I'm asking you, straight up, why is it important for straight guys and gay guys to shower separately? Also, if you showered with a gay guy, why would you feel uncomfortable? It wouldn't bother me in the least and honestly, it wouldn't even cross my mind at all. I'd be there to shower and leave. What I don't get is why it bothers you and people like Vilma so much. This isn't an attack or anything, I'm honestly curious what your reasoning behind it is.
The reasoning has been provided multiple times by multiple posters in this thread. It's now what you want to see so you ignore it. A gay man is going to check out other men, just as a straight man is going to check out women. Attraction is attraction. It seems as though you believe straight men can't control their desire to check out a woman, but gay man can control their desire to check out other men. In other words, you seem to believe gay men are more respectful than straight men. This is just an example of how certain people go overboard with their opinions concerning minority groups in order to toe the PC line. You have such a fear of being known as a racist/sexist/homophobe etc, that you elevate these groups to a point where you can say "see, I accept everyone". It's irrational, and it's transparent.As I said, attraction is attraction. If you take issue with straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, then you also need to take issue with women not wanting to shower with men. It is literally the exact same thing.
I have, personally, been intimate yet professional working environments with women and I was able to control myself and concentrate on the work. I already explained that earlier, so your point about me believing straight men can't control their desires doesn't apply to me. I've controlled myself under similar situations plenty of times and I believe that gay or straight, if someone is a professional, they can control their sexual desires in a work environment just fine. Not because they said it on some news channel I don't watch or some news blog that I don't read, but because of my personal experiences in similar situations.I really don't care about what labels you choose to pin on me and so I don't have any fear about those labels because they don't matter whatsoever. I live my life for me and I'm perfectly comfortable with who and where I am in life. I don't believe I'm racist/sexist/homophobic etc, but I'm open minded enough to consider the possibility if you present a convincing argument as to why I am. I don't actively attempt to accept other people. The people I meet in my life and the people they are, and their race, sexual preference, age, gender, height, etc just don't really matter to me.You know I think this is the source of our disconnect. I honestly don't care about those things. I mean I really, honestly don't care at all. For whatever reason, you do. Whether it's because of your religious background, upbringing, I don't know. To you, putting labels on me is a seriously important thing. It's how you define others. And that's totally fine that you do that, but to me labels don't always fit because people are all so different from one another. I think it's got a lot more to do with you and I having different cognitive processes for critical thinking and reasoning than anything else. I don't have any issues with straight men showering with gay men. I asked why it bothers you, which again you didn't answer. So I'll ask, again, why would you, personally, be bothered by showering in a professional NFL locker room with men present who you knew were gay? What about it makes you uncomfortable? The team at Mizzou seemed to handle it okay last season.
You have things backwards. I don't put labels on anyone, labels are for PC cowards. I'm talking about people ignoring logic to argue ideas that don't make sense, for no other reason than to appease the PC crowd. I answered your question, as have several others. You're going to continue ignoring the answer because it doesn't align with your illogical viewpoint. I get that. When you want to start arguing that straight men should be allowed to shower with women, whether women are comfortable with it or not, I'll take your interest in this subject as genuine. Until then, you're just exposing yourself as a phony.
Okay, so let me get this straight: if I have an opinion it's because I'm "parroting" other people's opinions and it's not truly how I feel therefore I'm doing it to appease a crowd.If you have an opinion you don't need to express it because other people have and it's my responsibility to go read other people's comments and not ask you for your own.I have asked you twice for an answer and you don't seem willing to give it or able to give it.I completely understand that you would feel uncomfortable. I get that. What you haven't answered, and what no one has answered, is why do you feel uncomfortable? What, specifically, about the situation makes you feel uncomfortable? Is it because you feel he might be checking you out and threatening your modesty? Is it a fear that he might lose control of himself and rape you? That's the part I don't understand. I don't have any viewpoint on it, logical or illogical, because I don't understand it. I'm just asking you to explain it to me, that's all. Not for any judgmental reasoning but simply to learn something new.
It's not about it being okay or not okay, it's about being uncomfortable or comfortable. If you don't know a man is gay, you have no reason to be uncomfortable. When a man openly admits he is gay, and hasn't even started his career yet, that changes everything. Judging by your comments in this thread, and the creation thread in the cove, you seem to be a very stupid person. I'm not surprised you're having so much trouble with this.
Aww little baby thinks I'm stupid because I don't take things as facts without proof? Aww how stupid of me. Aww you're so cute, sweetie.
And then this happened:
Vilma apologizes for recent comments about gay playersDuring Super Bowl week, Saints linebacker Jonathan Vilma made a controversial comment based on the hypothetical example of a gay player being on his team. Now that former Missouri defensive end Michael Sam has come out as gay, Vilma has expressed remorse for his prior remarks.“It was a poor illustration of the example I was trying to give on the context, so I do apologize for that,” Vilma said Monday night on CNN, via the New Orleans Times-Picayune. “I was trying to explain that whenever you have change into something that’s been set in stone for so long, something that’s been going for so long, that change always comes with a little resistance. . . .“You have people that can be more outgoing, more open-minded. You have people that are a little more close-minded. Some people grew up with or without the acceptance of gays within their families. You have a lot of different elements within the locker room that you just don’t see right now. Me being on the inside for 10 years, inside the locker room, I’ve been around that.”Asked about the the acceptance of a gay player during Super Bowl week, Vilma told NFL Network, “I think that he would not be accepted as much as we think he would be accepted. I don’t want people to just naturally assume, like, ‘Oh, we’re all homophobic.’ That’s really not the case. Imagine if he’s the guy next to me and, you know, I get dressed, naked, taking a shower, the whole nine, and it just so happens he looks at me. How am I supposed to respond?”On Monday, Vilma explained that he doesn’t know how things will unfold in the locker room because no openly gay player has played for an NFL team.“I don’t know and the players don’t know because it’s the first time that you have a Michael Sam, who will by all accounts be drafted, openly gay, come into a locker room,” Vilma said. “No one in the NFL in the past however many years has experienced this before so this is all new for everybody, this is new territory.”It’s definitely new territory, and in a way it’s a good thing that a player has come out before being drafted by any one team. For the next three months, every player currently in the league will have to realize that it ultimately could be his team that drafts Sam, which necessarily will compel every player to consider how he will handle the situation if Sam ends up on the player’s team, because as of right now there’s a one-in-32 chance Sam will.
"And youre unreasonable if you mind anyone hitting on you."All those women claiming sexual harassment are just being unreasonable, you say?
You're over-generalizing. There are plenty of baseless sexual harassment suits, and plenty of valid sexual harassment suits. Sometimes the offender is making an honest mistake, sometimes the offender is being malicious.If a gay guy tells you that he thinks you're attractive and asks if you're gay, you're going to slap him with a sexual harassment suit and claim he's violating your rights? Or you're going to say something like, "No, I'm not. Sorry."
Women slap men with harassment suits for the same thing all the time.
B.S.Harassment suits are mostly based on an over the top pattern of behavior by a superior to subordinate, not one comment between peers
A friend of mine works for a large defense contractor. He was walking through the building one day and said hello to a woman as he walked by her. A few days later he was having to defend himself to his boss over claims the woman made that he was "undressing her with his eyes". The only thing that saved him was the fact that this woman tried to pull something similar in the past with a different co-worker. I don't know if this situation is common, but it definitely happens. My friend says he absolutely believes he would have been fired if not her shady track record.
1. How do you know there are gay men in the NFL?2. Who has said anything about actual physical contact?
Do you think that gay ex-players didn't become gay until their playing days were over?And is the name Ernest Givins familiar to you?
The point is that you don't have a clue how many gay players there actually are. For all you know there are two, or three. You act as if every NFL locker room has gay players, that players already deal with this issue. As I said before, Sam putting this out there before he's even drafted changes everything. It's not the same situation as a closeted gay man coming out after his playing days are over.
So it's okay to shower with a closeted gay man, but not an openly gay man? You sound like a man in the closet yourself.
Thanks for clearing that up for all of us. I had no idea!!
After severing four years in the Marines I can tell you I had to take a lot of shower with other grown men (not for fun) but it would not have, and still would not bother me if a gay Marine were to check me out, as long as he don't touch. There Gay not rapist also you cant catch gay its not contagious.
Guys we better be careful, Escobar might put a sexual harassment suit against us because he thinks he's so good looking all gay guys will hit on him.
After severing four years in the Marines I can tell you I had to take a lot of shower with other grown men (not for fun) but it would not have, and still would not bother me if a gay Marine were to check me out, as long as he don't touch. There Gay not rapist also you cant catch gay its not contagious.
Awwww, bad news, dude. According to someone here, you're gay. The proper response was to stare at every other guy, and repeatedly check the status of their penises to make sure they didn't get hard.Apparently that's how straight guys do it.
I'm asking you, straight up, why is it important for straight guys and gay guys to shower separately? Also, if you showered with a gay guy, why would you feel uncomfortable? It wouldn't bother me in the least and honestly, it wouldn't even cross my mind at all. I'd be there to shower and leave. What I don't get is why it bothers you and people like Vilma so much. This isn't an attack or anything, I'm honestly curious what your reasoning behind it is.
The reasoning has been provided multiple times by multiple posters in this thread. It's now what you want to see so you ignore it. A gay man is going to check out other men, just as a straight man is going to check out women. Attraction is attraction. It seems as though you believe straight men can't control their desire to check out a woman, but gay man can control their desire to check out other men. In other words, you seem to believe gay men are more respectful than straight men. This is just an example of how certain people go overboard with their opinions concerning minority groups in order to toe the PC line. You have such a fear of being known as a racist/sexist/homophobe etc, that you elevate these groups to a point where you can say "see, I accept everyone". It's irrational, and it's transparent.As I said, attraction is attraction. If you take issue with straight men not wanting to shower with gay men, then you also need to take issue with women not wanting to shower with men. It is literally the exact same thing.
I have, personally, been intimate yet professional working environments with women and I was able to control myself and concentrate on the work. I already explained that earlier, so your point about me believing straight men can't control their desires doesn't apply to me. I've controlled myself under similar situations plenty of times and I believe that gay or straight, if someone is a professional, they can control their sexual desires in a work environment just fine. Not because they said it on some news channel I don't watch or some news blog that I don't read, but because of my personal experiences in similar situations.I really don't care about what labels you choose to pin on me and so I don't have any fear about those labels because they don't matter whatsoever. I live my life for me and I'm perfectly comfortable with who and where I am in life. I don't believe I'm racist/sexist/homophobic etc, but I'm open minded enough to consider the possibility if you present a convincing argument as to why I am. I don't actively attempt to accept other people. The people I meet in my life and the people they are, and their race, sexual preference, age, gender, height, etc just don't really matter to me.You know I think this is the source of our disconnect. I honestly don't care about those things. I mean I really, honestly don't care at all. For whatever reason, you do. Whether it's because of your religious background, upbringing, I don't know. To you, putting labels on me is a seriously important thing. It's how you define others. And that's totally fine that you do that, but to me labels don't always fit because people are all so different from one another. I think it's got a lot more to do with you and I having different cognitive processes for critical thinking and reasoning than anything else. I don't have any issues with straight men showering with gay men. I asked why it bothers you, which again you didn't answer. So I'll ask, again, why would you, personally, be bothered by showering in a professional NFL locker room with men present who you knew were gay? What about it makes you uncomfortable? The team at Mizzou seemed to handle it okay last season.
You have things backwards. I don't put labels on anyone, labels are for PC cowards. I'm talking about people ignoring logic to argue ideas that don't make sense, for no other reason than to appease the PC crowd. I answered your question, as have several others. You're going to continue ignoring the answer because it doesn't align with your illogical viewpoint. I get that. When you want to start arguing that straight men should be allowed to shower with women, whether women are comfortable with it or not, I'll take your interest in this subject as genuine. Until then, you're just exposing yourself as a phony.
Okay, so let me get this straight: if I have an opinion it's because I'm "parroting" other people's opinions and it's not truly how I feel therefore I'm doing it to appease a crowd.If you have an opinion you don't need to express it because other people have and it's my responsibility to go read other people's comments and not ask you for your own.I have asked you twice for an answer and you don't seem willing to give it or able to give it.I completely understand that you would feel uncomfortable. I get that. What you haven't answered, and what no one has answered, is why do you feel uncomfortable? What, specifically, about the situation makes you feel uncomfortable? Is it because you feel he might be checking you out and threatening your modesty? Is it a fear that he might lose control of himself and rape you? That's the part I don't understand. I don't have any viewpoint on it, logical or illogical, because I don't understand it. I'm just asking you to explain it to me, that's all. Not for any judgmental reasoning but simply to learn something new.
Every answer you want is in this thread. I'm not going to keep repeating everything. You're clearly ignoring the answers, maybe you think you're going to trick me into agreeing with you. Not sure. If you don't know why a straight man doesn't want to shower with a gay man, or why a woman wouldn't want to shower with a man, then you really need to stop questioning the experience others have in life. Because you sound incredibly naive.
Okay, I give up, Escobar. You win or whatever.
So now it's delusional and ludicrous for a straight man to want to avoid taking showers with gay men? As I already said, there's no need to debate this. You're gay, or you're wrong. Those are the only two options.
Or I am so confident I am not gay and I don't think every gay dude is a rapist that I just don't give an F?
Where in this thread has anyone expressed their concern over rape?
Okay, so if he isn't going to rape anyone what is the big deal then? Because he looked at you in the shower? Sounds like you're insecure. Oh and if you really don't like it how about you go home and shower? It's a lot cleaner there anyways.
So if a man promises not to rape a woman, she has no reason to deny his "right" to shower with her. You sure you want to stick with this argument?
There's already a men's and women's shower "room". If you want to finance a gay man and lesbian woman shower room, cough up the dough. While we're at it, why not a midget shower room. And a shower room for people with age divisible by 7. And one for vegetarians. And one for Eagles fans. Good luck enforcing it though.
I also believe everyone is entitled to there own opinion, I my self would not care but if I had a gay teammate (he better have thick skin) but I can see why It bother people also. It's something different and most.
It's not about it being okay or not okay, it's about being uncomfortable or comfortable. If you don't know a man is gay, you have no reason to be uncomfortable. When a man openly admits he is gay, and hasn't even started his career yet, that changes everything. Judging by your comments in this thread, and the creation thread in the cove, you seem to be a very stupid person. I'm not surprised you're having so much trouble with this.
Aww little baby thinks I'm stupid because I don't take things as facts without proof? Aww how stupid of me. Aww you're so cute, sweetie.
You have no clue how ironic this post is.
After severing four years in the Marines I can tell you I had to take a lot of shower with other grown men (not for fun) but it would not have, and still would not bother me if a gay Marine were to check me out, as long as he don't touch. There Gay not rapist also you cant catch gay its not contagious.
Awwww, bad news, dude. According to someone here, you're gay. The proper response was to stare at every other guy, and repeatedly check the status of their penises to make sure they didn't get hard.Apparently that's how straight guys do it.
My wife not going to like this news.
