse video."
On the Red Board everyone knows that ^^ is just "player speak" and . . um . . "SR speak?"
It wasn't just the Chiefs' OTs. The only starting OL the Chiefs could put on the field that day was the C. 4/5s of OL was a backup. Also, Watkins left the game early, as usual. Only played a handful of snaps and was only targeted once or twice, iirc.
There a wide difference between "elite" and "damn good." And while I can agree that TB's OL played at a high level for much of the season, the tape says that they (in particular the IOL) got worked on multiple occasions. I mean, there's a reason that Coen shifted to a quick hitter 1-read passing offense that featured a heavy dose of WR screens. So many, in fact, that opposing defenses began to anticipate those screens/quick hitters and began sitting on them.
Bottom line, the stats are great, but once again they don't tell the whole story, in particular they don't show how Coen adapted his gameplans when it became clear that the OL couldn't consistently hold up more than a couple seconds against top pass-rushing units.
If you want to split hairs over elite vs. damn good, give me your top-5 OL units across the NFL.
So you think every OL better than the Bucs (very few are) didn't have multiple "bad games" this year? Yeah there were games our unit struggled to block at times but out of 17 games, having 14 elite or damn good games is more of microcosm of who they are in general.This is crazy. The Bucs OL is definitely elite, it may not house multiple all pros or pro bowlers but as a unit they are damn good. Top 5 in rushing in the NFL speaks for itself. Mauch had a good season this year he was definitely better than a JAG. Goedeke also very good, while not the best at his position is easily top 10 RT right now. Bucs have two tackles that are top 10, 1 being top 1, and one of our guards has a case of being top 12 at his position. Barton showed flashes of dominance too but as a rookie struggled with consistency. Still was able to be ranked as fifth ranked best pass blocking rating as a unit. Top 4 rush attack blocking, top 5 pass blocking as a unit is considered "elite".
let's be real: if TB is going to seriously challenge for a SB berth, it has to be in the next 3 years. Before Evans/Godwin either retire or start to fall off a cliff. So we're talking latest until MG is 32.
This idea that the Bucs window is married to Evans and Godwin and not this offensive line is just wrong. The Eagles have been a really good team the last 7 years, and will be good going forward, because of their offensive line. WRs come and go. We've been lucky to have Evans and Godwin together but we went 5-11, 5-11, 7-9 with Evans and Godwin in their primes before we drafted Wirfs.
Obviously, any team has multiple needs if they are contending. having quality receivers is just another necessity. However, Hurts didn't become "elite" until AJ Brown showed up in PHI, that's just a fact. It took trading for AJ for PHI to get the the SB. And it wasn't a coincidence that Hurts didn't become a "great QB" until AJ showed up.
And when AJ was hurt, Hurts and the OL wasn't enough.
And, btw, TB's OL isn't elite. Wirfs is probably elite, but that's about it. Goedeke is good, not elite. Bredeson is probably a JAG. Barton might become elite, and I have high hopes for the kid, but he's a rook. Mausch (sp?) is a bit better than a JAG.
Besides, I have to take anything you post with a grain of salt, as aren't you the one that thinks the path to victory is running the ball 70 times in a row?
There a wide difference between "elite" and "damn good." And while I can agree that TB's OL played at a high level for much of the season, the tape says that they (in particular the IOL) got worked on multiple occasions. I mean, there's a reason that Coen shifted to a quick hitter 1-read passing offense that featured a heavy dose of WR screens. So many, in fact, that opposing defenses began to anticipate those screens/quick hitters and began sitting on them.
Bottom line, the stats are great, but once again they don't tell the whole story, in particular they don't show how Coen adapted his gameplans when it became clear that the OL couldn't consistently hold up more than a couple seconds against top pass-rushing units.
I'll agree that Coen did make it easier for the OL pass blocking wise with those quick reads but, the Bucs pressure rate was at 24.4 blitzed or not which is the lowest in the entire NFL.
Not sure where the Bucs O-line actually rates but it’s easy to imagine any longtime Buc fan over rating them because we have had a pathetic running game for a while.
Give players the credit or the coaches, it’s great to see
Not sure where the Bucs O-line actually rates but it’s easy to imagine any longtime Buc fan over rating them because we have had a pathetic running game for a while.
Give players the credit or the coaches, it’s great to see
or more succinctly …
the opposite of whatever JC says
There a wide difference between "elite" and "damn good." And while I can agree that TB's OL played at a high level for much of the season, the tape says that they (in particular the IOL) got worked on multiple occasions. I mean, there's a reason that Coen shifted to a quick hitter 1-read passing offense that featured a heavy dose of WR screens. So many, in fact, that opposing defenses began to anticipate those screens/quick hitters and began sitting on them.
Bottom line, the stats are great, but once again they don't tell the whole story, in particular they don't show how Coen adapted his gameplans when it became clear that the OL couldn't consistently hold up more than a couple seconds against top pass-rushing units.
If you want to split hairs over elite vs. damn good, give me your top-5 OL units across the NFL.
Okay. In no order:
PHI, DET, BUF, DEN, BAL.
Probably put MIN next, then KC.
So you think every OL better than the Bucs (very few are) didn't have multiple "bad games" this year? Yeah there were games our unit struggled to block at times but out of 17 games, having 14 elite or damn good games is more of microcosm of who they are in general.This is crazy. The Bucs OL is definitely elite, it may not house multiple all pros or pro bowlers but as a unit they are damn good. Top 5 in rushing in the NFL speaks for itself. Mauch had a good season this year he was definitely better than a JAG. Goedeke also very good, while not the best at his position is easily top 10 RT right now. Bucs have two tackles that are top 10, 1 being top 1, and one of our guards has a case of being top 12 at his position. Barton showed flashes of dominance too but as a rookie struggled with consistency. Still was able to be ranked as fifth ranked best pass blocking rating as a unit. Top 4 rush attack blocking, top 5 pass blocking as a unit is considered "elite".
let's be real: if TB is going to seriously challenge for a SB berth, it has to be in the next 3 years. Before Evans/Godwin either retire or start to fall off a cliff. So we're talking latest until MG is 32.
This idea that the Bucs window is married to Evans and Godwin and not this offensive line is just wrong. The Eagles have been a really good team the last 7 years, and will be good going forward, because of their offensive line. WRs come and go. We've been lucky to have Evans and Godwin together but we went 5-11, 5-11, 7-9 with Evans and Godwin in their primes before we drafted Wirfs.
Obviously, any team has multiple needs if they are contending. having quality receivers is just another necessity. However, Hurts didn't become "elite" until AJ Brown showed up in PHI, that's just a fact. It took trading for AJ for PHI to get the the SB. And it wasn't a coincidence that Hurts didn't become a "great QB" until AJ showed up.
And when AJ was hurt, Hurts and the OL wasn't enough.
And, btw, TB's OL isn't elite. Wirfs is probably elite, but that's about it. Goedeke is good, not elite. Bredeson is probably a JAG. Barton might become elite, and I have high hopes for the kid, but he's a rook. Mausch (sp?) is a bit better than a JAG.
Besides, I have to take anything you post with a grain of salt, as aren't you the one that thinks the path to victory is running the ball 70 times in a row?
There a wide difference between "elite" and "damn good." And while I can agree that TB's OL played at a high level for much of the season, the tape says that they (in particular the IOL) got worked on multiple occasions. I mean, there's a reason that Coen shifted to a quick hitter 1-read passing offense that featured a heavy dose of WR screens. So many, in fact, that opposing defenses began to anticipate those screens/quick hitters and began sitting on them.
Bottom line, the stats are great, but once again they don't tell the whole story, in particular they don't show how Coen adapted his gameplans when it became clear that the OL couldn't consistently hold up more than a couple seconds against top pass-rushing units.
I'll agree that Coen did make it easier for the OL pass blocking wise with those quick reads but, the Bucs pressure rate was at 24.4 blitzed or not which is the lowest in the entire NFL.
of course not. Let's try not to twist what I'm saying into something I'm not. I'm not, nor have I ever, been down on this OL. Let's remember that I was among those here that were very high on the potential of this OL before the season started and I was pretty consistently positive about their play overall for most of the season.
That said, I'm also realistic, as much as possible, anyway. And when reviewing many of the games where TB's offense didn't perform as well, the OL was often part of the problem. And in particular most of those issues could be directly traced to the IOL, with both Bredeson and Barton probably at the heart of the problem in most instances. Now, Barton's a rook, so I tend to give some benefit of the doubt/forgiveness to rooks, but in Bredeson's case, when Barton had to try and recover from a whiffed block or whatever by Bredeson, well, I just can't give a vet OG the same forgiveness. Mauch also had some troubles, but it didn't seem to be quite on the same scale.
Let's also put their season into context based on the pass-rush units they faced this season. Sure, they faced some very good ones in DET (hutch was still healthy), KC, DAL, DEN, SF, LAC. But they also faced plenty of low-caliber pass rushes like NYG, CAR, WAS, ATL, and so on.
Fwiw, I think Tb's OL overperformed, given the talent they had to work with along the IOL. but that doesn't mean they were elite.