thanks for posting, this from the linked article was really the example I was raising yesterday Havok:Revis is set to make $16 million per year — $13 million in base salary, plus a $1.5 million roster bonus due each March and a $1.5 million workout bonus for showing up each offseason. At that structure, Revis’s $16 million salary cap number would be the largest on the Patriots – higher than Tom Brady’s $14.8 million. But that contract comes with a big asterisk, as discovered by the Tampa Tribune. Per the contract, the team can convert Revis’s $13 million salary into a guaranteed bonus at any time. Revis actually would prefer this to happen — instead of waiting for the fall to receive his salary in 17 installments, he’d receive most of it up front in a big, fat check. Converting salary money to bonus money allows a team to spread that cap money over the life of the contract, as the Cardinals did with Larry Fitzgerald last month. So, for example, in 2014 the Patriots could decide to turn $10 million of Revis’s $13 million into bonus money, which would be spread over the final five years of his deal at $2 million per season. That would put Revis’s 2014 salary cap number at $8 million — $3 million in base salary, $2 million bonus proration, $1.5 million roster bonus and $1.5 million workout bonus — which the Patriots easily could handle. The Patriots currently sit with $12.7 million in cap space for 2014, and can create an extra $9.2 million by cutting Dan Connolly, Isaac Sopoaga, Tommy Kelly, Adrian Wilson, and Jake Bequette. They can create even more space by giving contract extensions to Vince Wilfork, Devin McCourty, and Stephen Gostkowski.
The problem with that idea is it focuses on 2014, what about 2015 and beyond when his cap figure is now an even worse $18 million.Thinking short term will kill you long term.
With escalating cap levels?
It's not your money, it's not preventing us from signing anyone, he's a HoFer (arguably GOAT) in his prime. Why get rid of him at all? To draft unknowns? Great teams are great because they keep and develop talented players. **CENSORED** teams stay **CENSORED** because of constant turnover.Getting rid of Revis is moronic.
Yep, I remember a time when the Colts traded away a future HoF RB to the Rams for peanuts, the Colts were never the same again and had years of top 3 picks.
thanks for posting, this from the linked article was really the example I was raising yesterday Havok:Revis is set to make $16 million per year — $13 million in base salary, plus a $1.5 million roster bonus due each March and a $1.5 million workout bonus for showing up each offseason. At that structure, Revis’s $16 million salary cap number would be the largest on the Patriots – higher than Tom Brady’s $14.8 million. But that contract comes with a big asterisk, as discovered by the Tampa Tribune. Per the contract, the team can convert Revis’s $13 million salary into a guaranteed bonus at any time. Revis actually would prefer this to happen — instead of waiting for the fall to receive his salary in 17 installments, he’d receive most of it up front in a big, fat check. Converting salary money to bonus money allows a team to spread that cap money over the life of the contract, as the Cardinals did with Larry Fitzgerald last month. So, for example, in 2014 the Patriots could decide to turn $10 million of Revis’s $13 million into bonus money, which would be spread over the final five years of his deal at $2 million per season. That would put Revis’s 2014 salary cap number at $8 million — $3 million in base salary, $2 million bonus proration, $1.5 million roster bonus and $1.5 million workout bonus — which the Patriots easily could handle. The Patriots currently sit with $12.7 million in cap space for 2014, and can create an extra $9.2 million by cutting Dan Connolly, Isaac Sopoaga, Tommy Kelly, Adrian Wilson, and Jake Bequette. They can create even more space by giving contract extensions to Vince Wilfork, Devin McCourty, and Stephen Gostkowski.
The problem with that idea is it focuses on 2014, what about 2015 and beyond when his cap figure is now an even worse $18 million.Thinking short term will kill you long term.
as you can see from my question to Ryan, I am not sure I follow on the $18 million, $18 million over how long? And do you mean $18 million over a few years is worse than $16 million per year?anyway, don't teams do this exact move all the time -- take a big cap hit now and reduce it by spreading it over time?
That would put Revis’s 2014 salary cap number at $8 million — $3 million in base salary, $2 million bonus proration, $1.5 million roster bonus and $1.5 million workout bonus — which the Patriots easily could handle. The Patriots currently sit with $12.7 million in cap space for 2014, and can create an extra $9.2 million by cutting Dan Connolly, Isaac Sopoaga, Tommy Kelly, Adrian Wilson, and Jake Bequette. They can create even more space by giving contract extensions to Vince Wilfork, Devin McCourty, and Stephen Gostkowski.
.....and increases his cap hit over future years to $18mil. For a CB.
can you explain Ryan? Wouldn't they be taking, essentially, a series of one year, $16 million cap hits, and trading it for spreading the same hit out at lower amounts over a number of years? In other words, you say "cap hit over future years to $18mil" (plural on years), I presume that is because it would be $18mil divided by x number of years?
You take the prorated signing bonus and added to the yearly salary + the non gtd bonus he has. He has essentially a series of one year deals at $16mil per year. If they convert his salary this upcoming year ($13mil plus 1.5 roster and 1.5 workout bonuses) to a signing bonus his cap hit this season would be 5.6mil (1.5 + 1.5 + 2.6 prorated bonus). Future cap hits become salary and bonus of any year which would be $16mil plus the prorated bonus of 2.6. So it's actually 18.6mil cap hit in the future. That's every year of the contract in which he plays. If he's released, the remaining pro rated portion of the bonus would accelerate on to the cap during whatever season that was. To me, unless they are desperate for cap space which I wouldn't anticipate, converting the salary to a signing bonus would be pretty stupid. I think everyone is way too focused on the cap. The cap is going up but I'm not sure that is really the issue anyway assuming the team has an issue with it. From some reading between the lines, they do. It's the fact that he's making so much more than the next player at his position, the franchise # at his position, and in relation to guys on the team currently who will need to be extended in the very near to somewhat near future. I'm also not sure how the deal gets restructured to make it palatable for both sides although I would hope it gets done. I'm not confident it will at which point the Bucs would have a decision to make....one they will face every year of this contract.
As Ryan explained quite well restructuring a contract does not lower its total nor does it make money vanish. It moves the cap hit to other years.
That would put Revis’s 2014 salary cap number at $8 million — $3 million in base salary, $2 million bonus proration, $1.5 million roster bonus and $1.5 million workout bonus — which the Patriots easily could handle. The Patriots currently sit with $12.7 million in cap space for 2014, and can create an extra $9.2 million by cutting Dan Connolly, Isaac Sopoaga, Tommy Kelly, Adrian Wilson, and Jake Bequette. They can create even more space by giving contract extensions to Vince Wilfork, Devin McCourty, and Stephen Gostkowski.
.....and increases his cap hit over future years to $18mil. For a CB.
can you explain Ryan? Wouldn't they be taking, essentially, a series of one year, $16 million cap hits, and trading it for spreading the same hit out at lower amounts over a number of years? In other words, you say "cap hit over future years to $18mil" (plural on years), I presume that is because it would be $18mil divided by x number of years?
You take the prorated signing bonus and added to the yearly salary + the non gtd bonus he has. He has essentially a series of one year deals at $16mil per year. If they convert his salary this upcoming year ($13mil plus 1.5 roster and 1.5 workout bonuses) to a signing bonus his cap hit this season would be 5.6mil (1.5 + 1.5 + 2.6 prorated bonus). Future cap hits become salary and bonus of any year which would be $16mil plus the prorated bonus of 2.6. So it's actually 18.6mil cap hit in the future. That's every year of the contract in which he plays. If he's released, the remaining pro rated portion of the bonus would accelerate on to the cap during whatever season that was. To me, unless they are desperate for cap space which I wouldn't anticipate, converting the salary to a signing bonus would be pretty stupid. I think everyone is way too focused on the cap. The cap is going up but I'm not sure that is really the issue anyway assuming the team has an issue with it. From some reading between the lines, they do. It's the fact that he's making so much more than the next player at his position, the franchise # at his position, and in relation to guys on the team currently who will need to be extended in the very near to somewhat near future. I'm also not sure how the deal gets restructured to make it palatable for both sides although I would hope it gets done. I'm not confident it will at which point the Bucs would have a decision to make....one they will face every year of this contract.
Ryan, why would the Bucs or any team want to exchange Revis' one year deal for a long term deal that pays him up front while keeping his yearly salary at $16 million after ever year but the first? Every team would want a lower salary right, because Revis has a ONE year deal. If he did not take less going forward than the team gets nothing for giving him a LTD and money upfront, right? That's the trade right, certainty and security versus a one year deal?
As Ryan explained quite well restructuring a contract does not lower its total nor does it make money vanish. It moves the cap hit to other years.
there is no contract to restructure, he has one year deals. It exchanging one short contract for a long contract and no team would do that if his annual rate stayed the same, right? his annual rate is premised on the lack of security provided by a ONE YEAR deal, isn't it?
thanks for posting, this from the linked article was really the example I was raising yesterday Havok:Revis is set to make $16 million per year — $13 million in base salary, plus a $1.5 million roster bonus due each March and a $1.5 million workout bonus for showing up each offseason. At that structure, Revis’s $16 million salary cap number would be the largest on the Patriots – higher than Tom Brady’s $14.8 million. But that contract comes with a big asterisk, as discovered by the Tampa Tribune. Per the contract, the team can convert Revis’s $13 million salary into a guaranteed bonus at any time. Revis actually would prefer this to happen — instead of waiting for the fall to receive his salary in 17 installments, he’d receive most of it up front in a big, fat check. Converting salary money to bonus money allows a team to spread that cap money over the life of the contract, as the Cardinals did with Larry Fitzgerald last month. So, for example, in 2014 the Patriots could decide to turn $10 million of Revis’s $13 million into bonus money, which would be spread over the final five years of his deal at $2 million per season. That would put Revis’s 2014 salary cap number at $8 million — $3 million in base salary, $2 million bonus proration, $1.5 million roster bonus and $1.5 million workout bonus — which the Patriots easily could handle. The Patriots currently sit with $12.7 million in cap space for 2014, and can create an extra $9.2 million by cutting Dan Connolly, Isaac Sopoaga, Tommy Kelly, Adrian Wilson, and Jake Bequette. They can create even more space by giving contract extensions to Vince Wilfork, Devin McCourty, and Stephen Gostkowski.
The problem with that idea is it focuses on 2014, what about 2015 and beyond when his cap figure is now an even worse $18 million.Thinking short term will kill you long term.
With escalating cap levels?
Actually not really. You're looking at it in terms of just doing 1 restructure. His deal is set up to have 3 years of very affordable pricing with a not too terrible cap hit afterwards. Just doing some quick sketch math and assuming a team converted 10 mil of his base salary into a bonus for the next 3 years you're looking at the salary below (someone please correct me if I've made a math error).2014: $3 mil (base salary) $2 mil (restructured bonus) $3 mil (roster/workout bonuses) = $8 mil2015: $3 mil (base salary) $2 mil (2014 restructure bonus) $2.5 mil (2015 restructure bonus) $3 mil (roster/workout bonus) = $11.5 mil2016: $3 mil (base salary) $2 mil (2014 restructure bonus) $2.5 mil (2015 restructure bonus) $3.33 mil (2016 restructure bonus) $3 mil (roster/workout bonus) = $13.83 milThe next years without restructuring would be about $30 mil per year, which is obviously pretty crazy, but 16 of that per year is non-guaranteed. So if you cut him after the 2016 season, you would have a cap hit of all the restructures of $15.66 mil, which you could either take all in one lump sum, or designate it as a June 1 cut and take $7.83 mil for two years.Personally, 1 year of a 15.66 mil cap hit is worth 3 very reasonable years of a future HOF CB who is still, at worst, the #2 CB in the NFL.
I see I missed some messages while I was typing. Ryan, you're only looking at 1 restructure and anyone that would trade for him would do something like I just spelled out above.
IMHO Revis is not going anywhere Thanks
Dammit!! Ok, let's address the issue that Revis is making sooooooo much more than the next highest paid cornerback. I believe Brandon Carr and Cortland Finnegan were the next couple of guys in line(don't feel like looking it up) at around $10mil/yr. The problem with using this as a comparison is that Finnegan(who just got cut) and Carr are no where near the second or third best corner in the league. In whatever order you want, the upper echelon of corners, those who actually compare to Revis, are Peterson, Haden, and Sherman....WHO ARE ALL STILL ON ROOKIE CONTRACTS. Once they receive their second contracts, the market will balance out and the numbers on Revis' deal will make more sense...
After going out the last 2 years you still only have a cap hit of $18.83 mil in 2017 if you do the same restructure, then you have a $12.83 mil cap hit if you cut him before March 11, 2018. If Revis is still a top CB in 2017, then $18.83 mil really won't be a terrible price.So if you're cap hit structure looked like this, would you want Revis?2014: $8 mil2015: $11.5 mil2016: $13.83 mil2017: $18.83 mil2018: $12.83 mil cap hit
thanks for posting, this from the linked article was really the example I was raising yesterday Havok:Revis is set to make $16 million per year — $13 million in base salary, plus a $1.5 million roster bonus due each March and a $1.5 million workout bonus for showing up each offseason. At that structure, Revis’s $16 million salary cap number would be the largest on the Patriots – higher than Tom Brady’s $14.8 million. But that contract comes with a big asterisk, as discovered by the Tampa Tribune. Per the contract, the team can convert Revis’s $13 million salary into a guaranteed bonus at any time. Revis actually would prefer this to happen — instead of waiting for the fall to receive his salary in 17 installments, he’d receive most of it up front in a big, fat check. Converting salary money to bonus money allows a team to spread that cap money over the life of the contract, as the Cardinals did with Larry Fitzgerald last month. So, for example, in 2014 the Patriots could decide to turn $10 million of Revis’s $13 million into bonus money, which would be spread over the final five years of his deal at $2 million per season. That would put Revis’s 2014 salary cap number at $8 million — $3 million in base salary, $2 million bonus proration, $1.5 million roster bonus and $1.5 million workout bonus — which the Patriots easily could handle. The Patriots currently sit with $12.7 million in cap space for 2014, and can create an extra $9.2 million by cutting Dan Connolly, Isaac Sopoaga, Tommy Kelly, Adrian Wilson, and Jake Bequette. They can create even more space by giving contract extensions to Vince Wilfork, Devin McCourty, and Stephen Gostkowski.
The problem with that idea is it focuses on 2014, what about 2015 and beyond when his cap figure is now an even worse $18 million.Thinking short term will kill you long term.
With escalating cap levels?
Actually not really. You're looking at it in terms of just doing 1 restructure. His deal is set up to have 3 years of very affordable pricing with a not too terrible cap hit afterwards. Just doing some quick sketch math and assuming a team converted 10 mil of his base salary into a bonus for the next 3 years you're looking at the salary below (someone please correct me if I've made a math error).2014: $3 mil (base salary) $2 mil (restructured bonus) $3 mil (roster/workout bonuses) = $8 mil2015: $3 mil (base salary) $2 mil (2014 restructure bonus) $2.5 mil (2015 restructure bonus) $3 mil (roster/workout bonus) = $11.5 mil2016: $3 mil (base salary) $2 mil (2014 restructure bonus) $2.5 mil (2015 restructure bonus) $3.33 mil (2016 restructure bonus) $3 mil (roster/workout bonus) = $13.83 milThe next years without restructuring would be about $30 mil per year, which is obviously pretty crazy, but 16 of that per year is non-guaranteed. So if you cut him after the 2016 season, you would have a cap hit of all the restructures of $15.66 mil, which you could either take all in one lump sum, or designate it as a June 1 cut and take $7.83 mil for two years.Personally, 1 year of a 15.66 mil cap hit is worth 3 very reasonable years of a future HOF CB who is still, at worst, the #2 CB in the NFL.
this^^
After going out the last 2 years you still only have a cap hit of $18.83 mil in 2017 if you do the same restructure, then you have a $12.83 mil cap hit if you cut him before March 11, 2018. If Revis is still a top CB in 2017, then $18.83 mil really won't be a terrible price.So if you're cap hit structure looked like this, would you want Revis?2014: $8 mil2015: $11.5 mil2016: $13.83 mil2017: $18.83 mil2018: $12.83 mil cap hit
Nope...I like Revis...but this is insaneHe maybe a HOFer, but the HOF is full of guys who never won the big dance.....Being a future HOFer is not an excuse to over pay a player....using that analogy, Peyton Manning and Tom Brady would be worth $35-40 million a year...but you don't see any of their team acting a fool and over paying...$14 million for one year?....nobody in their right mind would touch it....take that back, two idiots did and they are out of work....The Glazers aren't fools....their football people are telling them the same thing....It's not necessary for Revis to be on this team, making that kind of jack to win a championship....if we were a year a away, hell yeah...but 3 to 4 years away?....Com'n Man!!!
The cap level I mentioned isn't cap hit. Teams have a salary cap. That cap level is projected to continue to rise, just as it did this year... enough to accomodate backloading Revis' cap hit. Especially true if he gets traded to a contender with an aging roster. I don't think it's a killer.
