Of course I hope Wirfs gets a new contract and he probably will very soon. But are we supposed to give him adulation for "holding in" and coming to practice when he's only making a guaranteed $18 mil this year? I'm guessing he has some kind of injury insurance for a lot more than that so that he can come and practice. It's about the guaranteed money, and if God forbid Wirfs gets a serious injury that limits his effectiveness for the rest of his career the Bucs would still be taking a huge cap hit if they guarantee too much money. It could impact the Bucs ability to be competitive for years down the road.
Wirfs is under contract this year and can be franchise tagged next year if necessary. He's a nice guy and has a good shot at a future HOF, but injuries happen and the guaranteed money has to be kept under control. Wirfs is going to get a good chunk of guaranteed money no matter what and in the end he'll break the bank. It's just a matter of degree of bank breaking. But the Bucs shouldn't cave in when it comes to that guaranteed money.
I'm not pinning a medal on Wirfs who is making $18 mil guaranteed just because Jordan Love is holding out and he isn't. Licht is responsible for making sure there's not a huge chunk of dead money going against the cap for years to come. I hope that the guaranteed part of the contract is held to a reasonable amount.
I'm not pinning a medal on Wirfs who is making $18 mil guaranteed just because Jordan Love is holding out and he isn't.
Nobody asked you to, kiddo.
Sorry you can't see the difference between the 2 situations.
But, then again, your whole post rambled of "we should pay him, but not too much, but not too little, but not too much".
OK kiddo, what's the difference? Both are under contract for 2024. Love will make $10+ mil and Wirfs will make $18 mil, but they're both under contract. You don't have to get huffy about it. But I guess you need to explain the big difference.I'm not pinning a medal on Wirfs who is making $18 mil guaranteed just because Jordan Love is holding out and he isn't.
Nobody asked you to, kiddo.
Sorry you can't see the difference between the 2 situations.
But, then again, your whole post rambled of "we should pay him, but not too much, but not too little, but not too much".
I'll put it more simply for those who had a hard time with it.
A) I'm just pointing out that although Wirfs is a good guy and a key player media (specifically WDAE radio hosts) are going overboard drooling with praise for him for simply showing up. And
B) I don't think the Bucs should overpay in terms of the guaranteed money of the contract.
Hope that helps.
I'll put it more simply for those who had a hard time with it.
I'll do the same, since you're having a hard time with it.
You're trying to compare:
- A QB who played, essentially, their 1st full season
- An offensive tackle, who is multi-pro bowl, multi-AP honors, Super Bowl winner, and arguably the best player in the league at their position
A) I'm just pointing out that although Wirfs is a good guy and a key player media (specifically WDAE radio hosts) are going overboard drooling with praise for him for simply showing up.
And, rightfully so.
Congratulations on your first year of watching NFL football. You should do yourself a favor and research player holdouts throughout league history. Might help you out a bit.
B) I don't think the Bucs should overpay in terms of the guaranteed money of the contract.
He's going to reset the market. This has been known for a year (if not more).
Thank God you aren't the GM.
But the Bucs shouldn't cave in when it comes to that guaranteed money.
Then, we'll safely assume you wouldn't start a thread bitching about Wirfs leaving via FA because the Bucs wouldn't pay him what he's worth. Right?
Wirffs is already rated as one of best (if not THE best) LOT in the league, he knows it, his agent knows it, and Licht knows it.
He’s the key to the entire offensive line - he is more than a “good guy” he is HIGHLY valued for his on-field performance. He will fetch a kings ransom, and even so - he will be re-signed regardless of the price - and we will all count ourselves fortunate to have him.
There are roster spots you can plug in a good guy (fewer these days) but stellar, stud, wall of agility, LOT - just ain’t one of them.
As I stated, Wirfs could get the franchise tag next year. So the Bucs control him for the next two years.I'll put it more simply for those who had a hard time with it.
I'll do the same, since you're having a hard time with it.
You're trying to compare:
- A QB who played, essentially, their 1st full season
- An offensive tackle, who is multi-pro bowl, multi-AP honors, Super Bowl winner, and arguably the best player in the league at their position
A) I'm just pointing out that although Wirfs is a good guy and a key player media (specifically WDAE radio hosts) are going overboard drooling with praise for him for simply showing up.
And, rightfully so.
Congratulations on your first year of watching NFL football. You should do yourself a favor and research player holdouts throughout league history. Might help you out a bit.
B) I don't think the Bucs should overpay in terms of the guaranteed money of the contract.
He's going to reset the market. This has been known for a year (if not more).
Thank God you aren't the GM.
But the Bucs shouldn't cave in when it comes to that guaranteed money.
Then, we'll safely assume you wouldn't start a thread bitching about Wirfs leaving via FA because the Bucs wouldn't pay him what he's worth. Right?
As for reseting the market, I'm fine with that as far as the total dollars is concerned. He's possibly a future HOF. We need to pay him what the market says he's worth. I stated multiple times that it's the guaranteed money in future years that needs to be a reasonable amount. Sewell got $85 of $112 mil guaranteed. Darrisaw got $77.5 of $104 mil guaranteed. That's approximately 75% of the money guaranteed to those guys.
It will be interesting to see what percent of Wirf's deal is guaranteed. 75% is too much IMO if you are talking about a five year contract for $150 mil. If he were to get an injury that hampered his ability to play in top form for the next five years, the Bucs salary cap will be hampered for those years at an amount that will impact their ability to compete and pay future players. I don't care how much money Wirfs gets if he's healthy and performing well, but look what happened to Jensen. he only had $26 mil guaranteed on his last contract. They took a hit, but they got past it. Wirfs will probably have over $100 mil guaranteed.
I will correct one thing and that's my title. Wirfs is not doing a "hold in" whatever that entails.
I see that Tua got about 75% of his deal guaranteed over four years. So it seems the going amount for the guaranteed is 75% and four years seems to be the preferred number of years that they settle on. So if Wirfs gets $120 mil for four years that would be $90 mil guaranteed at that rate.
As I stated, Wirfs could get the franchise tag next year. So the Bucs control him for the next two years.
You keep acting like the weaponization of the 5th-year option and Franchise Tag is a good thing.
I mean, what could go wrong with this plan? I'm sure Tristan wouldn't be disgruntled at all not getting a long-term deal.
Solid game plan.
75% is too much IMO if you are talking about a five year contract for $150 mil.
Prepare to be upset.
"weaponization"? Wow. Whats a good thing is if the Bucs have control of their cap situation so they can have a winning team. That's the main thing. The prospect of the tag is part of the bargaining process. It helped the Bucs get their previous LT Donovan Smith under contract, even if they didn't actually use the tag, because he signed right before the tag was place on him. If the Bucs can somehow get Wirfs signed without giving away the store that's a good thing IMO. The fact that the tag possibility is there will only help the negotiations for the Bucs. Obviously, Wirfs is going to break the bank, but the devil is in the details. We'll see. The Bucs did pretty well with Mayfield and Winfield. So I don't think Licht and company are just going to capitulate when it comes to how the contract is structured.As I stated, Wirfs could get the franchise tag next year. So the Bucs control him for the next two years.
You keep acting like the weaponization of the 5th-year option and Franchise Tag is a good thing.
I mean, what could go wrong with this plan? I'm sure Tristan wouldn't be disgruntled at all not getting a long-term deal.
Solid game plan.
75% is too much IMO if you are talking about a five year contract for $150 mil.
Prepare to be upset.
I’m actually with @Donkey_Hunter on this. Control of the cap is necessary, but not if you think you can use it to deny/ignore/avoid actual market value.
Wirffs value will only rise in the period after the tag is applied. I’ve got to think that would be a last ditch move (emphasis on ditch).
I don’t think anyone involved is actually panicking.
Of course it's last ditch if they actually use it. But right now without the tag Wirfs agent would just tell him to play out the year for $18 mil and enter free agency. But it does exist, and so Wirfs agent can't use the prospect of free agency next year as a bargaining stance. That's good for the Bucs.I’m actually with @Donkey_Hunter on this. Control of the cap is necessary, but not if you think you can use it to deny/ignore/avoid actual market value.
Wirffs value will only rise in the period after the tag is applied. I’ve got to think that would be a last ditch move (emphasis on ditch).
I don’t think anyone involved is actually panicking.
...The Pro Bowler said after practice that he wants to strike the right balance between being out there with his teammates and taking the precautions he needs to take as he tries to achieve some long-term security with a new contract.
Well it actually is a "hold in" then.
Josh Queipo had a nice article on this last Friday, was going to touch on the points, but it’s a good article.
https://www.pewterreport.com/tristan-wirfs-what-may-hold-up-extension/
Agents are pressing for shorter three year contracts where the team wants a longer deal. So I'm pretty sure they'll settle on four years. ut what does that fourth year look like?
The team wants that fourth year to give the team flexibility. For example Winfield has an $18 mil 4th year, but the Bucs only have $8 mil dead cap. This gives the team flexibility to restructure Winfield by guaranteeing more money later. What the Bucs really want is a to be able to manipulate the cap by being able to restructure guys.
Wirfs agent is going to say "look we only want three years, but if you want us to go a 4th year then guarantee most of it. Why should we do a 4th year with little or none of it guaranteed which is only to your benefit? You want four years, then lock most of it in and we'll go four." So if they are hammering out details, I suspect it's that fourth year that is being hammered out right now.
