Brady is going to be a HUGE reason why Mike and Lavonte get in.
Very good point
Definitely!
I hope LVD makes it. He's been on the interview circuit this offseason so they recognize the challenge.
even after he left, the impact is felt. He won us a Super Bowl and changed the culture
I may be in the minority here, but I think it was Arians and Licht who really changed the culture.
I say that because there are TWO sides to the Tom Brady coin. On the first side, he did exactly what makes him a GOAT . . he challenged everyone and definitely raised the standard and we won a Super Bowl.
Cant emphasize that enough.
However, he also ended his time here with a vanity play (like many great players do) where he mostly unraveled all the good he had done.
If you listen to many of the players who are winning now under Bowles they had totally tuned out Brady 2022 because, at least in part, he no longer walked the walk. The GOAT Brady would have never gone to a party over training, as one example.
Agree to disagree
When Arians joined, the Bucs went 7-9 with a QB that threw 36 touchdowns and a QB with #1 overall pick pedigree. he was QB whisper but couldn't fix Jameis
Bucs likely still would have been competitive but without Brady and insert say even Baker Mayfield in 2020; the Bucs do NOT win a Superbowl or have their best win season the following year. Instead of Arians having 2 playoff seasons in 3 years, he likely goes 0 for 3...or at best Bucs sneak in with 1 wild card birth.
Licht is a great GM. He drafts well some years, borderline retarded others. It's a true statement that the Bucs do NOT win the Superbowl without his draft selections but the Bucs would not even be in championship discussion had Brady not joined the team
I mean shit, look at the current Bucs under Baker. Dude is a baller and still Bucs were 9,10 win teams the last 2 years. No one seriously considers us as a Super bowl contender this year except us homer Buc Fans
Dont underestimate the magnitude of what Brady did for us!
If Brady is a top 10 Buc player, then Gruden is the greatest Bucs coach?
I dont know thats true lol, but the point is Gruden did sort of the same thing Brady did, he came in and challenged EVERY player. He raised the standard. Even Derrick Brooks says that.
BUT, just like Brady Gruden was a coin with two sides.
With Brady in 2022 the Bucs went down THROWING . . basically abandoning the run and throwing and throwing even more. And that power-driven imbalance ended their season
With Gruden post 2002, his "power driven imbalance" was a belief that HE could win with any QB, so use the power to stage a coup (Allen for Mckay) and then pass on Rodgers for Caddy . . etc.
Human beings, both of them.
Listen there is no one that likes Gruden or his email etiquette more than me and he certainly deserves Wall of Fame and kudos for Bucs Super Bowl
that being said, not even close
Gruden inherited a perennial playoff team that lacked offense. Gruden came in with swagger and that was a magical season. Total disappointment in how his talent evaluation played out with Tampa.
i mean he replaced Sapp and Lynch with the likes of Charlie Garner and Tim Brown. Couldn't draft for shit as Allen was his puppet
that being said, Bucs fired him and then a decade of slop ensued. It was a decade where we could only dream of Gruden's mediocre teams post McKay
if i had to rank coaches, probably goes like this
1. Tony Dungy - didn't win the big one, but the franchise was laughing stock for 2 decades before he changed the culture
2. Jon Gruden - Won a Super Bowl, had a few other playoff seasons
3. Bruce Arians - Won a Superbowl, benefited from Brady, but short lived, only coached 3 years
4. John McKay - the OG
5. Todd Bowles - a shit franchise leaves the bar pretty low but guy is 3 for 3 in playoff appearances. A Superbowl win away from jumping to #1! could you imagine lmao
When Arians joined, the Bucs went 7-9 with a QB that threw 36 touchdowns and a QB with #1 overall pick pedigree. he was QB whisper but couldn't fix Jameis
I'll never forget the amount of shit he talked about how Jameis was misused and that he would fix him. The predictable, perpetually uninformed goobers gobbled it up - only for Winston to become an even bigger, historical turnover machine under Arians. I loved the hire and still appreciate Arians for what he did here, but he was an enormous bullshit artist. And while he and Licht made the team attractive for Brady to come to, Brady was the guy that turned the franchise around. Any argument otherwise is pretty foolish.
When Arians joined, the Bucs went 7-9 with a QB that threw 36 touchdowns and a QB with #1 overall pick pedigree. he was QB whisper but couldn't fix Jameis
I'll never forget the amount of shit he talked about how Jameis was misused and that he would fix him. The predictable, perpetually uninformed goobers gobbled it up - only for Winston to become an even bigger, historical turnover machine under Arians. I loved the hire and still appreciate Arians for what he did here, but he was an enormous bullshit artist. And while he and Licht made the team attractive for Brady to come to, Brady was the guy that turned the franchise around. Any argument otherwise is pretty foolish.
I would tend to agree with this. However, another way to look at it is that Licht brought Arians to TB. Then Licht brought Brady to TB. Then along with some great recent drafts picks along the way, Licht brought several key free agents to TB who formed the core of the SB win. The pass rushers who harassed Mahomes all game long. ALL the players who scored: Brady to Gronkowski twice, Brady to Brown, Fournette, Succop xps and fg. So some could argue it was Licht. But he was here since 2014! The early Licht years were nothing to brag about.
Brady brought hope, excitement, and hype to TB. And then he put the players to work on his own before OTAs and Training Camp. And he pushed his teammates to become better. It's Brady for me.
ALL the players who scored: Brady to Gronkowski twice, Brady to Brown, Fournette, Succop xps and fg. So some could argue it was Licht.
Would you argue that Brady had more to with Gronkowski, Brown, & Fournette signing here, or Licht?
I don't think any of those dudes wind up in Tampa without Brady being here first.
Good point. Another compelling reason to vote for Brady.
ALL the players who scored: Brady to Gronkowski twice, Brady to Brown, Fournette, Succop xps and fg. So some could argue it was Licht.
Would you argue that Brady had more to with Gronkowski, Brown, & Fournette signing here, or Licht?
I don't think any of those dudes wind up in Tampa without Brady being here first.
Also they scored because KC game plan was to take Godwin and Evans out of the game. Sometimes stats are a product of strategy.
Agree to disagree
RESPECT
Any argument otherwise is pretty foolish.
twerp lol
:-)
When Arians joined, the Bucs went 7-9 with a QB that threw 36 touchdowns and a QB with #1 overall pick pedigree. he was QB whisper
Fair points, but just to explain what I see as the difference, conceding it may be a minority view, is that my comment was abpout culture, part of which was gettiing rid of Winston (the year to reference). Winston has done squat since, so Arians mission accomplishes
Anyway here is why I say Licht Arians:
1.Licht is the wellspring of it all
2. The culture still exists today (with a lesser team)
3. many players were OVER Brady after 2022.
Licht was the wellspring
Licht is there before Brady and remains after.
Licht brought in Arians and built a defense that was capable of winning it . . all KEY points to Brady even coming here. We know that because Brady has said so and even said that Chicago made a play for him. The Bears were coached by Matt Nagy and he was firing an entire offensive coaching staff. By comparison, Arian was a legend. the Chicago. Brady was trying to win for his legacy. He chose the Bucs and the big reason (especially compared to the Chicago) has to be the GM and coach, both of whom he was very familiar with. Weather too and taxes, but winning ocsurs on the field.
Licht drafted Evan and Godwin (two things that appealed to Brady) and Wirfs and Winfield. He brought in JPP and then Barrett and Suh, and White etc.
He also managed the cap to be able to squeeze all those players into the team, including the ones that Brady brought with him
Culture still exist today/Players over Brady
Brady deserves a 100% credit for the 20 and 21 culture, but dont forget he TRIED TO BAIL ON THE TEAM IN 2022. he then came back and even thogh many fans here seemed to think the Bucs were immediate contender they were not. If you listen to players speak about that season, the Bucs had to move on from it AND THEY DID under Bowles, even with much less talent and heavy dead cap.
And THROUGH IT ALL there is Licht (and Arians and Bowles) . . . find Canales and then Licht keep all the key players he can and the Bucs overperform into the playoffs. No Brady, no Gronk, no AB. The central aspect of the 2023 and 2024 teams being . . CULTURE . . .a. culture driven by the HC and the QB. And LICHT and even Arians.
ZERO CREDIT TAKEN FROM BRADY for his greatness on the field, just saying that there is no Brady (and ll those players) without Licht > Arians > Bowles
no doubt 2022 was a dud year. I blamed Bowles and Leftwich but no doubt Brady regressed...otherwise he would have signed with 49ers if he didnt think he was toast
im sure his divorce weighed heavily on him and yeah, i was over Brady after 2022 season as well...the gas tank was empty.
but 2020 and 2021 were magical seasons and we may never experience that type of excitement ever again
i have enjoyed these last 2 years, the most successful we've been sans Brady years, in 2 decades. but even so, it's come at a 9-8 and 10-7 record; 1 playoff win; not exactly SuperBowl threats like we were in 2020 and 2021.
However, another way to look at it is that Licht brought Arians to TB.
Exactly.
If you consider that Licht gets hired (initially) to be a flunky for Lovie, he has come an incredibly long way and he brought the team with him
Licht started with one of the very worst Bucs teams and then progressed to a Super bowl and now . . THROUGH A CAP CONSTRAINED PERIOD . . winning the division and getting to the playoffs. and his fingerprints are on everything, dkey raft picks, FAs, HC, GOAT, HC.
Again, take nothing from Brady, a true legend, but I dont know that he is a top 10 BUCCANEER, if that means pushing out someone like Lynch.
To each their own though. If the Buccaneer list is really a list of best players who were Buccaneers, then Brady is arguably #1
(Licht has been so good at his job that even JC had to give up lol. He's moved on to "Emmitt Smith")
However, another way to look at it is that Licht brought Arians to TB.
Exactly.
If you consider that Licht gets hired (initially) to be a flunky for Lovie, he has come an incredibly long way and he brought the team with him
Licht started with one of the very worst Bucs teams and then progressed to a Super bowl and now . . THROUGH A CAP CONSTRAINED PERIOD . . winning the division and getting to the playoffs. and his fingerprints are on everything, dkey raft picks, FAs, HC, GOAT, HC.
Again, take nothing from Brady, a true legend, but I dont know that he is a top 10 BUCCANEER, if that means pushing out someone like Lynch.
To each their own though. If the Buccaneer list is really a list of best players who were Buccaneers, then Brady is arguably #1
(Licht has been so good at his job that even JC had to give up lol. He's moved on to "Emmitt Smith")
Yeah, this team we have right now has a much longer term success trajectory. 2020 was a go all in year. Almost like the goofy super teams in the NBA. But we closed the door and I am forever grateful that it happened. Licht should be up for NFL executive of the year, every year with what hes done since 2020. Crazy what he'd been able to do.