They went for the win. Turned out they needed to, because the Raiders drove down the field for the winning field goa
That is EXACTLY backwards, right? The Chiefs with the lead, field position, and the clock and 3rd down conversion advantage NEEDED to throw a deep ball to Worthy because . . . of what happened AS A RESULT of that choice?
"The Chiefs' success rate when targeting Worthy is 41%, compared to 65% and 62% when targeting Hopkins and Travis Kelce, respectively. Worthy and Isiah Pacheco (who played 2 games) are the only players with a negative WPA (win probability added) when targeted. His EPA (expected points added) is -3.27, essentially taking a field goal off the board."
The Chiefs are the number 1 third down conversion team in the league, right?
Its 3rd and 2 with 2:09 left and, I think, the Raiders either have one TO left or no TOs left. The Chiefs just ran for 5 yards and then 3 yards. They are on the Raider 44. If they convert the 3rd down the game is over?
and . . of course .. . there's THIS
Reid was asked about it after the game, so theres probably a reason for that :-)
I think the simple solution is to run the ball but Reid always goes for the kill in those situations and it's part of his identity. So I have no problem losing aggressive vs losing safe.
Agreed. They went for the win.
I’d have to go back and look, but I thought I remembered LV stacking the line (both safeties in the box), giving 1:1 with Worthy and the DB.
Admittedly, I could be wrong.
But, again, if that’s the look, I don’t mind the call.
Especially when it seemed they were going for it on 4th…which I thought they were when they called the TO after that play.
Anyways, crazy ending.
They went for the win. Turned out they needed to, because the Raiders drove down the field for the winning field goa
That is EXACTLY backwards, right? The Chiefs with the lead, field position, and the clock and 3rd down conversion advantage NEEDED to throw a deep ball to Worthy because . . . of what happened AS A RESULT of that choice?
"The Chiefs' success rate when targeting Worthy is 41%, compared to 65% and 62% when targeting Hopkins and Travis Kelce, respectively. Worthy and Isiah Pacheco (who played 2 games) are the only players with a negative WPA (win probability added) when targeted. His EPA (expected points added) is -3.27, essentially taking a field goal off the board."
The Chiefs are the number 1 third down conversion team in the league, right?
Its 3rd and 2 with 2:09 left and, I think, the Raiders either have one TO left or no TOs left. The Chiefs just ran for 5 yards and then 3 yards. They are on the Raider 44. If they convert the 3rd down the game is over?
and . . of course .. . there's THIS
Reid was asked about it after the game, so theres probably a reason for that :-)
I think the simple solution is to run the ball but Reid always goes for the kill in those situations and it's part of his identity. So I have no problem losing aggressive vs losing safe.
Yes, I totally get the aggressive bias and AGREE with it myself, although it has its limits lol. Bowles supposedly lost it for the Bucs in 2021 by going FULL AGGRESSIVE blitz so not sure I was a fan of that play.
But, to be clear we are all discussing two different things.
You guys are discussing play-calling PHILOSOPHY. I was only discussing the MATH. It is statistically the WRONG call, both probability-wise and even RESULT-wise. The Chiefs lose that game against any mildly competent team and they lose it largely because of that choice.
As for the play call itself, I dont know that they have to run there BUT as people post here all the time a PA pass is probably an easy win. Throw in a Mahomes roll out and even easier. Instead they throw a 40ish air yard pass to the one receiver who has struggled to connect with Mahomes. And they dont need a TD, they just need a first down.
Bowles supposedly lost it for the Bucs in 2021 by going FULL AGGRESSIVE blitz so not sure I was a fan of that play.
Aggressive and stupid are two different things.
Stafford has historically shredded the zero blitz.
Bowles has historically resorted to it when things aren't working on critical plays. So it's obvious AND it's against Stafford strength.
That's not even aggressive imo because he does it all the time in those situations. It's predictable.
Aggressive and stupid are two different things.
If last nights Chiefs game is the SB and the Chief’s opponent goes down and wins on a FG there are plenty of fans saying that call was stupid under those circumstances
it’s the nature of sports and fans
Aggressive and stupid are two different things.
If last nights Chiefs game is the SB and the Chief’s opponent goes down and wins on a FG there are plenty of fans saying that call was stupid under those circumstances
it’s the nature of sports and fans
That's def true BUT Reid has afforded himself the benefit of the doubt as his strategy has worked more often than it hasn't.
And Mahomes missed an easy one there... In fact, Mahomes is playing pretty damn bad this year. Take out his fluffed up stats vs Carolina and Tampa... His stats aren't even good with those games... And the eye ball test also says he's playing well below what we expect of him.
But I would expect him to not overthrow the fastest player in football most times there.
The QB literally took full responsibility.
So did the Center. The QB is being a stand-up teammate too. The QB wasn’t the only player on offense that wasn’t ready for the snap.
QB clapped... That's the signal for the guard to tap the center to hike the ball. It's verified with multiple people on offense.
Why didn’t anybody else on the offense move when the ball was snapped? If the snap was good, you would have most of the offense ready to go. Nobody was ready for the snap.
It ignores the fact also that refs called a false start then switched it to illegal motion to seal the Chiefs win.
The fact is they got the call right. The offense wasn’t set. They were still getting set when the Center snapped the ball early.
This isn't debatable.
Turns out, it is.
If you have any answer as to why nobody on the offense was ready for the ball to be snapped, you would have a solid point. But there is really only one answer to that question.
The QB literally took full responsibility.
So did the Center. The QB is being a stand-up teammate too. The QB wasn’t the only player on offense that wasn’t ready for the snap.
QB clapped... That's the signal for the guard to tap the center to hike the ball. It's verified with multiple people on offense.
Why didn’t anybody else on the offense move when the ball was snapped? If the snap was good, you would have most of the offense ready to go. Nobody was ready for the snap.
It ignores the fact also that refs called a false start then switched it to illegal motion to seal the Chiefs win.
The fact is they got the call right. The offense wasn’t set. They were still getting set when the Center snapped the ball early.
This isn't debatable.
Turns out, it is.
If you have any answer as to why nobody on the offense was ready for the ball to be snapped, you would have a solid point. But there is really only one answer to that question.
Well first and foremost it's the raiders. So it's probably just poorly prepared team in general first and foremost.
The commentary agreed that the tap is the signal to hike. Aiden said he meant to clap to hurry everyone up but forgot that was the signal to the guard and owned it. I'm glad JPJ is trying to take credit but it was confirmed by coach and QB that clap is the signal and he clapped THEN looked to line up.
The false start call always trumps the illegal motion. The ref blew the whistle and ran on the field to stop the play. Whether it was the right call or not doesn't matter because he has immediately signaled the play dead. Which then you can EASILY make the argument that some players stopped playing because the whistle... Meaning who knows what happens if he doesn't signal the play dead.
But you are wanting to grab a "gotcha" moment here with JPJ "blowing the game" so have at it I guess...?
If you’re expecting a rookie C in that situation to IGNORE the tap by the G you’re probably asking too much lol
Nobody was ready for the snap.
that’s not true, obviously lol
If you’re expecting a rookie C in that situation to IGNORE the tap by the G you’re probably asking too much lol
Powers-Johnson attributed the botched snap to "miscommunication" between himself and O'Connell.
"I thought he was calling for the snap, I snapped the ball," Powers-Johnson said. "I've got to be better in that situation. We're about to beat a really great team, and those miscommunications can't happen. So I'm going to take full responsibility, and I'm going to put that loss on me.
"We didn't come up short. I came up short."
Asked if the noise from the home crowd was a factor on that last play, Powers-Johnson shook his head.
"It shouldn't be a factor, so s---'s on me," he said.
O'Connell, meanwhile, said it was "completely my fault" when describing the play.
"I was looking out to my right to make sure guys were set, and I starting clapping to ... get the ball," said O'Connell, who made his first appearance since Oct. 20 because of a broken thumb on his right hand. "When I start clapping, that tells Jackson, basically, 'Snap the ball.'"
Replays, though, showed O'Connell finished clapping two seconds before Powers-Johnson's snap. The snap came immediately after Powers-Johnson was tapped by Parham.
It was the first game O'Connell and Powers-Johnson, moved to center from left guard in Week 9, worked together. O'Connell passed for a career-high 340 yards, completing 23 of 35 attempts with two touchdown passes. He was sacked three times.
"I thought they blew the play dead, so the fumble wouldn't count," Powers-Johnson said. "But I guess that wasn't the case, and I kind of lost it and shouldn't have lost it. I've got to keep my composure."
Said Raiders defensive end Maxx Crosby, who had one sack to end his four-game streak without one: "He was [calling false start]. I'm just saying, he was. I don't know even what they called or whatever they said, but that's the first thing I saw."
Crosby said he couldn't explain why the game ended the way it did.
Nobody was ready for the snap.
that’s not true, obviously lol
The order is literally clap, tap, hike.
JPJ def snapped it a little too fast and with a little too much heat on it tho... But they've had him playing LG and rotating all season which is just bizarre. This isn't a playoff team and they've got their 2nd round pick in a carousel on the line... Rotating and switching positions.
It's what dumb organizations do. Put him at center and let him learn things the hard way like we are doing with Barton. You get the good with the bad with rookies.
Nobody was ready for the snap.
that’s not true, obviously lol
The order is literally clap, tap, hike.
JPJ def snapped it a little too fast and with a little too much heat on it tho... But they've had him playing LG and rotating all season which is just bizarre. This isn't a playoff team and they've got their 2nd round pick in a carousel on the line... Rotating and switching positions.
It's what dumb organizations do. Put him at center and let him learn things the hard way like we are doing with Barton. You get the good with the bad with rookies.
The last person responsible for that debacle is the C. He's doing what he should do. He gets the tap, sets and snaps. The point of the tap is LITERALLY to let a C know the QB is ready for the snap because the C has been too busy dealing with the protection
With the exception of the TE who is trying to get a WR back, everyone on the line drops into their sets. The QB is also looking that way at the snap.
The false start call always trumps the illegal motion.
There can’t be a false start if the offense isn’t set. The offense wasn’t set. The snap prior to the offense being set made it an illegal motion. That’s what the discussion was about by the officials, and they got the call right.
But you are wanting to grab a "gotcha" moment here with JPJ "blowing the game" so have at it I guess...?
This isn’t true at all. I like JPJ and would haven happy with him a Buccaneer uniform. That doesn’t mean he flawless.
This same situation happened with Buccaneers earlier in the year and you put the blame on Barton. The difference there was the QB was the only guy that was not ready for the snap. The entire offensive line fired off when the ball was snapped. That tells you it’s on the QB.
Yesterday, the only guy that fired off when the ball was snapped was the Center. Nobody else on offense was ready for the ball to be snapped there. That tells you it’s on the Center. I’m open to other possibilities - tapping, clapping, whatever - but nobody other than the Center was ready for the ball to be snapped. It’s hard to get around that.
