Great point about the "relics"...even though it's an analogy, I'm a little uncomfortable with the comparison of our own Napoleon Dynamite in the same sentences as those QB's - the thing that sets the drop-back QB "relics"...and the "new wave" QB's...is their very quick release. As Parcels pointed out, you don't need to do more than move up, or around, in the pocket when you have a lightning-fast release.Thats why I compare Napoleon (favorably) to Brad Johnson. In college, Brad did not have a quick release, he had a longer wind-up and couldn't beat the rush (which is why Casey Weldon was actually the starter ahead of Brad Johnson at FSU). Brad went to NFL Europe - he developed a much faster release (which he actually worked to improve), due to the style of play. Gruden initially didn't think a stationary QB - like Johnson - could be effective in his offense. A combination of Brad's football intelligence, quik release and a man-bloking scheme up front - it helped earn a Super Bowl.Gues what I'm trying to say is - we don't need to draft a QB, and we don't need wholesale changes to the o-line. I believe Sparano does NOT like a zone blocking scheme. That might be a good thing - I think he prefers a MAN-blocking scheme - which kind of fits our personnel. The problem with the o-line under Schiano is that it was built to be mobile, and smeone attempted to make it protect a non-mobile QB, mid-season. Heck, if you don't have wheels in the NFL, you're going to get hit - but if you don't have wheels AND you don't have a quick-release - AND you your line was built for someone with more mobility/athletic ability - well, you're going to be HIT - A LOT.Napoleon has some work to do - but with Sparano's MAN-scheme - it should maximize existing offensive linemen. Our o-line will also be getting back to what Gruden built to protect Brad Johnson.Huh...wonder if the goal is to let Lovie recreate the Tampa-two on defense, and mix it with an offense similar to Gruden's?Hadn't thought about it that way before...
The OL effect is being seriously overrated. Glennon had the 6th longest average time in the pocket of any QB in the league at 3.00 seconds. Glennon's average sack happened at 4.22 seconds, which was the 10th most time in the league. Sure we saw some quick pressures (several due to poor protection schemes/assignments) but on average he is getting/taking more time than most other QBs to make a play.
SMH
Our line hurt us but not because of not enough time to throw the ball. It hurt because we couldn't run the ball which closed the lanes down for passing it.
Exactly why I want to see us use a short pass game to set up the run game. The old 49ers with Joe Montana did this extremely well. They really were more of a running team, and used the pass very effectivly to spread the defense and create running lanes. Sullivan talked about doing that, but rarely if ever seemed to do it!
Because that type of offense doesn't work anymore unless you have elite OL. Defenses have clamped down on those West Coast style offenses. Those offenses were a flash in the pan. Nowadays if you want to compete you need a QB who can make all the throws, and extend plays with his legs. Glennon made this OL look bad last year. Now some clueless fans are talking about replacing Penn and Zuttah and keeping Glennon on as the no.1 QB. :-
Pretty sure that Brady and Manning aren't extending plays with their legs. They have amazing pocket presence/awareness and can absolutely carve a defense to shreds with a short passing attack, should they desire to do so. I think the O-line isn't as bad as people are making it out to be, but that it's not all on Glennon as well. Things to consider: lack of playmakers at skill positions (outside of Jackson), no blocking TE to speak of, the fact that last half of our season was played against the best front sevens in the business (Carolina, San Fran, St. Louis, Detroit, Buffalo).
I totally agree with your statement on the competition level that we faced. Most fans don't pick up on that.Those two QBs you mentioned are relics.....great QBs from an era that is ending. What makes them successful is decisiveness and great release. The excuse that the receivers weren't getting open has been played out. The all-22 shows something different. Glennon staring down open receivers and not pulling the trigger is much more obvious (if you pause the all-22 and look)I have been wanting to post some of the images, but need to figure out how to do it. I think I need to use JavaScript?? Google Chrome? I don't know!!
Relics? They're the two best QBs in the league! The reason there aren't more like them is because more and more high school and colleges are running some type of zone read offense because it's easier to coach athletes than develop a heady pocket passer. It allows them to use the skills of their special athletes to make plays. The problem is, when they get to the NFL, all of the players are special athletes.
LOL .....Cody Grimm is so stupid.A great pocket passer will never be a relic in the NFL . There will always be a place for the pocket passer .....if anything it's the running QB's that are just a fad.
The OL effect is being seriously overrated. Glennon had the 6th longest average time in the pocket of any QB in the league at 3.00 seconds. Glennon's average sack happened at 4.22 seconds, which was the 10th most time in the league. Sure we saw some quick pressures (several due to poor protection schemes/assignments) but on average he is getting/taking more time than most other QBs to make a play.
SMH
Our line hurt us but not because of not enough time to throw the ball. It hurt because we couldn't run the ball which closed the lanes down for passing it.
Exactly why I want to see us use a short pass game to set up the run game. The old 49ers with Joe Montana did this extremely well. They really were more of a running team, and used the pass very effectivly to spread the defense and create running lanes. Sullivan talked about doing that, but rarely if ever seemed to do it!
Because that type of offense doesn't work anymore unless you have elite OL. Defenses have clamped down on those West Coast style offenses. Those offenses were a flash in the pan. Nowadays if you want to compete you need a QB who can make all the throws, and extend plays with his legs. Glennon made this OL look bad last year. Now some clueless fans are talking about replacing Penn and Zuttah and keeping Glennon on as the no.1 QB. :-
You call west coast offenses a flash in the pan then jump straight onto the next bandwagon, scrambling QBs? The kettle is on line 2 for you....
Glennon could be acceptable if we had an OL.............which we don't.
Who wants to settle for "could be acceptable" at the QB position? Not this guy.
I'm not endorsing him......I think he sucks......My wish is that we bring in an established veteran..........QBs drafted as so-called "Franchise" is like hiring Schianno as HC....yes that means "Head Case"........
Glennon could be acceptable if we had an OL.............which we don't.
Since Sparano is a MAN-blocking guy I believe the o-line will improve because it will be playing the concept for which it was originally built. The o-line will additionally have better coaching. Some may think we need to blow up the line and just get a new one - but that is ludicrous. Not only because of the COST of doing that (in time and money) - but It would set us back a couple of years...so that's not a smart move. Much better to take the talent you have, coach it up, and allow it to play a scheme that fits the talent - and one the talent knows and likes.That would be like deciding to run a 3-4 defensive line with the 4-3 talent already to assembled.
Joseph is a shell of his former self.Nicks future is up in the air.Zuttah had too many problems with snaps and blocking the man in front of him.Penn seems slow footed as he packs on the weightYeah there is a 99% chance the o-line needs to be re-tooled this off season. How much is to be determined.
The interior OL is trash.I'd put the % at 100, adw.
I think we should go after Evan Dietrich-Smith and Alex Mack in FA. Mack is hands down a top 5 center and Smith is the center for Greenbay. He is very good and plays guard too. I'd sign him to play gaurd because he is better than any of the guards available....although KC's Jon Asamoah is a pretty good young Guard too. If we can manage to sign Mack either Smith or Asdamoah, then get rid of Joseph, Nicks, and Zuttah. Joseph needs to go and take his bloated cap number with him. Nicks likely won't be back and if he is, he'll never be the same and won't be worth the money he is scheduled to make. Zuttah isn't horrible, but he shouldn't be starting imo. He makes nice depth because he can play C and G....but $4M/yr is just too much to be spending on a rotational depth guy. We get rid of those three guys and we gain about $16M in cap space....so we could seriously sign Alex Mack and either Evan Dietrich-Smith or Jon Asamoah...and have extra cap room left over. Then we role with Meredith and try to draft a stud O-lineman too. Worry about Penn next year. Our interior line would be 100x better and it wouldn't even make our current salary number go up. It's a legit plan IF we can sign those guys.
Yeah, that's why they hired Lovie - blow up the offensive line - start all over again.Think again. He's going to leverage what's in place - Nicks definitely isn't fooling anyone, he'll be replaed. Zuttah? Tell me what position you think he plays, and I'll tell you whether or not you're right (played a little center, little guard....).Penn? He showed some wear, but his tank isn't empty.Joseph? I've been hearing he's expendable for a while - yet he's still there - and he's still got enough.The problem has been that the moron head coach we just fired tried to adapt the line-play from Freeman to a less mobile Glennon. Additionally, injuries took their toll - those that weren't injured enough to sit, were forced to compensate for those who were playing out of position - wearing down them down.There going to replace tires, they aren't going to do any wholesale wheel replacements. They will probably draft someone day 2 or 3, bring in some undrafted FA's and perhaps a FA guard - I think whatever we do will be with the intent to improve the current talent with coahing, and develop their replacements.No way to know for sure, but too many resources would need to be dedicated to the offense - and despite what heard - the premium resources will be dedicated to defense. I could be wrong, and even though there are a lot of teams in need of QB from picks 1 thru 6...we may end up with one of them.I just don't think so.
The OL effect is being seriously overrated. Glennon had the 6th longest average time in the pocket of any QB in the league at 3.00 seconds. Glennon's average sack happened at 4.22 seconds, which was the 10th most time in the league. Sure we saw some quick pressures (several due to poor protection schemes/assignments) but on average he is getting/taking more time than most other QBs to make a play.
SMH
Our line hurt us but not because of not enough time to throw the ball. It hurt because we couldn't run the ball which closed the lanes down for passing it.
Exactly why I want to see us use a short pass game to set up the run game. The old 49ers with Joe Montana did this extremely well. They really were more of a running team, and used the pass very effectivly to spread the defense and create running lanes. Sullivan talked about doing that, but rarely if ever seemed to do it!
Because that type of offense doesn't work anymore unless you have elite OL. Defenses have clamped down on those West Coast style offenses. Those offenses were a flash in the pan. Nowadays if you want to compete you need a QB who can make all the throws, and extend plays with his legs. Glennon made this OL look bad last year. Now some clueless fans are talking about replacing Penn and Zuttah and keeping Glennon on as the no.1 QB. :-
You call west coast offenses a flash in the pan then jump straight onto the next bandwagon, scrambling QBs? The kettle is on line 2 for you....
Good point. But, I am not really advocating scrambling QB's. I like Bridgewater and Bortles, two guys who are calm, cool pocket passers but can scramble if required. That is the future. We are going to see more and more of these types of QB's because that is who the colleges are recruiting. I am not an advocate of Manziel. As much as I like him, if I keep going back and forth as to whether he will make it in the NFL, the only thing to do is pull him off the board.......at least at no.7. He could be a good risk/reward guy if he was available in the 2nd IMO. Obviously he won't be. Some GM will pick him even though he has reservations because of the 'what if' factor.
We have heard how the O-line is going to be our strength for about 5 off seasons in a row and then they always end up being a weakness. Time to blow it up and make some wholesale changes. Can't keep doing the same thing and expect different results. The thing that sucks is that without Nicks and Josephs bloated contracts, the league average for top 5 guards is $7.5M.....but because we gave Joseph and Nicks such bloated deals, the average for the top 5 guards is $8.3M. We screwed our self so now we'll have to pay more if we sign a top FA guard. Smh.
Why can't some of you realize the difference between a "scrambling" or "running" QB, and an actual QB with functional mobility like Luck, Rodgers, or Wilson? Nobody is saying we need a glorified WR playing QB. We just want a real QB that can move around and avoid pressure and extend plays when needed. Or heaven forbid take off and get a much needed 1st down conversion.
Since Sparano is a MAN-blocking guy I believe the o-line will improve because it will be playing the concept for which it was originally built. The o-line will additionally have better coaching. Some may think we need to blow up the line and just get a new one - but that is ludicrous. Not only because of the COST of doing that (in time and money) - but It would set us back a couple of years...so that's not a smart move. Much better to take the talent you have, coach it up, and allow it to play a scheme that fits the talent - and one the talent knows and likes.
Wait...what? Talent?I understand what you are saying. A good OL coach can make a mediocre group serviceable.However, IMO anyway, the guard situation is completely devoid of talent. I agree we can't blow it up all the way (the OL). I would go heavy after two new guards, preferably drafted. The problem is that of all these guys: Carimi, Larsen, Meredith....there is no talent. I am a major advocate of building the OL through the draft. The way Mark Dominik has approached building OL only solidifies my belief about building it through the draft. It sucks picking big fat guys, but it has to be done in order to ensure the long term success of the offense...especially considering that the substandard OL was likely Lovie Smith's biggest downfall in Chicago.
