I think the problem with the thread is that it's got things backwards.The combine is a favor to the NFL, not to the players. It basically saves the NFL teams a huge amount of work. It's not designed for the players, so the idea that they "apply" is an odd one. They invite the guys the teams most want to see.
Really? Because it wouldn't help a d-line coach to know that the only thing you'll get to see a top prospect do is run a 40... which you can stay at home and find out all you need to know?
I get your perspective Vin. Just don't think the same way...Compare Tape (done prior)Compare Athleticism (during)Compare Intellect/ Football and Non-Football (during)Compare want to... (during)Verify Measurements (during)An entire industry has been set up for just preparing for the combine... Which is paid for by the agents. Why not make it much more worthwhile - make it 10 days long (ok that last bit was a stretch.) ?(Never been a fan of Tim Brown btw.)
You're also leaving out the interview process. It's convenient for NFL teams to get all of the guys together in one place that they want to talk to. Then they can do further interviews down the line.Like someone else said, the combine for the the teams, not the players.
I think the problem with the thread is that it's got things backwards.The combine is a favor to the NFL, not to the players. It basically saves the NFL teams a huge amount of work. It's not designed for the players, so the idea that they "apply" is an odd one. They invite the guys the teams most want to see.
Really? Because it wouldn't help a d-line coach to know that the only thing you'll get to see a top prospect do is run a 40... which you can stay at home and find out all you need to know?
They invited what - 350 players? The draft is 250 players long. The combine started so that they could get as many players in one spot for medicals, interviews, etc. It saves team lots of time. Whether someone like Clowney does 5 drills or 6 drills or no drills, they want him there for the medical and the interviews. Besides, the mere fact that he doesn't do certain drills is a form of information. Do you really think the teams would rather have not had Clowney there at all?
I think the problem with the thread is that it's got things backwards.The combine is a favor to the NFL, not to the players. It basically saves the NFL teams a huge amount of work. It's not designed for the players, so the idea that they "apply" is an odd one. They invite the guys the teams most want to see.
Really? Because it wouldn't help a d-line coach to know that the only thing you'll get to see a top prospect do is run a 40... which you can stay at home and find out all you need to know?
They invited what - 350 players? The draft is 250 players long. The combine started so that they could get as many players in one spot for medicals, interviews, etc. It saves team lots of time. Whether someone like Clowney does 5 drills or 6 drills or no drills, they want him there for the medical and the interviews. Besides, the mere fact that he doesn't do certain drills is a form of information. Do you really think the teams would rather have not had Clowney there at all?
I understand the interview and medical part of it... but the medical is distributed info. A position coach wouldn't need to be sent to Indy for that.
Plus all that would happen is that top prospects would suddenly get some sort of hamstring pull or other hard to prove injury. The problem is as long as the teams are willing to go to private workouts and pro days guys have the advantage of running on rubber tracks, downhill with a fan behind them they will.
I guess I'm not following why you are so concerned about this DL coach. There are plenty of players there to evaluate, and the reality is that if it's a top player he's going to watch him at the combine AND his pro day. Again - the NFL wants these guys there and doing as much as they can or will do - they aren't going to force a player to apply to be there.
I would add that over the last few days you can tell Mayock wants them to do everything as well... actually sounded a bit frustrated that guys were opting out of events.
I would add that over the last few days you can tell Mayock wants them to do everything as well... actually sounded a bit frustrated that guys were opting out of events.
...and this is why letting them know ahead of time keeps them from wasting their time...
I get your perspective Vin. Just don't think the same way...Compare Tape (done prior)Compare Athleticism (during)Compare Intellect/ Football and Non-Football (during)Compare want to... (during)Verify Measurements (during)An entire industry has been set up for just preparing for the combine... Which is paid for by the agents. Why not make it much more worthwhile - make it 10 days long (ok that last bit was a stretch.) ?(Never been a fan of Tim Brown btw.)
I see where you're coming from but I just cant see an agent for, as an example, Clowney, saying "yes, we want him to go out there so everyone can compare him to John Smith, from Wichita State." The only thing that could happen is for Clowney's stock to go down because he is already considered the best (right or wrong). Like I said, I get your point though.Edit: here's the point illustrated, from NFL.com:"The next-best 40 times among defensive linemen behind Clowney weren't exactly household names: Bloomsburg (Penn.) University's Larry Webster (4.58), followed by Shepherd (W.V.) University's Howard Jones (4.60). More recognizable prospects Jackson Jeffcoat of Texas (4.63), Pittsburgh's Aaron Donald (4.68) and Marcus Smith of Louisville (4.68) finished fourth, fifth and sixth in the position group, respectively."
The forty isn't a big deal to me... especially in the DL example presented...Their 10 yd split is important, how they move on the field is probably most important to me. Natural athleticism among these elite humans really does stick out and the only thing that would make a difference in their comparisons would be the training up to the combine./I think we've beat the horse enough... :)
I kind of feeling like the topic is drifting. In other words, teams are usually scouting players a good year or two prior to the combine. Most teams already know which players they are most interested in and alternatives if they are not available. I am certain (IMO) that teams know, have, or can obtain medical records from these players. Also, I am certain the teams have enough resources to get inside information on these players like work ethic and off-the-field issues. Guys rarely if ever go to the combine and instantly turn into a first round draft choice cause of a stud workout. My thing is, minus the interviewing and cheesy press confererences, why not let the lower level players try to make a name for themselves. The top players will have their pro days so what is the point of going there to do little to nothing.
The forty isn't a big deal to me... especially in the DL example presented...Their 10 yd split is important, how they move on the field is probably most important to me. Natural athleticism among these elite humans really does stick out and the only thing that would make a difference in their comparisons would be the training up to the combine./I think we've beat the horse enough... :)
agreed and besides it doesn't matter what we think anyway, the combine is here to stay because it sells . . . just look at this board . . people want year-round football and data . . and the combine fill both those needs and helps build ups the appetite for the draft. from the marketing perspective, its here to stay no matter who attends
I kind of feeling like the topic is drifting. In other words, teams are usually scouting players a good year or two prior to the combine. Most teams already know which players they are most interested in and alternatives if they are not available. I am certain (IMO) that teams know, have, or can obtain medical records from these players. Also, I am certain the teams have enough resources to get inside information on these players like work ethic and off-the-field issues. Guys rarely if ever go to the combine and instantly turn into a first round draft choice cause of a stud workout. My thing is, minus the interviewing and cheesy press confererences, why not let the lower level players try to make a name for themselves. The top players will have their pro days so what is the point of going there to do little to nothing.
do you think pro days might be televised some day? maybe even after the fact?
Maybe. Who would have thought the draft would have been the event it is now.
