A lot of guys that deserved to be pro bowlers - didn’t make the list - but especially after two straight years of production under two different OC’s makes it hard to see Baker getting left out, while Jayden Daniels makes it… is just wild to me.
I agree that this is now the “Chip” fodder - and at the perfect time.
Jayden is a media darling. It's all popularity and market.
I am not saying I dont think he is a true #1
So, do you view Evans as a true WR1?
Do you view Godwin as a true WR1?
Regardless of your answers on these, who would you consider a true WR1 currently in the NFL and why?
I just answered this in another post responding to you
Not sure I’m seeing it, or which one you’re referring to.
That being said, Mike is most definitely a WR1. No debate.
Godwin, IMO, is one of the best WR2’s in the league; but he’s not a WR1.
I agree. Let's start with that lol
But, I said that a traditional WR1 is in between them. Evans is our WR1 and he is a WR1, but the perception of him is closer to the way I describe him in the thread, whch is a very talented HOF receiver who is the scorer/finisher, not the 6' down in and out 100+ reception receiver
A lot of guys that deserved to be pro bowlers - didn’t make the list - but especially after two straight years of production under two different OC’s makes it hard to see Baker getting left out, while Jayden Daniels makes it… is just wild to me.
This is irrelevant.
His numbers alone this year warranted a PB nod.
But, if there’s one thing we’ve all universally agreed on, it’s that the PB is a joke.
But, if there’s one thing we’ve all universally agreed on, it’s that the PB is a joke.
For sure, but it matters unfortunately. This is from a NY-area selector discussing whether Eli Manning is a HOFer:
"The moral: If the Hall induction doesn’t happen fast for any given candidate, good luck. There are only so many slots (or so few) each year. Yeah, it’s supposed to be tough to get in. It’s not the Hall of the Very Good. But it can still be so subjective.
Great stats, Pro Bowl selections and All-Decade status surely boost the cases of any candidate."
A lot of guys that deserved to be pro bowlers - didn’t make the list - but especially after two straight years of production under two different OC’s makes it hard to see Baker getting left out, while Jayden Daniels makes it… is just wild to me.
I agree that this is now the “Chip” fodder - and at the perfect time.
Jayden is a media darling. It's all popularity and market.
yes and in terms of the HOF popularity/market still apply AND the selectors are just like fans, meaning they are influenced by the hype. This is why I worry about LVD
LVD is a legitimately great talent but with nearly zero personality and campaigning and a small market to begin with. He also plays a position/role that the HOF has had trouble considering. You might recall that people questioned whether Derrick Brooks really had all those tackles or was it something about the defense? Wasnt Ronde just a benificary of a great defense and scheme around him
I said that a traditional WR1 is in between them. Evans is our WR1 and he is a WR1, but the perception of him is closer to the way I describe him in the thread, whch is a very talented HOF receiver who is the scorer/finisher, not the 6' down in and out 100+ reception receiv
Today Josh Q:
Mike Evans Is Becoming A Different Receiver
"And this is a new version of Mike Evans. Only 15% of his targets are of 20+ air yards. That is the lowest rate of his career by almost 4%. And it’s not just that he is trading those targets for underneath opportunities. He is getting half of his targets between 11-20 yards, which is the third-highest rate of his career.
Evans is being moved around the field at a higher rate to find him more advantageous matchups and prevent the defense from simply being able to bracket him on one side of a 3×1 as in years past. From Week 12 to Week 16 Evans was in the slot 40.8% of the time. In only 10 other instances has he had a five-game run of higher slot usage."
"His route distribution is evolving as well. He is running go routes, curls, and seams 10% less than he did from 2020 to 2023. In place of those routes are slants, posts, drags and deep crosses. The Bucs are trying to get Evans over the middle of the field more."
All told his route distribution on in-breakers (slants, digs, deep crosses, posts and drags) is up to 6% this year from 33 to 39%. Those have taken the place of the traditional verticals like fly patterns, deep curls and seams. And you can see it in his average depth of target. Evans is on pace for a career-low 13.0 average depth of target. But his yards per catch isn’t suffering very much. At 14.1 yards per catch, it would tie the third-lowest output of his career but would mark the fifth of 11 seasons where he was between 14 and 15 yards per catch"
those excerpts make TWO points
1) Mike Evans is not only awesome he is a real team player
2) the perception of him is driven by the OLD VERSION of him that existed for all but may the last 2 years of his career. Coen actual described that VERSION of Evans like this:
"“When you’ve got a guy that typically defenses want to cloud and you just stick him out there at No. 1 and say, ‘Mike, run vertical,’ the chances of him getting one-on-one are, at times, little,” Bucs offensive coordinator Liam Coen said. "
That "go vertical" is the deep threat receiver not the traditional #1. Thats why I said he and Godwin have always sort of been each one half of a traditional #1. Not that Evans is/was incapable. Far from it. Just that he is obviously thought of by the totality of his work and for many years that has been primarily "go vertical."
The difficult irony of sports. wisdom arrive as physical skills declining. LVD has always been a class act. Hope he gets in the HOF
“It’s behind me, it’s all behind me man,” David said. “It’s a blessing to be considered as an alternate, but it’s all behind me. I’m older and wiser now. I’m not letting that bring me down.”
David could come back as a backup at maybe $4 mil, but does he want to do that? He'll probably retire, but I wouldn't say that's set in stone. Maybe he just doesn't want it to end.
Maybe he just doesn't want it to end.
nobody does
The GREATEST Buc LB, Derrick Brooks, was an unclaimed FREE AGENT for an entire season
This is SR today writing about Evans being a first ballot HOFer because of matching Rice's record, but the point he is making about Evans right in first sentence is really why LVD might have a tough time
"Bucs wide receiver Mike Evans has long been overlooked as one of the game’s best wide receivers. It really wasn’t until Tom Brady came to Tampa Bay and helped the Bucs win Super Bowl LV that Evans really started to get a lot of national attention."
This is SR today writing about Evans being a first ballot HOFer because of matching Rice's record, but the point he is making about Evans right in first sentence is really why LVD might have a tough time
"Bucs wide receiver Mike Evans has long been overlooked as one of the game’s best wide receivers. It really wasn’t until Tom Brady came to Tampa Bay and helped the Bucs win Super Bowl LV that Evans really started to get a lot of national attention."
LVD will get in.
Not as easily as Mike, but he’ll get in.
This is SR today writing about Evans being a first ballot HOFer because of matching Rice's record, but the point he is making about Evans right in first sentence is really why LVD might have a tough time
"Bucs wide receiver Mike Evans has long been overlooked as one of the game’s best wide receivers. It really wasn’t until Tom Brady came to Tampa Bay and helped the Bucs win Super Bowl LV that Evans really started to get a lot of national attention."
LVD will get in.
Not as easily as Mike, but he’ll get in.
Definitely hope so. He's been everything the Bucs could've asked for and MUCH more
I am not saying I dont think he is a true #1
So, do you view Evans as a true WR1?
Do you view Godwin as a true WR1?
Regardless of your answers on these, who would you consider a true WR1 currently in the NFL and why?
I just answered this in another post responding to you
Not sure I’m seeing it, or which one you’re referring to.
That being said, Mike is most definitely a WR1. No debate.
Godwin, IMO, is one of the best WR2’s in the league; but he’s not a WR1.
Not sure what there is to debate here.
Mike is a WR1 both in production, coverage, and scheme.
Godwin is a Wr2 that can produce like a WR1 in the slot against the CB2 or slot corner.
Love both players but Godwin tried to line up wide and he didn't do shit... Canales was an idiot. Coen gets it.
End of discussion
True. And it turns out even the dingleberry's "external perception" argument is foolish. Mike Evans, going into his 12th season, was voted as the #9 WR in the NFL by league executives, coaches, and scouts:
9. Mike Evans, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Highest ranking: 5 | Lowest ranking: Unranked
Age: 31 | Last year's ranking: 8This is where things get interesting. Evans was one of five receivers in a voting cluster for the ninth and 10 spots -- Garrett Wilson, Terry McLaurin, Puka Nacua and Brian Thomas Jr. were the others. We put that group into a tiebreaker for several high-ranking evaluators, and Evans was deemed the clear No. 1.
The consensus is that Evans is still a premier outside threat at 31.
"If you're trying to win one game or win on third down, you're still picking him really high," an NFL general manager said. "He'll decline eventually but I haven't seen any signs of it. He's still a beast."
As multiple coaches noted, Evans pushed through an 11th straight season with at least 1,000 yards -- a streak tied with Jerry Rice for the most in NFL history -- despite a bad hamstring costing him three games. Evans also cut his drops from nine to four this past season.
The Bucs have done a good job preserving Evans with 671 snaps in 14 games (48 per game), but one veteran AFC scout still wondered whether Evans might retire after 2025.
"This might be it for him," the scout said. "But he looked awesome last year."
I am not saying I dont think he is a true #1
So, do you view Evans as a true WR1?
Do you view Godwin as a true WR1?
Regardless of your answers on these, who would you consider a true WR1 currently in the NFL and why?
I just answered this in another post responding to you
Not sure I’m seeing it, or which one you’re referring to.
That being said, Mike is most definitely a WR1. No debate.
Godwin, IMO, is one of the best WR2’s in the league; but he’s not a WR1.
Not sure what there is to debate here.
Mike is a WR1 both in production, coverage, and scheme.
Godwin is a Wr2 that can produce like a WR1 in the slot against the CB2 or slot corner.
Love both players but Godwin tried to line up wide and he didn't do shit... Canales was an idiot. Coen gets it.
End of discussion
True. And it turns out even the dingleberry's "external perception" argument is foolish. Mike Evans, going into his 12th season, was voted as the #9 WR in the NFL by league executives, coaches, and scouts:
9. Mike Evans, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Highest ranking: 5 | Lowest ranking: Unranked
Age: 31 | Last year's ranking: 8This is where things get interesting. Evans was one of five receivers in a voting cluster for the ninth and 10 spots -- Garrett Wilson, Terry McLaurin, Puka Nacua and Brian Thomas Jr. were the others. We put that group into a tiebreaker for several high-ranking evaluators, and Evans was deemed the clear No. 1.
The consensus is that Evans is still a premier outside threat at 31.
"If you're trying to win one game or win on third down, you're still picking him really high," an NFL general manager said. "He'll decline eventually but I haven't seen any signs of it. He's still a beast."
As multiple coaches noted, Evans pushed through an 11th straight season with at least 1,000 yards -- a streak tied with Jerry Rice for the most in NFL history -- despite a bad hamstring costing him three games. Evans also cut his drops from nine to four this past season.
The Bucs have done a good job preserving Evans with 671 snaps in 14 games (48 per game), but one veteran AFC scout still wondered whether Evans might retire after 2025.
"This might be it for him," the scout said. "But he looked awesome last year."
Hmmm . . wonder why you guys are scared to take that bet? ROFLMAO
I stand by my position. Its not my fault if you cant comprehend it. . . . that is why there is/was a bet in the first place, right?
Guys who said White would be the lead dog all season and the Bucky Irving pick was a bad one . .. and Canales would run Waldron's offense . . . Canales . . the guy who put Godwin OUTSIDE lmao.
Bet still open.
ZERO . . . zero . . less than zero. . . . chance you take it.
How about that BET?
While you run from that, heres a little something from the Bucs and . . . . COEN
"It is possible, however, that Godwin has not yet had his best NFL season. There are reasons to be optimistic he could reach new heights in 2024, not the least of which is his move back to being the Buccaneers' primary slot receiver. That was the plan hatched by first-year Offensive Coordinator Liam Coen, who was with the Los Angeles Rams during Cooper Kupp's rise to stardom and sees great potential in Godwin filling the type of role Kupp does in Sean McVay's offense. "
That was NOT the plan by your guy . . Waldron . . . err . . . Canales, right?
Coen's plan . . the guy who made Irving (not White) the top dog (ouch), setting records along the way.
This was Godwin under Coen, back in the slot
"Before the injury, he was on track for a career-best season, with 50 catches, 576 yards, and 5 touchdowns in just seven games."
So thats on track for 120 receptions, 1400 yards, 12 TDs
Like Cupp . .. the CONDUIT for the offense.
Now . . . about that bet?
:-)