Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
So homosexuality is equal to kidnapping and sex trading? Wow congrats you're even dumber than I gave you credit for.
Gee, I NEVER knew you would make that attempt. ::)You set the bar at "if it hasn't ruined your life, why do you have a problem with it". You're implying that nobody has a right to have an opinion over anything if it doesn't "ruin their life". It's a ridiculous claim, so in turn you get a ridiculous answer. Be smarter next time.
Fact: It's not discrimination for a straight man to want to avoid showering with a gay man.
Discrimination - treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit:Sounds like discrimination according to the dictionary, fact. Umad?
It's exactly the amount of discrimination a woman would be guilty of for not wanting a man to shower with her in a gym locker room.
Gay man = woman. Okay sure dude whatever helps you sleep at night.
You keep getting that wrong. You've been corrected before, by more than one person, but by all means keep running with this. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
So homosexuality is equal to kidnapping and sex trading? Wow congrats you're even dumber than I gave you credit for.
Gee, I NEVER knew you would make that attempt. ::)You set the bar at "if it hasn't ruined your life, why do you have a problem with it". You're implying that nobody has a right to have an opinion over anything if it doesn't "ruin their life". It's a ridiculous claim, so in turn you get a ridiculous answer. Be smarter next time.
I suggest this instead:Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4
I'm about as liberal as they come and fully support Sam and any other gay player that wants to stop living a lie everyday, but I completely understand the argument that some straight guys aren't comfortable showering with gay men. You can't put all discrimination into one category and call it the same. Discrimination against gays is very real and horrible...but it's not about skin color or religious beliefs. It is about sexual preference....and that is most definitely related to getting naked and showering together. To act like it isn't a valid concern and make those that are bothered by it seem like bad people....is reverse discrimination and every bit as wrong. The answer. Shower stalls. No reason for NFL locker rooms to be set up like a YMCA or a prison. Every NFL locker room should have separate shower stalls so the players can shower off with privacy after a game. Even if you take gay players out of the equation, with all the media and such in the locker room after a game, and the fact that many players go home sweaty because they aren't comfortable showering out in the open....it just makes sense. Should be common sense really. Other than showering together, there is absolutely no legitimate effect a players' sexuality should have in the locker room or on the field. Install the showers stalls. Move on. The end.
Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
So homosexuality is equal to kidnapping and sex trading? Wow congrats you're even dumber than I gave you credit for.
Gee, I NEVER knew you would make that attempt. ::)You set the bar at "if it hasn't ruined your life, why do you have a problem with it". You're implying that nobody has a right to have an opinion over anything if it doesn't "ruin their life". It's a ridiculous claim, so in turn you get a ridiculous answer. Be smarter next time.
I suggest this instead:Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. —Proverbs 26:4
He has asked the question a dozen times now, someone needed to tell him how stupid it was.
It's actually the opposite. People's views about African Americans largely changed because skin color is an immutable characteristic. In other words, a person is born black or white and they have no control over that so it makes no sense to discriminate on the basis of color. Not only do many believe homosexuality is a "choice" or a "lifestyle," there is an entire very large segment of society whose religious beliefs prevent them from ever accepting that homosexuality could be an immutable trait too. So even if one accepts that African Americans faced a worse journey to the "promised land," they got there, so to speak. Homosexuals will never get there for a large portion of the population because to them homosexuality is a choice, not an immutable trait. and some believe God says so.
I don't disagree with any of this. However, I'm betting black folks were much more concerned with getting white folks to stop killing them then whether or not they liked them. Similarly, my assumption is that homosexuals are significantly more concerned with receiving equal protection under our laws then universal acceptance.
sorry, I could've been clearer, I was not discounting the struggle of AAs, just pointing out a key difference. To the point you make in your second sentence, equal protection under the laws is based, at least in part, on the notion of a class of people treated unfairly on the basis of an "immutable trait". That is why homosexuals arguably face a tougher battle in front of the law. I already mentioned why they face a similalr tough battle in front of some people
Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
^^^^^no better weapon against "a gay" than a Bible. Escobar has a STRICT religious belief that tells him homosexuality is an "abomination" and so to him (even though he will run from his words) homosexuality equates to other abominations like kidnapping and sex trades.
The sad reality is you truly are gay. If you want to make jokes at my expense, feel free. But know that nobody is making a joke when they refer to you as gay. They mean it literally.
wow
What's funny is just how far this thread has progressed away from what Vilma actually said and meant. His question was how he would respond to an openly gay teammate who looked at him in the shower. It wasn't about actually being in the shower, just some intimate action between him and an openly gay man while in an intimate setting.I know, I'm guilty of pulling it in another direction than originally intended as much as anyone, but the answer to his question is obviously a complex, complicated and deeply emotional one that none of us seem to be in agreement on.I hope he and others like him find the right answer for them because as we have illustrated here, there is no answer that befits all viewpoints. As it is a professional environment, some answer is going to have to come forward.The one thing I believe we can all agree on is that no one wants to be demonized and vilified for their viewpoint. Just because someone wouldn't feel uncomfortable in that situation doesn't mean they are homosexual, and just because someone would feel uncomfortable in that situation doesn't mean they are a closeted homosexual. The world is a much bigger, grander and more beautiful place than can be described in such black and white terms.For me, this thread has run its course and I'm glad I got to interact with everyone and see all the different views on this topic. The truth is that, a year from now, at least one openly homosexual man will have played an entire season in the National Football League. Perhaps it will lead to other complicated situations that none of us can predict right now, and perhaps nothing of any significance will occur at all. Only time will tell.
Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
^^^^^no better weapon against "a gay" than a Bible. Escobar has a STRICT religious belief that tells him homosexuality is an "abomination" and so to him (even though he will run from his words) homosexuality equates to other abominations like kidnapping and sex trades.
The sad reality is you truly are gay. If you want to make jokes at my expense, feel free. But know that nobody is making a joke when they refer to you as gay. They mean it literally.
wow
Homosexuality is a sin, no doubt about that. Is it equal to kidnapping etc, nobody has made that claim. There are some who believe God looks at sexual sins as more severe than other sins. I don't know if I hold that belief, but it absolutely is a sin. I won't be running away from anything, and it's hilarious that you of all people, the guy who just ignored a very basic question about Christianity five times, is accusing someone of running away from something.
Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
^^^^^no better weapon against "a gay" than a Bible. Escobar has a STRICT religious belief that tells him homosexuality is an "abomination" and so to him (even though he will run from his words) homosexuality equates to other abominations like kidnapping and sex trades.
The sad reality is you truly are gay. If you want to make jokes at my expense, feel free. But know that nobody is making a joke when they refer to you as gay. They mean it literally.
wow
Homosexuality is a sin, no doubt about that. Is it equal to kidnapping etc, nobody has made that claim. There are some who believe God looks at sexual sins as more severe than other sins. I don't know if I hold that belief, but it absolutely is a sin. I won't be running away from anything, and it's hilarious that you of all people, the guy who just ignored a very basic question about Christianity five times, is accusing someone of running away from something.
Thank goodness calling people names isn't a sin.Okay, I'm really done now. Promise.
What's funny is just how far this thread has progressed away from what Vilma actually said and meant. His question was how he would respond to an openly gay teammate who looked at him in the shower. It wasn't about actually being in the shower, just some intimate action between him and an openly gay man while in an intimate setting.I know, I'm guilty of pulling it in another direction than originally intended as much as anyone, but the answer to his question is obviously a complex, complicated and deeply emotional one that none of us seem to be in agreement on.I hope he and others like him find the right answer for them because as we have illustrated here, there is no answer that befits all viewpoints. As it is a professional environment, some answer is going to have to come forward.The one thing I believe we can all agree on is that no one wants to be demonized and vilified for their viewpoint. Just because someone wouldn't feel uncomfortable in that situation doesn't mean they are homosexual, and just because someone would feel uncomfortable in that situation doesn't mean they are a closeted homosexual. The world is a much bigger, grander and more beautiful place than can be described in such black and white terms.For me, this thread has run its course and I'm glad I got to interact with everyone and see all the different views on this topic. The truth is that, a year from now, at least one openly homosexual man will have played an entire season in the National Football League. Perhaps it will lead to other complicated situations that none of us can predict right now, and perhaps nothing of any significance will occur at all. Only time will tell.
The thread has progressed the way it has because people are conditioned in this country to blindly accept everything. When someone doesn't, that stands out. This isn't even a complicated issue, it's very simple actually. A straight man doesn't want to walk around a locker room naked when other men, who are aroused by men, are nearby. People just don't want to accept that answer, so they start equating it to racism etc. If people relied on common sense, and not what this "progressive" society tells us, this type of thread would last a few pages at most. Fighting against common sense usually leads to a longer debate than usual.
SOOOO are gay guys banned from your local gym locker room?
Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
^^^^^no better weapon against "a gay" than a Bible. Escobar has a STRICT religious belief that tells him homosexuality is an "abomination" and so to him (even though he will run from his words) homosexuality equates to other abominations like kidnapping and sex trades.
The sad reality is you truly are gay. If you want to make jokes at my expense, feel free. But know that nobody is making a joke when they refer to you as gay. They mean it literally.
wow
Homosexuality is a sin, no doubt about that. Is it equal to kidnapping etc, nobody has made that claim. There are some who believe God looks at sexual sins as more severe than other sins. I don't know if I hold that belief, but it absolutely is a sin. I won't be running away from anything, and it's hilarious that you of all people, the guy who just ignored a very basic question about Christianity five times, is accusing someone of running away from something.
Thank goodness calling people names isn't a sin.Okay, I'm really done now. Promise.
Oh I sin all the time, everyone does. I'm not claiming I don't. If I didn't, the existence of Jesus wouldn't have been necessary. God gave us all a mind, he made us all different with different opinions. Unfortunately, in America, only certain opinions are acceptable these days. We're actually at the point where a straight man can't even speak out against showering with a gay man. This is actually a cause for concern for some people, that's how bad things have become.
Anybody else find it funny that people were completely unable to answer my question? I'll ask one last time. To the people that dislike homosexuality can you tell me in what way has it ruined your life personally? You being annoyed by it doesn't count.
Who has made the claim that homosexuality has ruined their life? The reason nobody is answering this question is because it's ridiculous. Nobody is making this claim.
If it hasn't ruined your life then what is the problem with it?
I've never had a child kidnapped and sold into the sex trade. Are you sure this is the route you wanna go?
^^^^^no better weapon against "a gay" than a Bible. Escobar has a STRICT religious belief that tells him homosexuality is an "abomination" and so to him (even though he will run from his words) homosexuality equates to other abominations like kidnapping and sex trades.
The sad reality is you truly are gay. If you want to make jokes at my expense, feel free. But know that nobody is making a joke when they refer to you as gay. They mean it literally.
wow
Homosexuality is a sin, no doubt about that. Is it equal to kidnapping etc, nobody has made that claim. There are some who believe God looks at sexual sins as more severe than other sins. I don't know if I hold that belief, but it absolutely is a sin. I won't be running away from anything, and it's hilarious that you of all people, the guy who just ignored a very basic question about Christianity five times, is accusing someone of running away from something.
Escobar, God hates a coward .... now look at your two comments in bold right above and then look back at your initial comment in red. Thanks for being the oh so predictable you
I love how "progressive" is a bad word to Escobar. I guess being regressive or stagnant is the better option....rather than...you know.....progress. I suppose if you progress, then you can't believe in a fairy tale about floods and apples and magical kingdoms in the clouds and live your life based on rules in some 2000 year old book that has been rewritten 400 times. Funny how being gay is a sin.....but there has been gay people around since before Christianity was ever invented.
