Blayton Cigsby wrote "the real problem is the O-line" I remember reading post 4 weeks ago that the offensive line was going to be much improved. I understand that the starting RT missed the last game with injury, but even before he was injured the running game is substandard because the offensive line does not open holes for the RB. Adding only one offensive lineman in last years draft was a big mistake.
Adding only one offensive lineman in last years draft was a big mistake.
We added two of them.
And, as bad as Mauch is at this point, I'd ready to plug Klein in there (even if that means 2 rooks).
Blayton Cigsby wrote "the real problem is the O-line" I remember reading post 4 weeks ago that the offensive line was going to be much improved. I understand that the starting RT missed the last game with injury, but even before he was injured the running game is substandard because the offensive line does not open holes for the RB. Adding only one offensive lineman in last years draft was a big mistake.
I think it may be a little more nuanced than that.
the line has improved just by adding Barton but even Barton is learning.
the line may also be improved over the course of the season but not as much now with Goedke out and only a few games together as a unit
also, some of the talk was that the run game would be better under Coen than it was under Canales. I think that is still potentially true when you look at some of the runs. As discussed here we are not very good at the foundational zone runs but better at gap etc. at a minimum the run game is probably better based on its diversity.
lastly, I think the unexpected success last year leads people to forget that the team is still paying for the SB and that is one reason we couldn’t completely revamp either line.
there’s probably more to it than even that
I agree that Irving has quicker feet and therefore can operate in tighter quarters. He's a smaller, shiftier back but for his frame I doubt he can carry a load as RB1. That's another uphill battle he has to prove. As far as being a better runner, I'll hold out on judgement. I need to see moreIncorrect, because the personnel and scheme has changed. we have a whole new LG, C, and RT (backup)Thanks for the explanation for the 4 play sample size.
The relevant sample size is not 4.
The sample size is in excess of 400 runs, I think?
Irving should get more runs (something I suggested in the preseason might happen ) because White was something like a 3.6 ypc runner before this season and is currently 2.1. Thats over 400 runs . .. across multiple offenses and coaches. He's great in the passing game but his CAREER so far has him as one of the LEAST efficient runners in the NFL
It is WHITE's sample size that says they should give more to Irving . . a point made by Bowles and Coen. . . because its basic common sense, even if it was a pretty unpopular question (lol) in the preseason.
As far as I can see, no one is overhyping IRVING, some are over hyping WHITE. I want nothing more than for White to turn that around.
Maybe he will in attempts 450 to 500?
:-)
And everything your saying about White ties into the main problem is the OL just hasn't been very good since he got here. So what your trying to indicate isn't hitting home, and if that was the case Bucky would be the STARTER.
Well, to each their own but earlier you credit DH's post of JQ a context, right?
DH omitted the end where JQ actually AGREES with my positionS (plural) and JQ is one of the reasons I suggested White might slide. Its all here, but added by me. This was JQ's conclusion:
1. Irving is the better runner and BECAUSE quicker feet and better in tight spaces (my point twice in this thread)
2. the Bucs need both
Btw, Bucky is NOT the starter because White is better in the passing game and pass pro AND because everyone recognizes the point JQ was actually making in that thread: the real problem is the O-line
He's a smaller, shiftier back but for his frame I doubt he can carry a load as RB1.
yes, you may be right although I dont think its a question of him being RB1 (especially with pass protection and White's receiving abilities) as much as it it getting him more involved, especially as compared to the RB splits last year. There's no reason for White to be nearly the entire run game like last year now that we have Irving.
And, I think there is unanimous agreement that the Bucs need both players.
to that point, the best scenario FOR THE BUCS would not necessarily be for Irving to get more (because of White's performance). It would be for White to be a true RB1 himself and start producing more consistently in the run game. Some of his struggles definitely falls on the line play, but as I tried to point out yesterday White has played behind different lines and different schemes and with different coaches and his numbers are still modest across all of that.
I HOPE HE BREAKS THAT TREND STARTING AGAINST THE EAGLES! :-)
White and Irving are fine in a committee approach. Makes no sense to make one RB carry the load with a 17 game season now.
White and Irving are fine in a committee approach. Makes no sense to make one RB carry the load with a 17 game season now.
agreed.
The Bucs need both and together they are a handful, especially when we have the lead.
agree. They do compliment the offense. As Brady noted, if you can’t get a consistent run game - it’s smart to use short passing to the perimeter to simulate a running attack and keep the defense honest.White and Irving are fine in a committee approach. Makes no sense to make one RB carry the load with a 17 game season now.
agreed.
The Bucs need both and together they are a handful, especially when we have the lead.
Check in after Week 1: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Check in after Week 2: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Check in after Week 3: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Check in after Week 4: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Check in after Week 1: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Check in after Week 2: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Check in after Week 3: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Check in after Week 4: Rachaad White is the starting RB.
Biggs, you tried to troll the game day thread (as I have point out before) so why should this be any different that this is yiour first and maybe only post today? ROFLMAO
I am sure someone will be along shortly
“Tale of the 1st down for #Bucs
OFF.
1st half: 22 1st down play calls
16(!) passes - 73% - 8.0 yds/play
- 63% success rate - 38% 1st down rate!!!
6 runs - 27% - 6.8 yds/play - 33% success rate - 33% 1st down rate
2nd half:
6 passes - 46% - 9.5 yds/play - 67% success rate - 50% 1st down rate
7 runs - 54% - 1.9 yds/play - 29% success rate - 0% 1st down rate
THROW THE DAMN BALL”
Per Queipo via Twitter
Preach, Josh. Preach…
“Tale of the 1st down for #Bucs
OFF.
1st half: 22 1st down play calls
16(!) passes - 73% - 8.0 yds/play
- 63% success rate - 38% 1st down rate!!!
6 runs - 27% - 6.8 yds/play - 33% success rate - 33% 1st down rate
2nd half:
6 passes - 46% - 9.5 yds/play - 67% success rate - 50% 1st down rate
7 runs - 54% - 1.9 yds/play - 29% success rate - 0% 1st down rate
THROW THE DAMN BALL”
Per Queipo via Twitter
Preach, Josh. Preach…
With 47 pass attempts and 25 rushes, it was modern football. Throw the ball to get the lead, and then run the ball to finish out the game.
“Tale of the 1st down for #Bucs
OFF.
1st half: 22 1st down play calls
16(!) passes - 73% - 8.0 yds/play
- 63% success rate - 38% 1st down rate!!!
6 runs - 27% - 6.8 yds/play - 33% success rate - 33% 1st down rate
2nd half:
6 passes - 46% - 9.5 yds/play - 67% success rate - 50% 1st down rate
7 runs - 54% - 1.9 yds/play - 29% success rate - 0% 1st down rate
THROW THE DAMN BALL”
Per Queipo via Twitter
Preach, Josh. Preach…
With 47 pass attempts and 25 rushes, it was modern football. Throw the ball to get the lead, and then run the ball to finish out the game.
Exactly!
Love to see it!
White may be the starter but Bucky averaging 6 yards a carry and should be the starter; white good third down guy
White may be the starter but Bucky averaging 6 yards a carry and should be the starter; white good third down guy
I know white was suffering from food poisoning- but the load sharing was 50/50 between White & Bucky. That was a significant upgrade from previous weeks.
