9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5Jared Allen's sack totals from his first year to his most recent year. If that's overrated, then **CENSORED** man, I'll take overrated all day.
I agree I would take that all day. Just some consistency at the end position would make our defense that much better. Do you really think Allen is going to cost that much? Also, having a top 10 defense with just a solid offense (which should be with everybody healthy) would propell us in the playoff hunt at the least. Just look at the panthers.
Allen was the first name I thought of when I saw the thread title. He really lost a step last season and I think he'll be going downhill fast.
With 11.5 sacks, maybe we need more guys who have lost a step
Let me repost his year by year sack numbers for those who think he is overrated.9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5
He has by no means been overrated over his career. But his pass rushing and run defense were both significantly worse last year.
I would rather not throw big money at anyone this off season. Add some pieces the smart way, not the Dom way. Would take Allen, Tuck, Peppers on a reasonably priced 2 year deal if its possible. If not, get some reasonably priced OL and a slot WR.
The problem is we need help for the Dline and its probably not going to come from a rookie unless we got Clowney which isnt happening at 7. Im crossing my fingers that Bowers steps up his game, Gholston gets better, and Clayborn has his best season since hes been healthy for a while now. Those are all pretty realistic things which could help.
Agree 100% that the DE situation is a problem, just saying I dont want to get in a bidding war for one and end up with a bad contract we are all discussing 2 years down the road.
Allen was the first name I thought of when I saw the thread title. He really lost a step last season and I think he'll be going downhill fast.
With 11.5 sacks, maybe we need more guys who have lost a step
Let me repost his year by year sack numbers for those who think he is overrated.9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5
He has by no means been overrated over his career. But his pass rushing and run defense were both significantly worse last year.
0.5 sacks down is significantly worse? Need I remind you who lead our team in sacks from the DE position? Allen is definitely in the twilight of his career, but to think he wouldnt be an upgrade for us is just dumb.
I agree he took a step back which should mean he will be cheaper than the younger guys on the market. Put him with Clayborn, maybe a lesser tier FA or draft pick and Bowers and we should be atleast solid at the end position.
Allen was the first name I thought of when I saw the thread title. He really lost a step last season and I think he'll be going downhill fast.
With 11.5 sacks, maybe we need more guys who have lost a step
Let me repost his year by year sack numbers for those who think he is overrated.9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5
He has by no means been overrated over his career. But his pass rushing and run defense were both significantly worse last year.
0.5 sacks down is significantly worse? Need I remind you who lead our team in sacks from the DE position? Allen is definitely in the twilight of his career, but to think he wouldnt be an upgrade for us is just dumb.
Sacks alone are a poor way of measuring pass rush. Looking at guys on the Bucs like McCoy and Bennett that should be obvious. If you look at his total pressures (sack/hits/hurries) the decline is more obvious2013- 65 on 649 rushes (one per 10.0 rushes) #28 among 4-3 DEs2012- 75 on 638 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #16 among 4-3 DEs2011- 66 on 567 rushes (one per 8.6 rushes) #8 among 4-3 DEs2010- 64 on 524 rushes (one per 8.2 rushes) #13 among 4-3 DEs2009- 64 on 547 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #9 among 4-3 DEs2008- 73 on 547 rushes (one per 7.5 rushes) #2 among 4-3 DEs
Allen was the first name I thought of when I saw the thread title. He really lost a step last season and I think he'll be going downhill fast.
With 11.5 sacks, maybe we need more guys who have lost a step
Let me repost his year by year sack numbers for those who think he is overrated.9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5
He has by no means been overrated over his career. But his pass rushing and run defense were both significantly worse last year.
0.5 sacks down is significantly worse? Need I remind you who lead our team in sacks from the DE position? Allen is definitely in the twilight of his career, but to think he wouldnt be an upgrade for us is just dumb.
Sacks alone are a poor way of measuring pass rush. Looking at guys on the Bucs like McCoy and Bennett that should be obvious. If you look at his total pressures (sack/hits/hurries) the decline is more obvious2013- 65 on 649 rushes (one per 10.0 rushes) #28 among 4-3 DEs2012- 75 on 638 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #16 among 4-3 DEs2011- 66 on 567 rushes (one per 8.6 rushes) #8 among 4-3 DEs2010- 64 on 524 rushes (one per 8.2 rushes) #13 among 4-3 DEs2009- 64 on 547 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #9 among 4-3 DEs2008- 73 on 547 rushes (one per 7.5 rushes) #2 among 4-3 DEs
Now compare him to the Bucs best DE......nobody is saying he isnt on the decline. We are saying that he is still and upgrade to OUR team and makes US better. Please try and keep up.
Allen was the first name I thought of when I saw the thread title. He really lost a step last season and I think he'll be going downhill fast.
With 11.5 sacks, maybe we need more guys who have lost a step
Let me repost his year by year sack numbers for those who think he is overrated.9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5
He has by no means been overrated over his career. But his pass rushing and run defense were both significantly worse last year.
0.5 sacks down is significantly worse? Need I remind you who lead our team in sacks from the DE position? Allen is definitely in the twilight of his career, but to think he wouldnt be an upgrade for us is just dumb.
Sacks alone are a poor way of measuring pass rush. Looking at guys on the Bucs like McCoy and Bennett that should be obvious. If you look at his total pressures (sack/hits/hurries) the decline is more obvious2013- 65 on 649 rushes (one per 10.0 rushes) #28 among 4-3 DEs2012- 75 on 638 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #16 among 4-3 DEs2011- 66 on 567 rushes (one per 8.6 rushes) #8 among 4-3 DEs2010- 64 on 524 rushes (one per 8.2 rushes) #13 among 4-3 DEs2009- 64 on 547 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #9 among 4-3 DEs2008- 73 on 547 rushes (one per 7.5 rushes) #2 among 4-3 DEs
Now compare him to the Bucs best DE......nobody is saying he isnt on the decline. We are saying that he is still and upgrade to OUR team and makes US better. Please try and keep up.
Worse than Clayborn last year:2013- 48 on 498 rushes (one per 10.4 rushes)Also worse than George Selvie, Wallace Gilberry, and worse than the other 2 DEs on his own team. Why do you think they are letting him walk without a second thought?
Allen was the first name I thought of when I saw the thread title. He really lost a step last season and I think he'll be going downhill fast.
With 11.5 sacks, maybe we need more guys who have lost a step
Let me repost his year by year sack numbers for those who think he is overrated.9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5
He has by no means been overrated over his career. But his pass rushing and run defense were both significantly worse last year.
0.5 sacks down is significantly worse? Need I remind you who lead our team in sacks from the DE position? Allen is definitely in the twilight of his career, but to think he wouldnt be an upgrade for us is just dumb.
Sacks alone are a poor way of measuring pass rush. Looking at guys on the Bucs like McCoy and Bennett that should be obvious. If you look at his total pressures (sack/hits/hurries) the decline is more obvious2013- 65 on 649 rushes (one per 10.0 rushes) #28 among 4-3 DEs2012- 75 on 638 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #16 among 4-3 DEs2011- 66 on 567 rushes (one per 8.6 rushes) #8 among 4-3 DEs2010- 64 on 524 rushes (one per 8.2 rushes) #13 among 4-3 DEs2009- 64 on 547 rushes (one per 8.5 rushes) #9 among 4-3 DEs2008- 73 on 547 rushes (one per 7.5 rushes) #2 among 4-3 DEs
Now compare him to the Bucs best DE......nobody is saying he isnt on the decline. We are saying that he is still and upgrade to OUR team and makes US better. Please try and keep up.
Worse than Clayborn last year:2013- 48 on 498 rushes (one per 10.4 rushes)Also worse than George Selvie, Wallace Gilberry, and worse than the other 2 DEs on his own team. Why do you think they are letting him walk without a second thought?
If you watch Allen and Clayborn play and honestly think AC is a better pass rusher, please hook me up with your pot dealer because your stuff is obviously better than mine. Who says they are letting him walk without a second thought? But then again, you are asking me to explain the actions of a front office who is going to resign Josh Freeman instead of Jared Allen....Im not equipped to explain that one.
If you watch Allen and Clayborn play and honestly think AC is a better pass rusher, please hook me up with your pot dealer because your stuff is obviously better than mine. Who says they are letting him walk without a second thought? But then again, you are asking me to explain the actions of a front office who is going to resign Josh Freeman instead of Jared Allen....Im not equipped to explain that one.
At this point in their respective careers I think Clayborn and Allen are very similar players and expect very similar performance. However Allen's arrow is pointing down. As for the Viking's plans, based on all I've read they are not giving any consideration to re-signing Allen nor Freeman.
If you watch Allen and Clayborn play and honestly think AC is a better pass rusher, please hook me up with your pot dealer because your stuff is obviously better than mine. Who says they are letting him walk without a second thought? But then again, you are asking me to explain the actions of a front office who is going to resign Josh Freeman instead of Jared Allen....Im not equipped to explain that one.
At this point in their respective careers I think Clayborn and Allen are very similar players and expect very similar performance. However Allen's arrow is pointing down. As for the Viking's plans, based on all I've read they are not giving any consideration to re-signing Allen nor Freeman.
How are they similar? Allen has only failed once to not hit double digit sacks. When was the last time AC did that? Allen is most certainly at the end of his career. If we can get him on a 2 year deal...we need to jump all over it. If someone wants to give him 3, let him go there. AC is a different type of DE, he is better against the run but worse as a pass rusher. We need his type of play, but we need to add in someone who can rush the passer.
If you watch Allen and Clayborn play and honestly think AC is a better pass rusher, please hook me up with your pot dealer because your stuff is obviously better than mine. Who says they are letting him walk without a second thought? But then again, you are asking me to explain the actions of a front office who is going to resign Josh Freeman instead of Jared Allen....Im not equipped to explain that one.
At this point in their respective careers I think Clayborn and Allen are very similar players and expect very similar performance. However Allen's arrow is pointing down. As for the Viking's plans, based on all I've read they are not giving any consideration to re-signing Allen nor Freeman.
How are they similar? Allen has only failed once to not hit double digit sacks. When was the last time AC did that? Allen is most certainly at the end of his career. If we can get him on a 2 year deal...we need to jump all over it. If someone wants to give him 3, let him go there. AC is a different type of DE, he is better against the run but worse as a pass rusher. We need his type of play, but we need to add in someone who can rush the passer.
They are both guys with decent but not elite speed that get their productivity based on working harder than the guy they are matched up on
Allen on the downswing is fine with me. Let the market sour on him and allow us to get him a little cheaper. What you all are missing is that Allen was also missing any help in Minnesota. Average (at best) D-line and mediocre secondary. In Tampa he gets McCoy on the other side and a fantastic secondary (Banks and Johnson not included). Even if he drops his sack totals by 30%, it would more than likely mean McCoy's totals (and the rest of the line) will go UP at least 30%. I'll take that any day of the year as long as we don't overpay. Anything less than $6 mil for 2-3 years would be a steal for someone who could take our sack totals up by that amount (not to mention pressures). It also means we free up a first or second round draft pick which would be HUGE.
Clayborn - 7.5, 0, 6Allen - 9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5Tell me again about productivity being similar.
Clayborn - 7.5, 0, 6Allen - 9,11,7.5,15.5,14.5,14.5,11,22,12,11.5Tell me again about productivity being similar.
Who is talking about their history? I'm saying right now.
