Correct. The Over/Under in Wins is another metric to verify this point:
2022 Over/Under Wins - 11.5
2023 Over/Under Wins - 6.5
Wait a damn minute!!!
That's blasphemy!!!
Don't they know we have "essentially the same team"?!?!??!
I mean, it can't be because we lost Andy Dalton, right?!?!
Lets look at it another way.the convo is almost impossible to follow but it looks like it went from “essentially the same team” to “okay different payers but should still be about the same.” Lol. Now, back to “essentially the same?”
The flip-flopping has been entertaining to watch, no doubt.
GM Licht - same.
HC Bowles - same.
Coaching staff -
New 6.
Returning 20.
Core players lost: Brady, Fournette. (2)
Core players retained: Barrett, Evans, Godwin, Wirfs, Jensen, Vea, White, Dean, Winfield, Davis. (10)
15 of top 16 salaries are returning players (see Spotrac).
1 of top 16 salaries new players - (1st round pick).
Average number of players retained for an NFL team (Over the Cap) - 30.
Estimated returning players on Week 1 Bucs roster - 40. (current number is 44)
The most important players with the exception of Brady, core players, as you can see , are still here. The players who were lost were role players, rotational, depth or short term rental players. They are being replaced with players already on the team for the most part. As I have said, the turnover is less than an average NFL team in any given year. That is what I mean.
So when I say "essentially the same" I mean the heart of the team other than the QB is the same. Most of the players and coaches are the same. That's my meaning which I haven't "flip flopped" on. So you can choose to make fun of my choice of words. Fair enough. They're fair game. And that's understandable that you focus on that, because it's tough to debate the actual point I've been making all along, that in the "Not For Long" league where change is the only constant, the Buccaneers are making relatively few changes. The narrative that the Bucs are undergoing some kind of transition period is just not accurate. It's tough to debate that, because it's tough to debate the facts as shown above. So keep nitpicking about my choice of words if it makes you happy.
And that's understandable that you focus on that, because it's tough to debate the actual point I've been making all along, that in the "Not For Long" league where change is the only constant, the Buccaneers are making relatively few changes.
It's not tough to debate this point, as it's the point you've been hammered on repeatedly. You simply can't grasp that you are flat out wrong. The Buccaneers have not made "relatively few changes," they have made very significant changes. "Relatively few changes" doesn't get your projected win total cut in half or see half of the starting positions with new players. Half of the starters on offense and defense are different from 2022 Opening Depth Chart. Half. Not a few. Fuggin' half of the starting positions are different from one year ago. You were given a position by position break-down, which you've ignored for obvious reasons and highlighted only Brady and Fournette.
You are simply wrong, and have been wrong on this subject for months. Apparently, you have no desire to stop being wrong, so here we are.
The narrative that the Bucs are undergoing some kind of transition period is just not accurate. It's tough to debate that, because it's tough to debate the facts as shown above. So keep nitpicking about my choice of words if it makes you happy.
Sweet geebus man, you are completely delusional or your analysis is just awful. Could be combo of both. I'm open to all alternatives, but these aren't the posts of someone that understands football - or simple math for that matter.
Compare top ten salaries from 2022 to 2023- the Bucs vs. some random teams using Spotrac.
Top salaries from 2022 still on the team in 2023.
Vikings: 4 of 10 still on the team. That's a transition.
Bills: 8 of 10 still on the team. That's a team not in transition.
Packers: 5 of 10. Transition.
Chiefs: 6 of 10.
Saints: 9 of 10. Not in transition.
Panthers: 7 of 10.
Rams: 3 of 10. Transition.
Steelers: 5 of 10.
Broncos: 7 of 10
Bucs 21 to 22: 7 of 10. Run it back again?
Bucs 20 to 21: 10 of 10. Run it back.
Bucs 22 to 23: 8 of 10. Not transition.
This is what I mean when I say "essentially the same team". The Bucs are not in transition this year when you look at the fact that you have the same head coach, most of the same core players and a larger than usual number of returning players likely to make the final 53 roster. The narrative that the Bucs are in some kind of soft transition is not born out by the facts. Are the Saints in transition? No. They have a new QB. They are looked at as a good team that needed a QB, and they got one. The Bucs are in the same boat, except the QB change is a downgrade rather than an upgrade, and that's where the dire predictions are coming from.
Lets look at it another way.the convo is almost impossible to follow but it looks like it went from “essentially the same team” to “okay different payers but should still be about the same.” Lol. Now, back to “essentially the same?”
The flip-flopping has been entertaining to watch, no doubt.
GM Licht - same.
HC Bowles - same.
Coaching staff -
New 6.
Returning 20.
Core players lost: Brady, Fournette. (2)
Core players retained: Barrett, Evans, Godwin, Wirfs, Jensen, Vea, White, Dean, Winfield, Davis. (10)
15 of top 16 salaries are returning players (see Spotrac).
1 of top 16 salaries new players - (1st round pick).
Average number of players retained for an NFL team (Over the Cap) - 30.
Estimated returning players on Week 1 Bucs roster - 40. (current number is 44)
The most important players with the exception of Brady, core players, as you can see , are still here. The players who were lost were role players, rotational, depth or short term rental players. They are being replaced with players already on the team for the most part. As I have said, the turnover is less than an average NFL team in any given year. That is what I mean.
So when I say "essentially the same" I mean the heart of the team other than the QB is the same. Most of the players and coaches are the same. That's my meaning which I haven't "flip flopped" on. So you can choose to make fun of my choice of words. Fair enough. They're fair game. And that's understandable that you focus on that, because it's tough to debate the actual point I've been making all along, that in the "Not For Long" league where change is the only constant, the Buccaneers are making relatively few changes. The narrative that the Bucs are undergoing some kind of transition period is just not accurate. It's tough to debate that, because it's tough to debate the facts as shown above. So keep nitpicking about my choice of words if it makes you happy.
so the stat of top 16 salaried players to me says that the Bucs didn’t go out and try to get “significantly” better.
additionally we were a losing team last year so if somehow Brady decided to return this year I’m guessing they would have added some new pieces to try and reload and more kicking can down the road cap.
im not arguing against the Bucs approach this offseason….I just think we have potential to be a bottom 5 team with the upside of maybe 7 wins
if baker is a stud, than I agree with your assessment but that’s a mighty big IF given his current body of work
You got me on the Packers. They are in transition based on that stat, so I won't claim otherwise. But Baktiari may be doing a little sandbagging with his comments which downplay his team's chances. They are in a division with the Lions, Bears and Vikings. They can win that division. Some teams continue to be competitive year after year. The Bucs aspire to be one of those teams, not a team who tears it down, bottoms out and rebuilds. Easier said than done, but that's what Licht wants to do IMO.The Packers got rid of Rodgers. Nobody is saying they are rebuilding.
Packers: 5 of 10. Transition.
Maybe we can add bipolar to the list.
You are in the majority. The Bucs didn't add any major pieces other than the draft. And they lost Brady. Many think he was covering up for deficiencies. Looking at it that way, it's easy to factor in a few more losses. What's not being factored in is the drama and distractions that may have weighed down the team last year, and the fact that the league had familiarity with the offense and was able to game plan against it. Now the Bucs with a new offensive plan will be able to refocus and rededicate themselves. Or not. But I think they have talented players and good leadership on the team. They have to believe in themselves, because nobody else does. But they have the players already on the team to have a winning season IMO.Lets look at it another way.the convo is almost impossible to follow but it looks like it went from “essentially the same team” to “okay different payers but should still be about the same.” Lol. Now, back to “essentially the same?”
The flip-flopping has been entertaining to watch, no doubt.
GM Licht - same.
HC Bowles - same.
Coaching staff -
New 6.
Returning 20.
Core players lost: Brady, Fournette. (2)
Core players retained: Barrett, Evans, Godwin, Wirfs, Jensen, Vea, White, Dean, Winfield, Davis. (10)
15 of top 16 salaries are returning players (see Spotrac).
1 of top 16 salaries new players - (1st round pick).
Average number of players retained for an NFL team (Over the Cap) - 30.
Estimated returning players on Week 1 Bucs roster - 40. (current number is 44)
The most important players with the exception of Brady, core players, as you can see , are still here. The players who were lost were role players, rotational, depth or short term rental players. They are being replaced with players already on the team for the most part. As I have said, the turnover is less than an average NFL team in any given year. That is what I mean.
So when I say "essentially the same" I mean the heart of the team other than the QB is the same. Most of the players and coaches are the same. That's my meaning which I haven't "flip flopped" on. So you can choose to make fun of my choice of words. Fair enough. They're fair game. And that's understandable that you focus on that, because it's tough to debate the actual point I've been making all along, that in the "Not For Long" league where change is the only constant, the Buccaneers are making relatively few changes. The narrative that the Bucs are undergoing some kind of transition period is just not accurate. It's tough to debate that, because it's tough to debate the facts as shown above. So keep nitpicking about my choice of words if it makes you happy.
so the stat of top 16 salaried players to me says that the Bucs didn’t go out and try to get “significantly” better.
additionally we were a losing team last year so if somehow Brady decided to return this year I’m guessing they would have added some new pieces to try and reload and more kicking can down the road cap.
im not arguing against the Bucs approach this offseason….I just think we have potential to be a bottom 5 team with the upside of maybe 7 wins
if baker is a stud, than I agree with your assessment but that’s a mighty big IF given his current body of work
essentially the same team
THEN
not the same players but some upgrades
THEN
But they have the players already on the team to have a winning season IMO.
some might wonder if you are a traffic bot hired by PR to keep the website alive
:-)
The narrative that the Bucs are in some kind of soft transition is not born out by the facts.
huh?
"I don’t want to say taking a step back, Licht said Tuesday. “We’re still trying to restock and eventually build another championship team, and it’s just going to look a little different and be done a little bit differently. We were in a position in 2020 after we won the Super Bowl to be able to re-sign all of our players, which hadn’t been done, or hadn’t been done in a very long time.
“The goal is eventually to get back into a position like that, but in the short term, we still want to win and compete for this division – and we think we can. We just want to do it without sacrificing our long-term plans, our long-term goals, as well. I think we can find a way to do both at the same time.”
I never said they were making another Superbowl run. I said they could win, meaning they could win the division. As for restocking, the Bucs are restocking with the normal amount of draft picks. What else have they done? Mayfield, Feiler and Neal and McGlaughlin all are bargain basement one year rentals. Maybe next year they'll cast aside White and Barrett, but even then they have too many guys under contract, Winfield and Wirfs will probably have long term deals by then as well. If the Bucs want to pare it down, trade veterans and tank for good draft picks they'll have to move on from Jason Licht. He's never going to do that.The narrative that the Bucs are in some kind of soft transition is not born out by the facts.
huh?
"I don’t want to say taking a step back, Licht said Tuesday. “We’re still trying to restock and eventually build another championship team, and it’s just going to look a little different and be done a little bit differently. We were in a position in 2020 after we won the Super Bowl to be able to re-sign all of our players, which hadn’t been done, or hadn’t been done in a very long time.
“The goal is eventually to get back into a position like that, but in the short term, we still want to win and compete for this division – and we think we can. We just want to do it without sacrificing our long-term plans, our long-term goals, as well. I think we can find a way to do both at the same time.”
So when I say "essentially the same" I mean the heart of the team other than the QB is the same.
So, we're now on version 7.0 of your "essentially the same" team.
Can't wait to see what the next one is.
because it's tough to debate the actual point I've been making all along
Lol.
Buddy, it's been easy like Sunday morning debating your point (and tearing it apart).
Again, why does Vegas have our win total going from 11.5 (last year) down to 6.5 (this year)?
I mean, it can't be from losing our garden variety Andy Dalton, right?
That's such a huge drop for "essentially the same team"
I never said they were making another Superbowl run. I said they could win, meaning they could win the division. As for restocking, the Bucs are restocking with the normal amount of draft picks. What else have they done? Mayfield, Feiler and Neal and McGlaughlin all are bargain basement one year rentals. Maybe next year they'll cast aside White and Barrett, but even then they have too many guys under contract, Winfield and Wirfs will probably have long term deals by then as well. If the Bucs want to pare it down, trade veterans and tank for good draft picks they'll have to move on from Jason Licht. He's never going to do that.The narrative that the Bucs are in some kind of soft transition is not born out by the facts.
huh?
"I don’t want to say taking a step back, Licht said Tuesday. “We’re still trying to restock and eventually build another championship team, and it’s just going to look a little different and be done a little bit differently. We were in a position in 2020 after we won the Super Bowl to be able to re-sign all of our players, which hadn’t been done, or hadn’t been done in a very long time.
“The goal is eventually to get back into a position like that, but in the short term, we still want to win and compete for this division – and we think we can. We just want to do it without sacrificing our long-term plans, our long-term goals, as well. I think we can find a way to do both at the same time.”
you said no soft transition.that is precisely what they are doing. In fact, your post I am quoting basically says they are lol, as a criticism.you post in circles
If the Bucs want to pare it down, trade veterans and tank for good draft picks they'll have to move on from Jason Licht. He's never going to do that
Every year is a transition in the NFL. That's my point. Sure the Bucs don't have Tom Brady or Rob Gronkowski anymore. To transition means you are giving something up this year for the benefit of the future years. What have they done to add draft picks or trade veteran players, etc? They have the cap restrictions from their Superbowl run. Licht has no choice about that. The Bucs still have their core players except for Brady. A transition implies to me that you are changing your core players and bringing in new ones. You don't have a coach on the hotseat during a transition. Other than the normal influx of draft picks, what have they done to transition?I never said they were making another Superbowl run. I said they could win, meaning they could win the division. As for restocking, the Bucs are restocking with the normal amount of draft picks. What else have they done? Mayfield, Feiler and Neal and McGlaughlin all are bargain basement one year rentals. Maybe next year they'll cast aside White and Barrett, but even then they have too many guys under contract, Winfield and Wirfs will probably have long term deals by then as well. If the Bucs want to pare it down, trade veterans and tank for good draft picks they'll have to move on from Jason Licht. He's never going to do that.The narrative that the Bucs are in some kind of soft transition is not born out by the facts.
huh?
"I don’t want to say taking a step back, Licht said Tuesday. “We’re still trying to restock and eventually build another championship team, and it’s just going to look a little different and be done a little bit differently. We were in a position in 2020 after we won the Super Bowl to be able to re-sign all of our players, which hadn’t been done, or hadn’t been done in a very long time.
“The goal is eventually to get back into a position like that, but in the short term, we still want to win and compete for this division – and we think we can. We just want to do it without sacrificing our long-term plans, our long-term goals, as well. I think we can find a way to do both at the same time.”
you said no soft transition.
that is precisely what they are doing. In fact, your post I am quoting basically says they are lol, as a criticism.
you post in circles
