I would not trade anything for him over third round. I think he is toe tipping the water to test the temperature and then returns back to his team. Let's continue building this team with young Edge Rusher and not forget most of our defense was hurt in various areas so at this time we don't need mortgage the farm. We are doing great and should be building for the long haul.
There a wide difference between "elite" and "damn good." And while I can agree that TB's OL played at a high level for much of the season, the tape says that they (in particular the IOL) got worked on multiple occasions. I mean, there's a reason that Coen shifted to a quick hitter 1-read passing offense that featured a heavy dose of WR screens. So many, in fact, that opposing defenses began to anticipate those screens/quick hitters and began sitting on them.
Bottom line, the stats are great, but once again they don't tell the whole story, in particular they don't show how Coen adapted his gameplans when it became clear that the OL couldn't consistently hold up more than a couple seconds against top pass-rushing units.
If you want to split hairs over elite vs. damn good, give me your top-5 OL units across the NFL.
Okay. In no order:
PHI, DET, BUF, DEN, BAL.
Probably put MIN next, then KC.
If you do any rudimentary internet search, you'll find Tampa's OL is top-5 on damn-near any grading service that monitors such things. For you not to have them listed among your top-7, which includes a team that has had to play a Guard at LT, tells me that this conversation isn't worth continuing.
I would not trade anything for him over third round. I think he is toe tipping the water to test the temperature and then returns back to his team. Let's continue building this team with young Edge Rusher and not forget most of our defense was hurt in various areas so at this time we don't need mortgage the farm. We are doing great and should be building for the long haul.
Longest Active playoff Streaks - KC (10), Buffalo (6), and then there is us at 5.
But 3 out of the last 5 of ours have been "barely" hanging on to get there.
We need to make a move to get us into Super Bowl territory and we haven't been close the last few years.
@LivingDangerous, you have had some good takes, but your take on the Bucs' OL is not one of them. It's like you've watched an entirely different game than I did, and most OL evaluators.
Bredeson was/is definitely the OL weakest link by far and that I won't argue that. But I'm not going sit here and ignore the offensive production led by a UNIT(not individual players) that was top 5 in both run/pass AND top 1 in pressure rates, which you seem to be doing because of a few bad games.of course not. Let's try not to twist what I'm saying into something I'm not. I'm not, nor have I ever, been down on this OL. Let's remember that I was among those here that were very high on the potential of this OL before the season started and I was pretty consistently positive about their play overall for most of the season.
That said, I'm also realistic, as much as possible, anyway. And when reviewing many of the games where TB's offense didn't perform as well, the OL was often part of the problem. And in particular most of those issues could be directly traced to the IOL, with both Bredeson and Barton probably at the heart of the problem in most instances. Now, Barton's a rook, so I tend to give some benefit of the doubt/forgiveness to rooks, but in Bredeson's case, when Barton had to try and recover from a whiffed block or whatever by Bredeson, well, I just can't give a vet OG the same forgiveness. Mauch also had some troubles, but it didn't seem to be quite on the same scale.
Let's also put their season into context based on the pass-rush units they faced this season. Sure, they faced some very good ones in DET (hutch was still healthy), KC, DAL, DEN, SF, LAC. But they also faced plenty of low-caliber pass rushes like NYG, CAR, WAS, ATL, and so on.
Fwiw, I think Tb's OL overperformed, given the talent they had to work with along the IOL. but that doesn't mean they were elite.
You can do the perspective performance for every team in the NFL. No NFL team is playing nothing but dominant juggernauts at the DL every week so its really a moot point.
Even with Garrett I'm not confident with Diaby the #2 edge rusher and Braswell the #3. From what I've been seeing the draft compensation will be 3 premium picks or 2 premium picks and a player PLUS $150M contract extension. Think there are better balances of quality and quantity (which you need for pass rushers, especially playing in Florida).
If Mike Green went to a bigger school he might be talked about the same as Abdul Carter (I think he's significantly better than Carter) and he's going to be available in the 8-13 range. Then you have Hendrickson available for a fraction of what Garrett will go for. Then there's some interesting free agents: Mack, Olujari, Browning,Chaisson, Reddick (I'd throw a high incentive contract at him, $1M-$2M per sack based on the base salary, no franchise tag in 2026).
I'd like to push Diaby to the 3rd or 4th pass rusher, Braswell to 4 or 5 and just have them coming in waves rather than put all the eggs in the Garrett basket.
Even with Garrett I'm not confident with Diaby the #2 edge rusher and Braswell the #3. From what I've been seeing the draft compensation will be 3 premium picks or 2 premium picks and a player PLUS $150M contract extension. Think there are better balances of quality and quantity (which you need for pass rushers, especially playing in Florida).
If Mike Green went to a bigger school he might be talked about the same as Abdul Carter (I think he's significantly better than Carter) and he's going to be available in the 8-13 range. Then you have Hendrickson available for a fraction of what Garrett will go for. Then there's some interesting free agents: Mack, Olujari, Browning,Chaisson, Reddick (I'd throw a high incentive contract at him, $1M-$2M per sack based on the base salary, no franchise tag in 2026).
I'd like to push Diaby to the 3rd or 4th pass rusher, Braswell to 4 or 5 and just have them coming in waves rather than put all the eggs in the Garrett basket.
I'm good with this but I don't think Hendrickson will come as cheap as you think and I don't think he can produce anywhere close to Garrett in terms of run, pressure etc... not just sacks
Even with Garrett I'm not confident with Diaby the #2 edge rusher and Braswell the #3. From what I've been seeing the draft compensation will be 3 premium picks or 2 premium picks and a player PLUS $150M contract extension. Think there are better balances of quality and quantity (which you need for pass rushers, especially playing in Florida).
If Mike Green went to a bigger school he might be talked about the same as Abdul Carter (I think he's significantly better than Carter) and he's going to be available in the 8-13 range. Then you have Hendrickson available for a fraction of what Garrett will go for. Then there's some interesting free agents: Mack, Olujari, Browning,Chaisson, Reddick (I'd throw a high incentive contract at him, $1M-$2M per sack based on the base salary, no franchise tag in 2026).
I'd like to push Diaby to the 3rd or 4th pass rusher, Braswell to 4 or 5 and just have them coming in waves rather than put all the eggs in the Garrett basket.
I'm good with this but I don't think Hendrickson will come as cheap as you think and I don't think he can produce anywhere close to Garrett in terms of run, pressure etc... not just sacks
Hendrickson had 36 QB hits last year which was second in the league.
I'm not even in love with the idea of trading for him. I'm in the camp of trading up for Mike Green and sign 2 other pass rushers.
I think our line only gets better in Grahams 2nd season. Bredeson is serviceable - OL’s can play around one or two guys - adding to Mauch’s continued development - I think Bredeson is fine. There were games where line play was, off - but still far superior than any Buc o-line in over a dozen years.There a wide difference between "elite" and "damn good." And while I can agree that TB's OL played at a high level for much of the season, the tape says that they (in particular the IOL) got worked on multiple occasions. I mean, there's a reason that Coen shifted to a quick hitter 1-read passing offense that featured a heavy dose of WR screens. So many, in fact, that opposing defenses began to anticipate those screens/quick hitters and began sitting on them.
Bottom line, the stats are great, but once again they don't tell the whole story, in particular they don't show how Coen adapted his gameplans when it became clear that the OL couldn't consistently hold up more than a couple seconds against top pass-rushing units.
If you want to split hairs over elite vs. damn good, give me your top-5 OL units across the NFL.
Okay. In no order:
PHI, DET, BUF, DEN, BAL.
Probably put MIN next, then KC.
If you do any rudimentary internet search, you'll find Tampa's OL is top-5 on damn-near any grading service that monitors such things. For you not to have them listed among your top-7, which includes a team that has had to play a Guard at LT, tells me that this conversation isn't worth continuing.
There were games where line play was, off - but still far superior than any Buc o-line in over a dozen years.
As a unit, this is the best OL I remember the franchise having. Just the Tackles themselves make the argument pretty well. Wirfs is a top-3 LT and Goedeke is top-10 at worst.
Which unit are you referring to a dozen years ago?
There were games where line play was, off - but still far superior than any Buc o-line in over a dozen years.
As a unit, this is the best OL I remember the franchise having. Just the Tackles themselves make the argument pretty well. Wirfs is a top-3 LT and Goedeke is top-10 at worst.
Which unit are you referring to a dozen years ago?
I think the super bowl unit was better especially with Brady pointing out protection
There were games where line play was, off - but still far superior than any Buc o-line in over a dozen years.
As a unit, this is the best OL I remember the franchise having. Just the Tackles themselves make the argument pretty well. Wirfs is a top-3 LT and Goedeke is top-10 at worst.
Which unit are you referring to a dozen years ago?
I think the super bowl unit was better especially with Brady pointing out protection
Wirfs was great as a rookie and Marpet was a plus-player. But that was Brady making the rest look better than they were, in pass pro anyway. They never really were all that great run-blocking unit, as the offense was 28th out of 32 teams.
Donovan Smith was out of the NFL at the age of 30.
There were games where line play was, off - but still far superior than any Buc o-line in over a dozen years.
As a unit, this is the best OL I remember the franchise having. Just the Tackles themselves make the argument pretty well. Wirfs is a top-3 LT and Goedeke is top-10 at worst.
Which unit are you referring to a dozen years ago?
I think the super bowl unit was better especially with Brady pointing out protection
Wirfs was great as a rookie and Marpet was a plus-player. But that was Brady making the rest look better than they were, in pass pro anyway. They never really were all that great run-blocking unit, as the offense was 28th out of 32 teams.
Donovan Smith was out of the NFL at the age of 30.
Smith played solid that year tho. Not his career but that year specifically.
Marpet was elite. Wirfs is the same dude.
Jensen was close to elite...
But good point about run blocking
Well, aside from Brady’s line during the Super Bowl run - I was actually trying not to be overly optimistic. It’s the best line I can remember. Brad ‘The Bull’ Johnson had some nice line play - but opposing defenses still hammered him relentlessly (ie “The Bull” nickname), so it wasn’t as consistently good as this line.There were games where line play was, off - but still far superior than any Buc o-line in over a dozen years.
As a unit, this is the best OL I remember the franchise having. Just the Tackles themselves make the argument pretty well. Wirfs is a top-3 LT and Goedeke is top-10 at worst.
Which unit are you referring to a dozen years ago?
Didn’t mean to send you on a wild goose chase.
Maybe Barton takes those duties back this season - I don’t think he did much of it in his rookie season - but we know that’s in his future.There were games where line play was, off - but still far superior than any Buc o-line in over a dozen years.
As a unit, this is the best OL I remember the franchise having. Just the Tackles themselves make the argument pretty well. Wirfs is a top-3 LT and Goedeke is top-10 at worst.
Which unit are you referring to a dozen years ago?
I think the super bowl unit was better especially with Brady pointing out protection
