When straight men have to live in fear of gay men ridiculing them, mocking them and bullying them then you'll have an argument. When straight men are kept from being married and living their lives and being happy by gay men, then you'll have an argument.I was a founding member of the LGBT group at my university, and my gf and I at the time were the only straight students with the guts to be members in a small, Southern, conservative town. A singles group, aimed at straight people, that was started two months earlier, got no flak from the Administration. Our group was constantly stonewalled and picked on by the University's leaders.Don't try and sell me some bull**CENSORED** that gay people are left alone and allowed to live their lives normally in America.
Many people get mocked and bullied, if you want to convince yourself that it's only gay people, have at it. You see what you want to see, this is because you're a gay man attempting to live a straight life.
Yeah, I'm back to thinking you're just a troll. Everytime I present an argument against things you say, you just pick out one small piece of it and give some comment about it instead of presenting any points or facts to back you up.Either that, or you simply lack conviction, experience AND reasoning. It'd be pretty rare to find someone without all three, but I suppose it's possible.
Every time you present an argument? I'm still waiting for you to present one. You're arguing for the rights of one group of people while ignoring the rights of another. This isn't surprising, most minority groups only see tolerance as a one way street. The liberal media wouldn't have it any other way. You parrot what you believe to be the most widely accepted PC nonsense, as if that makes you superior to those who don't agree with you. If that's "conviction, experience and reasoning", in your world, I'm THRILLED I'm not part of it.
"And youre unreasonable if you mind anyone hitting on you."All those women claiming sexual harassment are just being unreasonable, you say?
You're over-generalizing. There are plenty of baseless sexual harassment suits, and plenty of valid sexual harassment suits. Sometimes the offender is making an honest mistake, sometimes the offender is being malicious.If a gay guy tells you that he thinks you're attractive and asks if you're gay, you're going to slap him with a sexual harassment suit and claim he's violating your rights? Or you're going to say something like, "No, I'm not. Sorry."
When straight men have to live in fear of gay men ridiculing them, mocking them and bullying them then you'll have an argument. When straight men are kept from being married and living their lives and being happy by gay men, then you'll have an argument.I was a founding member of the LGBT group at my university, and my gf and I at the time were the only straight students with the guts to be members in a small, Southern, conservative town. A singles group, aimed at straight people, that was started two months earlier, got no flak from the Administration. Our group was constantly stonewalled and picked on by the University's leaders.Don't try and sell me some bull**CENSORED** that gay people are left alone and allowed to live their lives normally in America.
Many people get mocked and bullied, if you want to convince yourself that it's only gay people, have at it. You see what you want to see, this is because you're a gay man attempting to live a straight life.
Yeah, I'm back to thinking you're just a troll. Everytime I present an argument against things you say, you just pick out one small piece of it and give some comment about it instead of presenting any points or facts to back you up.Either that, or you simply lack conviction, experience AND reasoning. It'd be pretty rare to find someone without all three, but I suppose it's possible.
Every time you present an argument? I'm still waiting for you to present one. You're arguing for the rights of one group of people while ignoring the rights of another. This isn't surprising, most minority groups only see tolerance as a one way street. The liberal media wouldn't have it any other way. You parrot what you believe to be the most widely accepted PC nonsense, as if that makes you superior to those who don't agree with you. If that's "conviction, experience and reasoning", in your world, I'm THRILLED I'm not part of it.
I presented a situation I had personal experience with. Something I was intimately involved in. Your response was to say, "Many people get mocked and bullied," and then tried to claim I said that only gay people get mocked and bullied. Which isn't what I said. Somehow that equates to me parroting what I've heard somewhere else, yet it's a situation that I, personally, was in. So how can I parrot my own experience? That's doesn't really make any sense.I'm not superior to anyone for any reason. No one is. We're all living on a tiny dustball in one small corner of the universe. Yet, for some reason, you're obsessed with the fact that gay and straight guys showering together is important. I don't really get that because, to me, it's completely unimportant.I'm asking you, straight up, why is it important for straight guys and gay guys to shower separately? Also, if you showered with a gay guy, why would you feel uncomfortable? It wouldn't bother me in the least and honestly, it wouldn't even cross my mind at all. I'd be there to shower and leave. What I don't get is why it bothers you and people like Vilma so much. This isn't an attack or anything, I'm honestly curious what your reasoning behind it is.
"And youre unreasonable if you mind anyone hitting on you."All those women claiming sexual harassment are just being unreasonable, you say?
Cuz there isn't a difference between hitting on someone and sexually harassing them.Aren't you supposed to be pro-logic?
When straight men have to live in fear of gay men ridiculing them, mocking them and bullying them then you'll have an argument. When straight men are kept from being married and living their lives and being happy by gay men, then you'll have an argument.I was a founding member of the LGBT group at my university, and my gf and I at the time were the only straight students with the guts to be members in a small, Southern, conservative town. A singles group, aimed at straight people, that was started two months earlier, got no flak from the Administration. Our group was constantly stonewalled and picked on by the University's leaders.Don't try and sell me some bull**CENSORED** that gay people are left alone and allowed to live their lives normally in America.
Many people get mocked and bullied, if you want to convince yourself that it's only gay people, have at it. You see what you want to see, this is because you're a gay man attempting to live a straight life.
Yeah, I'm back to thinking you're just a troll. Everytime I present an argument against things you say, you just pick out one small piece of it and give some comment about it instead of presenting any points or facts to back you up.Either that, or you simply lack conviction, experience AND reasoning. It'd be pretty rare to find someone without all three, but I suppose it's possible.
Every time you present an argument? I'm still waiting for you to present one. You're arguing for the rights of one group of people while ignoring the rights of another. This isn't surprising, most minority groups only see tolerance as a one way street. The liberal media wouldn't have it any other way. You parrot what you believe to be the most widely accepted PC nonsense, as if that makes you superior to those who don't agree with you. If that's "conviction, experience and reasoning", in your world, I'm THRILLED I'm not part of it.
I presented a situation I had personal experience with. Something I was intimately involved in. Your response was to say, "Many people get mocked and bullied," and then tried to claim I said that only gay people get mocked and bullied. Which isn't what I said. Somehow that equates to me parroting what I've heard somewhere else, yet it's a situation that I, personally, was in. So how can I parrot my own experience? That's doesn't really make any sense.I'm not superior to anyone for any reason. No one is. We're all living on a tiny dustball in one small corner of the universe. Yet, for some reason, you're obsessed with the fact that gay and straight guys showering together is important. I don't really get that because, to me, it's completely unimportant.I'm asking you, straight up, why is it important for straight guys and gay guys to shower separately? Also, if you showered with a gay guy, why would you feel uncomfortable? It wouldn't bother me in the least and honestly, it wouldn't even cross my mind at all. I'd be there to shower and leave. What I don't get is why it bothers you and people like Vilma so much. This isn't an attack or anything, I'm honestly curious what your reasoning behind it is.
The reasoning has been provided multiple times by multiple posters in this thread. It's now what you want to see so you ignore it. A gay man is going to check out other men, just as a straight man is going to check out women. Attraction is attraction. It seems as though you believe straight men can't control their desire to check out a woman, but gay man can control their desire to check out other men. In other words, you seem to believe gay men are more respectful than straight men. This is just an example of how certain people go overboard with their opinions concerning minority groups in order to toe the PC line. You have such a fear of being known as a racist/sexist/homophobe etc, that you elevate these groups to a point where you can say "see, I accept everyone". It's irrational, and it's transparent.As I said, attraction is attraction. If you take issue with straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, then you also need to take issue with women not wanting to shower with men. It is literally the exact same thing.
Just because the dude is gay doesn't mean he'll be giving the straight guys googly eyes in the shower.
a concept many have difficulty grasping. And what are the closeted gay guys doing to conceal their boners??
Correct, it's very difficult to grasp a concept that is beyond ludicrous. Are you suggesting that when a gay man is attracted to another man, it's a different type of attraction than a straight man has for a woman?
Nope....i'm asking what are the gay guys that are in the lockerrooms now doing to keep from jumping every guy in the showers?
Just because the dude is gay doesn't mean he'll be giving the straight guys googly eyes in the shower.
a concept many have difficulty grasping. And what are the closeted gay guys doing to conceal their boners??
Correct, it's very difficult to grasp a concept that is beyond ludicrous. Are you suggesting that when a gay man is attracted to another man, it's a different type of attraction than a straight man has for a woman?
Nope....i'm asking what are the gay guys that are in the lockerrooms now doing to keep from jumping every guy in the showers?
1. How do you know there are gay men in the NFL?2. Who has said anything about actual physical contact?
The E.E.O.C. defines sexual harassment as unwelcome sexual advances.
"And youre unreasonable if you mind anyone hitting on you."All those women claiming sexual harassment are just being unreasonable, you say?
You're over-generalizing. There are plenty of baseless sexual harassment suits, and plenty of valid sexual harassment suits. Sometimes the offender is making an honest mistake, sometimes the offender is being malicious.If a gay guy tells you that he thinks you're attractive and asks if you're gay, you're going to slap him with a sexual harassment suit and claim he's violating your rights? Or you're going to say something like, "No, I'm not. Sorry."
Women slap men with harassment suits for the same thing all the time. Of course, it IS avoidable if you follow a few simple steps, shown here: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f76_1323277426
The E.E.O.C. defines sexual harassment as unwelcome sexual advances.
Aw you can google. Good Job. What you failed to add, from the same page: "Although the law doesn’t prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that are not very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted)."
"And youre unreasonable if you mind anyone hitting on you."All those women claiming sexual harassment are just being unreasonable, you say?
You're over-generalizing. There are plenty of baseless sexual harassment suits, and plenty of valid sexual harassment suits. Sometimes the offender is making an honest mistake, sometimes the offender is being malicious.If a gay guy tells you that he thinks you're attractive and asks if you're gay, you're going to slap him with a sexual harassment suit and claim he's violating your rights? Or you're going to say something like, "No, I'm not. Sorry."
Women slap men with harassment suits for the same thing all the time.
And they'll be quickly dismissed
I'm asking you, straight up, why is it important for straight guys and gay guys to shower separately? Also, if you showered with a gay guy, why would you feel uncomfortable? It wouldn't bother me in the least and honestly, it wouldn't even cross my mind at all. I'd be there to shower and leave. What I don't get is why it bothers you and people like Vilma so much. This isn't an attack or anything, I'm honestly curious what your reasoning behind it is.
The reasoning has been provided multiple times by multiple posters in this thread. It's now what you want to see so you ignore it. A gay man is going to check out other men, just as a straight man is going to check out women. Attraction is attraction. It seems as though you believe straight men can't control their desire to check out a woman, but gay man can control their desire to check out other men. In other words, you seem to believe gay men are more respectful than straight men. This is just an example of how certain people go overboard with their opinions concerning minority groups in order to toe the PC line. You have such a fear of being known as a racist/sexist/homophobe etc, that you elevate these groups to a point where you can say "see, I accept everyone". It's irrational, and it's transparent.As I said, attraction is attraction. If you take issue with straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, then you also need to take issue with women not wanting to shower with men. It is literally the exact same thing.
I have, personally, been intimate yet professional working environments with women and I was able to control myself and concentrate on the work. I already explained that earlier, so your point about me believing straight men can't control their desires doesn't apply to me. I've controlled myself under similar situations plenty of times and I believe that gay or straight, if someone is a professional, they can control their sexual desires in a work environment just fine. Not because they said it on some news channel I don't watch or some news blog that I don't read, but because of my personal experiences in similar situations.I really don't care about what labels you choose to pin on me and so I don't have any fear about those labels because they don't matter whatsoever. I live my life for me and I'm perfectly comfortable with who and where I am in life. I don't believe I'm racist/sexist/homophobic etc, but I'm open minded enough to consider the possibility if you present a convincing argument as to why I am. I don't actively attempt to accept other people. The people I meet in my life and the people they are, and their race, sexual preference, age, gender, height, etc just don't really matter to me.You know I think this is the source of our disconnect. I honestly don't care about those things. I mean I really, honestly don't care at all. For whatever reason, you do. Whether it's because of your religious background, upbringing, I don't know. To you, putting labels on me is a seriously important thing. It's how you define others. And that's totally fine that you do that, but to me labels don't always fit because people are all so different from one another. I think it's got a lot more to do with you and I having different cognitive processes for critical thinking and reasoning than anything else. I don't have any issues with straight men showering with gay men. I asked why it bothers you, which again you didn't answer. So I'll ask, again, why would you, personally, be bothered by showering in a professional NFL locker room with men present who you knew were gay? What about it makes you uncomfortable? The team at Mizzou seemed to handle it okay last season.
I'm asking you, straight up, why is it important for straight guys and gay guys to shower separately? Also, if you showered with a gay guy, why would you feel uncomfortable? It wouldn't bother me in the least and honestly, it wouldn't even cross my mind at all. I'd be there to shower and leave. What I don't get is why it bothers you and people like Vilma so much. This isn't an attack or anything, I'm honestly curious what your reasoning behind it is.
The reasoning has been provided multiple times by multiple posters in this thread. It's now what you want to see so you ignore it. A gay man is going to check out other men, just as a straight man is going to check out women. Attraction is attraction. It seems as though you believe straight men can't control their desire to check out a woman, but gay man can control their desire to check out other men. In other words, you seem to believe gay men are more respectful than straight men. This is just an example of how certain people go overboard with their opinions concerning minority groups in order to toe the PC line. You have such a fear of being known as a racist/sexist/homophobe etc, that you elevate these groups to a point where you can say "see, I accept everyone". It's irrational, and it's transparent.As I said, attraction is attraction. If you take issue with straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, then you also need to take issue with women not wanting to shower with men. It is literally the exact same thing.
I have, personally, been intimate yet professional working environments with women and I was able to control myself and concentrate on the work
How?!
The E.E.O.C. defines sexual harassment as unwelcome sexual advances.
Do they further define being gay in the presence of heterosexual males as unwelcome sexual advances?
1. How do you know there are gay men in the NFL?2. Who has said anything about actual physical contact?
Do you think that gay ex-players didn't become gay until their playing days were over?And is the name Ernest Givins familiar to you?
