FAB 3. Bucs Have Veteran Options At QB In 2020

The Titans have already given up on Marcus Mariota and turned to Ryan Tannehill, who is 2-0 as a starter in Tennessee. Mariota, the second overall draft pick in 2015 behind Tampa Bay’s Jameis Winston, will most likely be an unrestricted free agent in 2020.

Will Winston be joining him? That depends on how the beleaguered Bucs quarterback fares over the last nine games of the season for 2-5 Tampa Bay. Winston has thrown 14 touchdowns this season is tied for seventh in the league, but with 12 interceptions, Winston is tied with Cleveland’s Baker Mayfield for the most picks in the NFL right now.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston
Bucs QB Jameis Winston – Photo by: Getty Images

Unless the narrative of Winston being a turnover machine somehow changes over the second half of the season, both of the top quarterbacks in the 2015 draft class will be with new teams next year, and that means Tampa Bay will be looking for a new signal caller under center in 2020.

While next year’s draft class looks promising with the likes of first-rounders, such as Alabama’s Tua Tagovailoa, LSU’s Joe Burrow and Oregon’s Justin Herbert, and possibly Washington’s Jacob Eason, don’t be surprised if the Bucs seek out a veteran quarterback in the second year of the Bruce Arians era. While he has worked wonders with rookie quarterbacks in the past, such as Indianapolis’ Peyton Manning in 1998 and Andrew Luck in 2012, Arians just turned 67 and wants to win now.

That was the case seven years ago in 2013 when he became the head coach in Arizona and the Cardinals traded for 33-year old Carson Palmer, who was 38-21-1 with Arians from 2013-17. Palmer and Arians had three straight playoff appearances during that span.

The Bucs have had success with veteran quarterbacks in the past, most notably with Brad Johnson, who won a Super Bowl in Tampa Bay at age 34. Johnson was a four-year starter in red and pewter through age 36. During the 2004 season, head coach Jon Gruden turned to another veteran in 29-year old Brian Griese after Johnson went 0-4 to start the season.

Former Bucs head coach Jon Gruden and QB Brad Johnson
Former Bucs head coach Jon Gruden and QB Brad Johnson – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

At age 30, Griese had the Bucs off to a 5-1 start before a torn ACL ended his season. Chris Simms, a third-round pick in 2004, helped guide Tampa Bay to an 11-5 season with a 6-4 record down the stretch. After Simms ruptured his spleen the next year, Gruden signed veteran Jeff Garcia in 2007 after the Bucs failed to land Brett Favre in a trade with Green Bay.

Garcia went to the Pro Bowl in 2007 at age 37 and led Tampa Bay to an NFC South title and a home playoff game. In fact, that was the Bucs’ last postseason appearance. Since then, the team has used a first-round pick on Josh Freeman in 2009, a third-round pick on Mike Glennon in 2013 and a first-round pick on Winston in 2015 – and none of those quarterbacks have helped get the Bucs to the playoffs.

The combined record of those three veteran quarterbacks in Tampa Bay was 52-42.

Record In Tampa Bay By Free Agent QBs (2001-08)

Brad Johnson 26-23 (53.6 percent)
Brian Griese 12-9 (57.1 percent)
Jeff Garcia 14-10 (58.3 percent)

All three had winning records with the Bucs, and that was much better than the record of the three quarterbacks Tampa Bay drafted since 2009, which is 52-86.

Record In Tampa Bay By Drafted QBs (2009-19)

Josh Freeman 24-35 (40.7 percent)
Mike Glennon 5-13 (27.7 percent)
Jameis Winston 23-38 (37.7 percent)

Of course, Josh McCown’s 1-10 record and Ryan Fitzpatrick’s 4-6 record as starters in Tampa Bay since 2014 is proof that just because the Bucs have a veteran QB doesn’t automatically guarantee success.

So aside from Mariota, what other veteran quarterbacks are poised to be free agents in 2020 if Tampa Bay wants to move on from Winston?

Chargers QB Philip Rivers
Chargers QB Philip Rivers – Photo by: Getty Images

The clear front-runner is future Hall of Famer Philip Rivers, who has 386 touchdowns and 185 interceptions in his 16 seasons for the Chargers in San Diego and Los Angeles. Rivers has an ideal 5.3 percent TD rate and a 2.5 percent INT rate in his career and is still going strong at age 38.

Rivers is an eight-time Pro Bowler, who has been to Orlando the last three seasons, including last year when he helped guide the Chargers to a 12-4 record. Los Angeles has underperformed this season with a 3-5 record, but Rivers is still having a good season completing 66.2 percent of his passes for 2,315 yards with 12 touchdowns and seven interceptions.

What’s impressive about Rivers isn’t just the fact that he’s thrown for at least 4,200 yards and 28 touchdowns in each of the last six seasons. It’s his durability. Rivers hasn’t missed a start in the last 13 and half seasons.

Will the Chargers let Rivers leave, though? He signed a four-year, $83.25-million deal in 2016 that included a $22.5 million signing bonus and an average salary of $20,812,500 per year. L.A. could simply slap the franchise tag on him next year at age 38 and spend a first-round pick in 2020 on his heir apparent to transition the Chargers to a new, younger quarterback in 2021.

The other enticing veteran is Teddy Bridgewater, who signed a one-year, $7.25 million contract with New Orleans, including a $6 million signing bonus, after the Saints acquired him in a trade with the New York Jets in 2018. Bridgewater was a former first-round pick by Minnesota in 2014 that completed 64.7 percent of his passes for 6,150 yards with 28 touchdowns and 22 interceptions with the Vikings before a devastating knee injury in practice wiped out his 2016 season and much of 2017 campaign as well.

Bridgewater, 27, had one start for the Saints last year, but went 5-0 as a starter this year when Drew Brees missed time due to a broken thumb. Bridgewater completed 67 percent of his passes for 1,488 yards with 10 touchdowns and three interceptions.

Saints QB Teddy Bridgewater and Bucs OLB Shaq Barrett
Saints QB Teddy Bridgewater and Bucs OLB Shaq Barrett – Photo by: Getty Images

The Louisville product has thrown 38 touchdowns and 25 picks in his career and has a 3.6 percent TD rate and 2.3 percent INT rate. This year’s TD rate in New Orleans was an improved 4.6 percent, along with an impressive 1.0 percent INT rate.

At age 28, Bridgewater will likely be one of the hottest commodities in free agency next March unless the Saints plan to have him serve as Brees’ eventual successor and can somehow squeeze Bridgewater under their salary cap. Yet Bridgewater might not want to wait until Brees retires and could be seeking a starting job elsewhere.

The New York Giants have already moved on to Daniel Jones, the team’s first-round pick this year, and that means the end of the Eli Manning era, as the two-time Super Bowl winner is scheduled to be an unrestricted free agent in 2020. The 38-year old Manning, whose cap value this year in New York is $23.2 million, has been a durable starter, missing just one game in the past 14 years prior to the 2019 season.

But it’s clear that Manning’s game has been in decline in recent years, evidenced by an 8-25 record over the past three seasons in New York. Manning has thrown for 362 touchdowns and 241 interceptions over his career, and has a career 4.5 percent TD rate and a 3.0 career INT rate.

Yet over the last 33 games dating back to the start of the 2017 season, Manning has thrown 42 touchdowns and 26 interceptions. While his TD rate fell to 3.4 percent, so did his INT rate was 2.1 percent. But at age 39 in 2020, how much gas would Manning have left in the tank?

The other veteran option could be Andy Dalton, who just got benched in Cincinnati. Dalton went 0-8 as a starter this year, but the 32-year old had a record of 68-58-2 with the Bengals.

Bengals QB Andy Dalton
Bengals QB Andy Dalton – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

Dalton has completed 62.2 percent of his passes and thrown 197 touchdowns and 112 interceptions in his career. While he’s not been one of the league’s most dynamic quarterbacks with just two 4,000-yard seasons in his nine years in the league, Dalton has been to three Pro Bowls, and has a career TD rate of 4.6 percent and a career INT rate of 2.6 percent.

Dalton is making $16.2 million this year, and is scheduled to make $17.7 million in 2020. The Bengals could release Dalton without any cap penalty and save a huge chunk of cap room next offseason.

As for Mariota, the Bucs passed him over once because of his lack of vocal leadership, laid back personality and lack of polish as a pocket passer and deep ball thrower. The fact that Jason Licht and Titans general manager Jon Robinson are good friends likely means that Robinson’s decision to move on from the injury-prone Mariota is an indication that the Bucs won’t be interested as long as Licht is calling the shots in Tampa Bay.

Other potential free agent quarterbacks include Tannehill, who will likely be targeted for a re-signing in Tennessee if he keeps winning, along with Washington’s 31-year old Case Keenum, a journeyman who has been on six different teams in the last seven years. Brees and New England’s Tom Brady are 41 and 43 years old, respectively, and have voidable years in their contracts in 2020, but it’s hard to see the Saints and the Patriots moving on from those QBs, who are still playing at a high level in the twilight of their careers.

Both of Tampa Bay’s backup quarterbacks, Blaine Gabbert and Ryan Griffin, are scheduled to be unresticted free agents next year, and one could return as a backup, but neither has shown the ability to be considered a starter for the Bucs.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston and head coach Bruce Arians
Bucs QB Jameis Winston and head coach Bruce Arians – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

Despite the success of rookie QB Gardner Minshew in Jacksonville, the Jaguars can’t part ways with 30-year old Nick Foles next year because he signed a four-year, $88 million contract that included a $25 million signing bonus this offseason. Jacksonville would take an $11.75 million cap hit in 2020 if it traded Foles away.

Whether it’s Rivers, Bridgewater, Manning or Dalton – or maybe Luck if he were to come out of retirement and want to play for Arians again – the Bucs will have some veteran options to turn to at quarterback if Winston can’t make his case for a long-term contract extension – or at least the franchise tag – with improved play down the stretch in 2019.

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Scott Reynolds is in his 24th year of covering the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as the vice president, publisher and senior Bucs beat writer for PewterReport.com. Author of the popular SR's Fab 5 column on Fridays, Reynolds oversees web development and forges marketing partnerships for PewterReport.com in addition to his editorial duties. A graduate of Kansas State University in 1995, Reynolds spent six years giving back to the community as the defensive line coach for his son's Pop Warner team, the South Pasco Predators. Reynolds can be reached at: [email protected]

64 COMMENTS

  1. The term QB whisper will be a cocktail party joke for years to come, Bruce Arians made mental mistakes at AZ that were well documented but ignored here in Tampa and by Pewter boys
    The roosters have now come home 2-5

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  2. I have to believe that Wilson has thrown more than 17 passes this year.

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    • The Seahawks are not not a typical NFL passing first offense. They are evenly balanced to date, with 250 passing attempts to 251 rushing attempts. They also don’t outscore their opponents by much, with only 208 points for vs. 196 points against. They aren’t a scoring machine.

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      • I was referring to the article where it says that Wilson has thrown 17 passes this year. Pretty sure he has more attempts than that.

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        • That’s touchdown passes, not passes. You left out a most important word.

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          • I didn’t, Scott did.

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  3. Reading that list of Free agent QBs made me feel sick to my stomach. If and when this team moves on from Winston the focus should be to find the future QB of this team in the draft, not another veteran QB with the goal just to win games. You have to draft a QB to be successful in this league. In the last 20 years how many QBs won a Super Bowl with a team that didn’t draft them? Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Nick Foles, and Brad Johnson. 2 of them are HOFs and the other 2 played with veteran teams. So unless we can get Rivers and add a lot of veterans not drafting a QB won’t work for this team. The salary cap helps teams with rookie QBs to build the rest of the roster. Look no further than the team we play Sunday. Went to back to back Super Bowls when Wilson was on his rookie deal.

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  4. Great critique, Scott. Arians definitely needs to be calling plays now to train Leftwich. More importantly his voice in Jameis helmet can help him relax and stay focused like Jameis was in beating the Rams and score 54 points. If he does that again this week he can beat Seattle and get back on track, regardless of how bad our Defense is.
    Jameis is a very emotional QB and when he commits a turnover he gets so upset he can’t focus and he tries to go into his Superman role which only results in more turnovers as we have seen three times now this season. The Rams game shows exactly how super Jameis can play when he stays focused and calm the entire game. We need that Jameis the rest of this year and we can still make the playoffs but it will take BA in his helmet each game to make that happen!

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  5. This team is toast and im for a complete rebuild. Im not for a veteran qb as thats jist a band aid if you move on from winston. I love that kid Barrow from lsu ,hes my favorite but hes rising up boards. This will probably be like every other year when we are like 1 pic away from who we want. But there are options and mariota isnt one of them.
    Problem is licht will still be making the picks which is risky at best. The dude clealry doesn’t understand building the trenches. This teams lines are sub par and it shows. Put a rookie behindbthis offensiveine and watch them flounder running for their life.
    As for our coaching staff, i think it was a huge mistake to let leftwich call plays in a year you need to evaluate jameis. 1st dows, barber up the middle every time. Leftwich is incredibly predictable. And what is their fettish with barber? I like the guy, but anyone with eyes can see rojo is a vaslty superior runner. Why do they keep trying to forve the ball to perriman? Who shouldve been cut by now. Or scotty miller? Yoi can fond pkays for these nobodies, but cant get a mismatch like howard going? And im not even going to get into the secondary, which is gar feom fixed and well probably waste picks on that position group again last year. And lets face it, devin white isnt playing like the hall of famer we were made to believe. Meanwhile josh allen has 7 sacks and is lighting it up for jacksonville. Again the tenches Licht!
    At this point im not even sure if Arians will be back next year and if not, fire licht, which they should anyways, and just start over. Tired of looking at mocks this early every year.

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    • Wow I am in 100% agreement with CGmaster, the first time in three years 100%

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  6. I think it’s time PR silenced the troll DumbAssBob for good.
    He adds nothing of value here unless you highly value ignorance and stupidity and god knows we get enough of that coming out of the White House.

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    • I see Dr down east Is spot on behind Winston Leftwhich Licht , does not like me speaking harsh about the situation, and since my veiws are 180 from his pro Winston views he wants me banned.

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    • Right or wrong, I think BOB is entitled to his opinion

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  7. The first priority for Glazers was to delay the official bust of Jameis Winston and to that, they hired Bruce Arians the QB whisperer and all the media and Pewter Boys planned playoffs, now we are at 2-5 three days away from 2-6 and everyone is blaming 10 different things.
    Back to basics
    Glazers run the team thru a puppet Jason Licht
    Glazer choice is “Jameis Winston” and Jason and Bruce need to make it work at all costs.
    So far QB whisper has not fixed a broken QB and now Jameis on track for 25 INT season and team about to self destruct.
    NFL needs to send a manager to save Glazers from themself,s

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  8. Enjoyed reading your Part I of BA and the play calling duties and couldn’t agree with you more.
    All pass routes have options and the fact Perriman had such an easy option to read and failed to do so midway through the season is inexcuseable. Like many fans, I’d like to see him go, now.
    I know he has a $4 million guaranteed contract but why give him the chance too cost the team any more wins.
    As I used to tell my ex company, “your accountants are always looking at how much money they are going to save but not how much it’s going to cost the company in future business.”
    As for your future QB and the analyis of the QB play, you always seem to leave out one important variable, the performance of the offensive line.
    For only one year had Winston had a average offensive line and not so oddly enough, it was also the last year we had a 1000 yard rusher.
    It was also the last year Logan Mankins played.
    So for four years Licht has only had to replace one player, an overage guard who was also very good.
    He has moved the chairs all over the deck of the Titantic, but has never drafted or signed one FA left guard. All of the other four players have remained the same.
    How amazingly inept is that.
    Now ask yourself out of all the QBs you mentioned how many of them would have even survived, let alone flourished with out offensive line in front of them.
    I can’t honestly say any of them would.

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  9. With Bunting and Dean at CB and Vernon or Edwards at slot CB and all playing man for man, and Adams and Whitehead at Safety our backfield will improve on Defense the more they play together with out wasting cap space on getting a veteran back there (we already got one veteran Safety, Darian Stewart, who isn’t good enough to start). With both Barret and PFF starting and putting big pressure on the opposing QB and our DC using some of his creative blitzes pressuring too our Defense will be fine as long as our DC stops playing zone at the end of games. With White back to be a spy to stop running QBs we should never go to zone again and pressure all game long. No way should we not resign Barret, PFF, and Suh next year!

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  10. It’s always refreshing to talk about change and the draft this early in the year. 🙄 I’ve said from the get go that I was never sold on Leftwich, especially in such a pivotal year concerning Winston. Anyone wanna bet that the first offensive play call will be a run up the middle with Barber? I hate when coaches are stubborn for their own good. There’s no way Barber should be starting and splitting with RoJo. His 3 yard average should tell you that. As far as Qb’s, hell no to Bridgewater. Yes he’s 5-0 this year, but their defense is outstanding as well as their oline and running game. You put him on this said and he’d be lucky to have two wins. Maybe a veteran like Rivers for one year to teach the rookie that we hopefully draft this year. It’s time for yet another make over on a team that can’t find an identity or get out of its own way. And why the hell is Perriman still in this team? I could do exactly what his bum ass is doing for half the cost.

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  11. QB Gardner Minshew 6th round pick
    2019 Passing
    STATS
    CMP ATT CMP% YDS AVG TD INT LNG RTG
    161 260 61.9 1,976 7.6 13 2 70 98.8

    A rookie with wide receivers I have never heard of!!!!!

    I am DONE with Winston….move on like a bad relationship.

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    • You forgot to mention minshews 9 fumbles. If youre going to paint a picture use all the stats. And minshew also has a vastly superior running game and defense than we do. No excuse for winstons turnovers, im not defnending those, but lets just use all the variables when comparing qbs.

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      • And YOU conveniently forgot to mention Winston’s 8 fumbles, along with his 12 INTs.

        Last I checked the math, 12 + 8 is bigger than 2 + 9.

        Not to mention that Winston leads the entire league in turnovers in the four and a half seasons since he entered the league in 2015 – 70 INTs and 46 fumbles.

        There is a reason why the entire NFL universe refers to Winston as “THE turnover machine”.

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        • I think everyone is overlooking the fact that there are not that many “Gardner Minshew’s” that get picked in the 6th round and actually have this kind of success and definitely it hardly ever translates to the long term.

          Winston has unfortunately run his course. It is time to make a change. Licht needs to go as well. I am not in favor of bringing in a re-tread QB when we really don’t have the core of a Team to say we are only a Game Managing QB away.

          Time for change….ugh

          Go Bucs

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        • Naples, where did I forget to mention Jameis fumbles? Did I not say , no excuses for his TURNOVERS? I would think that would include fumbles, but that’s common sense. Next time try reading my response instead of rushing to look like a tool. I am just stating that fumbles weren’t mentioned and it should if you’re looking at the complete picture. Comprehension is your friend clown try it.

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          • You did forget to tote up Winston’s fumbles. I may be getting older, but I can still read.

            Stop being such a tool, assclown.

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      • Vastly superior running game???? Or a more used running game? I think Jones is more dynamic than Fournette. They just stick to one back running the ball.

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  12. I remember all too well that very pleasant evening in San Diego when I looked up at that pale blue sky and pledged that I would never bitch about the Buc’s again if only they could get one more win. Several hours and a lot of Coor’s later after a 48-21 ass kicking of the Raiders I starred out the window of the airplane and thought there was no way this wasn’t going to be an annual event.Hence: the axiom “Be Careful what you wish for.”
    I don’t think any coach (not named Belichet) is capable of turning this team around in one year, Two would be exceptional and three is still a stretch. This is one of those teams that’s going to find ways to lose regardless of the quality of players or the record of the team they are playing. I honestly think you need to pick up a Brad Johnson prototype, give him a few good offensive weapons, and build the best kick-ass Defense possible. Of course you are going to have to modify your Defense to play flag football and not hit anyone. Lynch, Sapp, Rice, Barber, et.al would all be on terminal suspension in this era. To pull all this old man gibberish to a single thought, One it will be awhile before Tampa has a decent team, they have to let the rookies and core that they have gel for a few years. They need to give up on Winston, Licht, and plan to wave goodby to many of the coaches (including BA) they have onboard. Finally recognized that I jinxed them with my wish several years ago for which I Totally apologize.

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    • I was in beautiful San Diego that glorious night too Martini. I too thought it would continue. After the opening game in 2003 (a 17-0 defeat of the Eagles) I was convinced it would be back to back championships. Our excitement about the team was never higher.

      But now my Super Bowl XXXVII memorabilia is fading as fast as my aging memory. Now, as I get closer to “crossing the creek” as Culverhouse would say, sadly I am far less emotional about our team. Apathy grows with each disappointing loss.

      I recall the Seinfeld episode when Jerry and Elaine were talking about their past sex life and saying, “I remember it was a fun thing”. Guess that’s all we have now. Que Bob Hope, “Thanks for the Memories”.

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      • Thanks for the reply scubog. Now days instead of trying to play consultant and formulate schemes to Win I enjoy the Buc’s Good plays, Cuss a little on the bad ones but always realize the score is just two arbitrary numbers that no longer dictate my love of the sport. By the way I seldom see anything from Macabee. Really miss his contributions. Go Buc’s.

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  13. I don’t want the QB of the future in next year’s draft. I want an average QB who doesn’t turn over the ball and who can work with the best receivers and tight ends in the NFL. The QB of the future can come later.
    I want the Bucs to focus on the O-line and D-line. Draft for the trenches, because whoever we get as QB won’t matter if that person isn’t protected.
    I’d keep Winston and give him a one year prove it contract and let him know in no uncertain terms that he’ll be relegated to backup as soon as he screws up. Then Dalton or whoever can lead the team.

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    • Well, if we don’t draft a future franchise quarterback, and then if we manage to sign a veteran he’s going to be way more expensive than a drafted player, and then he won’t necessarily play any better. Which constricts the quality of other players with which to improve both our offense and defense.

      Much better to draft the QB – then if he doesn’t work out, no big loss, no massive dead money to pay out. And then if he DOES prove out, we’ll have to pay him, but at least then he’s a proven commodity and not a roll of the dice for a very pricey contract.

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    • A couple of things. 1. If you are close to winning, a trade for a veteran isn’t a bad thing. But we aren’t. Trading Barrett, who may be a part of our future, that would be stupid. But if we could have gotten a 5th rounder for Suh? No matter how good you true Suh believers think he is, what would he do for this team? Take us from 5-11 to 6-10? Is that the goal? The Dolphins know who they are. A bad team. Unfortunately, we keep deluding ourselves. No one wants a losing record, myself included, but we are who we are. And there isn’t a lot of young talent on this team. 2. I think Arians was a good coach, but I think a lot of Bucs fans deluded themselves by thinking he was a great coach. 3. This draft could have been an amazing draft, and somehow we came out with a lot of mediocrity. White may turn out to be a great middle line backer….But Allen already is the 2nd best player in this draft, and at a premium position. I loved Mike Singletary, but there isn’t a single GM out there who drafts Singletary over LT. Oh, sorry. I guess there is 1.

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  14. While it is possible that the Bucs could get their long-denied “franchise quarterback” from a free agent, or even a trade, it seems more likely they’ll have to sign a pretty good quarterback to a fairly short term deal, only 1 or 2 seasons, and draft a QB with a relatively high first round pick. It is clear that a quality personnel man – i.e., NOT Jason Licht – does not have to draft no. 1 overall to get a very good quarterback in the first round. Not when you look at the last crop of QBs since 2016 where mid first rounders are outperforming the no. 1 and 2 picks routinely. And the best QB is not necessarily the same player that the media gushes about all pre-draft season long every year. I don’t recall that many thought Mahomes was Hall of Fame material when he was taken in the middle of the first round. Same with Watson, Garropolo, and Jackson, all of whom along with Mahomes are in the top tier of quarterbacks this season so far.

    But, first things first – fire Licht and hire a much better personnel man than he has turned out to be … and then among his first tests is to draft the Bucs a future franchise quarterback, and a quality left tackle, and get us some better talent in the defensive secondary.

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  15. While I believe we got “Arians Light” this time around, I don’t believe it would matter if Winston had Arians screaming at him. That worked to some extent with him at FSU with Jimbo but there was so much talent on the 2013 FSU team and even the 2014 FSU team, that it covered up a lot of Winston’s flaws.

    The 2013 team had an amazing offensive line and the defense put a chunk of guys into the pros.
    The 2014 season is when Jameis would dig holes early with turnovers (like he’s done in 5 seasons in Tampa) but the defensive talent and lower competition allowed him to come back most times to win.

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  16. A sobering article, Scott… Excellent work. I saw a win% graphic of every team in the NFL recently and as the bars shortened, the last one was significantly shorter than all the rest. How can a franchise be so horrible for so many decades? Does Ray Jay sit on an ancient burial mound? Are we cursed by a fan denied access to the game with his pet goat? One thing is for sure; if you’re a Bucs fan…you are the real deal. Most Steelers and Cheatriots fans wouldn’t stick around for this. Hats off to you guys for that anyways.

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  17. Not trying to defend Winston too much here, but comparing him to the “elite” QBs is probably a dumb baseline to start at. Those guys aren’t just elite, they’re generational, 1st ballot HOF QBs. If that’s the bench mark, for a QB, we may be waiting…well, forever. You have to get insanely lucky to get a guy like that…and put them in a perfect situation for their development. We absolutely did not provide that for Jameis during his tenure here. We couldn’t provide an OL to protect him. We gave him a below average (to plain bad) coaching staff. A defense who bled points, forcing all the pressure on his shoulders. It was a bad situation from the start. Those QBs all landed in situations that facilitated their development. I’d be fine with just Matt Stafford level play from Jameis…which is essentially everything he’s doing now minus about 1/3rd of the turnovers.

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    • Well, let’s get real here. A no. 1 overall pick in any draft is SUPPOSED TO BE A GENERATIONAL HALL OF FAME TALENT. That’s the expectation. Anything less is a bust. And Winston is not just less than that, he is a mediocre player.

      We didn’t pick him 24th like Aaron Rodgers, or 32nd like Drew Brees, or even 10th overall like Patrick Mahomes – the reigning league MVP in only his second year of play. Winston was picked no. 1 overall.

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      • The choices were Mariotta and Winston. We made the best choice but we have not built a good team around him.

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  18. OMG look who was throwing the football when BA said the D backfield was fixed. As far as OJ and Cam not being utilized in the game plan, this is a big mistake. Miller is practice S. material and Perriman is just BAD.

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  19. You are correct SR, Leftwich was given play calling way too early.

    Pass on the all the vet QBs, unless you can get Rivers. And unless you get Tua or Burrow, no QB in 2020 is worth drafting to replace Winston.

    With an improved OL and BA calling plays, I still would have faith in Winston in 2020 and beyond.

    You’re also correct on Winston needing a screamer in his face. Jimbo was that at FSU. Lovie, Dirk and Byron are not that, not even close. Winston needs the tough coaching.

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  20. I’m just saddened that this professional team can’t do simple things right. Run routes correctly. Start motion at the right time. Play correct technique as a DB on the goal line. It’s the same story year after year. Good teams do the little things right. Bad ones don’t. Why do I bring this up. It leads to interceptions, fumbles, poor pass defense.

    I’m sorry to disagree with Lefty, but I’m not seeing the improvement at all. I just keep seeing the same dumb mistakes all over the field. What to do at QB is a trick bag because based off of what I’m seeing I don’t trust the GM, the coaching staff, or the players, so is it really going to matter who QBs this team next year?
    I’m really hoping to see this team play a fundamentally sound 4 quarters of football. Just one game so I can have some hope in somebody; that the players we have are improving, the coaches know what the actually doing, that Licht has actually gotten some quality players in the draft. Right now, I’m doubting all of it.

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  21. This team has some good young pieces to build around, but no architect to do the building.

    Mike Evans – Chris Godwin – OJ Howard – Ali Marpet – Ronald Jones…that’s a solid young foundation on offense. Even add in Alex Cappa as a guy developing at a good pace.

    Vita Vea – Shaq Barrett (if we can re-sign him) – Carl Nassib (if we can re-sign him) – Devin White. Even add in Nelson as a guy with some promise, and Whitehead as a guy that has flashed some ability.

    But all it is is a foundation…that alone will not be enough to win anything. It is missing (at a minimum) key ingredients in a QB, LT, and CB1. That’s only 3 positions but they happen to be among the most critical 3 positions on a team…whiffing on our QB and CB1 in the top third of the 1st round was a devastating mistake we likely can’t recover from. Ignoring LT – or perhaps it was hoping that the LT we had would develop against all odds – was inexcusable.

    We need to re-build….but finding 3 key players isn’t going to happen overnight. Let’s hope we finally get one in the 2020 draft with our again top-10 pick.

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  22. Fab 1:
    Though I agree that Arians not calling the offense has produced failure I am not sure Bruce had a choice. I understand his health problems center around his heart. He may not be able to endure the stress that play calling plus the overseer responsibilities require during the game.

    The compromise he made by giving the play calling duties to his OC have not produced results. The damage may be irreversible for this season. Winston’s career has not been strikingly salvaged either.

    When y’all get to this age you will understand. The Glazers had to hope Arians overall career experience would allow him to succeed here under different plans than he might have brought if he was even ten years younger.

    Basically, I am affirming everything you have said, Scott. I agree with your overall assessment.
    ___________________
    Go Bucs!!!

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  23. Scott, if you have a stupid kid is yelling at him going to make him smarter? If he doesn’t pay attention, and keeps making the same mistakes over, and over is yelling at him, or even spanking him going to change that? Your a parent, does yelling at your kids do any good, or cause more harm? Winston is what he is, the same as he’s been since college, a bonehead with a knack for turning the ball over. His success in college had more to do with the talent around him. On an even playing field in the pros, his turnover problems loom a lot larger since more games are lost do to turnovers, then won by racking up meaningless garbage yards. As far as play calling, does it matter much who calls the plays if the plays themselves suck? It doesn’t make sense Arains would let this team keep losing if he thought he could call a better game. This is his offense, his play book, I think the game has passed the old man by. I see more teams playing college concepts, RPO’s, quick passes to play makers. Mean while Bruce’s offense relies on the long ball, something JW has never been good at. Watching Kyle Murray last night, even in a loss put up good numbers with no turnovers. Bringing in a loser vet isn’t going to change the Buc fortunes, drafting the right QB can. But he has to be in a system that’s tailored for him. Like, Murray, like Watson, like Lamar Jackson. Those QB’s have coaches that have built around their strengths, not their weaknesses. I’d take Jalen Hurts with my first pick, if a Burrow wasn’t to be had. I wouldn’t risk waiting till the second round. The money you’d save not paying Winston can get you a good vet RT. Take a QB #1, draft trenches the rest of the way. All hope is lost if Licht, and Winston are retained.

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  24. Oh, and could you media guys quit saying Jameis tries to be Superman? Superman comes to the rescue. Jameis is more like Lois Lane, always doing something stupid that gets her in trouble.

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  25. I’m interested to see what articles will be written and what the general tone will be if we beat the Seahawks and the Cardinals next on schedule. GO BUCS!

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  26. Mistakes and penalties are the primary reason for the lousy record. Better talent would help but better execution would help more. IMO
    As to QB/ i give the names Doug Williams, Steve Young,Trent Dilfer and Vinny Testerverde

    Three of those went on to win Super Bowls all prospered elsewhere. That remains a very disturbing fact.
    5th time the charm or the same result? If you keep making the same wrong decisions when do you decide you’re making bad decisions when it comes to getting rid of GOOD QB’S?

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  27. We have a Veteran QB on the roster. If u didn’t think he could win a couple of games in relief due to an injury why would u sign him? No Veteran QBs please! We more than likely will have a top 10 pick this next draft. If there is a young QB there u like then make that pick. Cheaper to draft ur future QB and make the O-Line upgrades around him. I see plenty of 1st through 3rd year QBs making an impact with their teams. Draft the kid out of LSU and move on. It’s preferable to the insanity of what we now have. A change of scenery benefits both parties especially if ur talking about a one year QB salary in the neighborhood of $25 mil? I’m just saying…

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  28. Go with Griffin for the rest of the Season. Make ROJO the starting RB. Utilize OJ Howard. We still have a chance not to be in the top 10 draft picks next year. BA needs to start calling the plays if he isn’t already. And Please, besides getting a new starter at QB next year, draft some OL high in the draft.

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  29. It pisses me off knowing that Arians is a great play caller and yet he still refuses to call the plays for us. We wanted to bring him here to help us win and develop Winston, but instead..he’s sitting there worried about developing Byron leftwich as a coach. Quit wasting our time and help our damn team…and why the hell is perriman still on our roster?!

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    • This is the best comment of the Day! Arians has been a waste of time.

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  30. Scott; so you believe Licht has done okay as GM?

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  31. Please no, not Andy Dalton.

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  32. Hey Scott I picked this up from another site that published the statement below from Seattle Fan Dr. Zag:

    Lol every year it never fails

    We have only 1 starter on our O line healthy. New center, 2 new guards, new tight end and not Sure if Brown will play (LT) :joy:

    Posted by Dr. Zag on Oct 31, 2019 | 9:34 PM reply

    He also went on to comment their new Center gets blown up too much and he just hopes their run game will go well so they can get play action deep to Legget and their other fast receiver.

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  33. I know I’m gonna get laughed out of the building for this, but reading successful QB play entails making plays and not turning the ball over, and…I swear I thought of Tebow. Also reading how much Lamar Jackson’s offense is stressing the league in Sports Illustrated yesterday, and I thought of Tebow. I only bring him up because to me Winston is the classic “oh, he’ll figure it out, he’s a pro-level quarterback”. Bruce Arians once believed in Carson Palmer, who was also a pro-level quarterback, and in 181 starts he had the same amount of playoffs wins as Tebow had in 16. Arians coached Peyton Manning, who won a second Super Bowl succeeding Tebow with worse stats that final year than Tebow EVER put up. There’s just a certain arrogance to football coaching that annoys me and IMO sunk Tebow, when yeah…make plays, and don’t turn the ball over.

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    • PS…Tebow…4.7 TD rate, 2.5 INT rate, 8-6 record on a team with the 24th ranked D and the 2nd worst overall record the year before he took them to the playoffs and only lost on the road to Belichick. Never played again. But thank god we figured out Winston needs 5 years of losing that he may not be the answer.

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  34. Licht should’ve claimed Josh Gordon off waivers. He’s way better than anyone on the roster behind Evans and Godwin. Plus his contract was only around $2 million/yr which would’ve only cost $1 million with half the season gone. He also should’ve claimed Kareem Hunt of of waivers last year. That would’ve given us a Pro Bowl RB one rookie deal 2nd rd pick deal without having to give up a damn thing! Instead Cleveland signed him in February to a 1yr $1 million deal that will be significantly less to his 8 game suspension.

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  35. We have the folks who defend Jameis Winston no matter what he does and seek blame elsewhere, people who see the flaws, the talent and hope for the best and those who simply want to move on and actually seem to want Winston to fail.

    Me, I’ve been in that the first and middle group for the past five loooooooooooong years. For much of his time under center I would discount the INT’s and fumbles for which someone else could be named the culprit. Then it dawned on me. Don’t QB’s like Brady, Rodgers, Brees and virtually all other signal callers have times when their O-line didn’t block sufficiently, when the receiver didn’t run the route properly, when the defense can’t hold the lead, when the ball takes an unfortunate bounce, when the kicker fails, when the play-call was ineffective or when the defender just makes a great play? Yet no current QB has the number of turnovers as #3. Like the guy who has been married 5 times and each time blaming the divorce on his psycho ex wife; at some point even his closest friends realize…………it’s not them…..it’s you.

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  36. Scubog I hear you and not making excuses I just do not believe in any way another WB would fared better on this team especially this year. Yes other teams have moments of bad protection but not like Bucs. I watch lot football and just don’t see it.

    Arians should be caking plays agree. I don’t know though that with this O line would make huge difference.

    The veteran QB list is all garbage and doing any be better than Winston. Rivers is only one at this point that doesn’t suck and is too old.
    Bridgewater would suck on this team imo. Hes a game manager on super bowl team. He would be hurt or worse with Bucs.

    They should replace Dotson in frost RD. Tired of shit so lone play. Go Get via trade or whatever a veteran CB. Tag Winston one more year.
    Maybe draft someone like Jalen in 2nd or 3rd rd as insurance and let him battle Winston in pre season. It doesn’t require blowing up IMO.

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  37. Liquidmuse3 that’s stupid comparison. Tebow never threw the damn ball bro! Handed it off or ran or threw dink and dunk shit. Winston most games has to throw over 50 times.

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  38. Arian’s top 3 biggest mistakes
    1. Standing pat with our current O line.
    2. Leftwich being the play caller
    3. Keeping VHIII instead of bringing in veteran leadership and leaving the secondary to 1st and second year players in a complicated defensive scheme that changes week to week.

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  39. Fredster, you never watched the games Tebo played in Denver or you would know Tebo was very accurate throwing the deep pass and when he whipped the former Super Bowl Pittsburg Team in his first game taking the Broncos to the playoffs he won that game with long throws!

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  40. And many years ago I posted a recommendation here that the Bucs sign Tebow as their backup QB. If they had taken my advice he would have easily outplayed Glennon and we would not have needed to waste a first round pick for Jameis. Likely our HC would have known that too but wanted Glennon to become our Franchise QB. What a Maroon.

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  41. The issue at QB is that NO QB is gonna be successful if the Oline isn’t straightened out. Marpet, Jensen and Cappa are holding it down in the middle but with Smith being average and Dotson being at the end of his career and absolutely no depth, Winston has the pocket collapsing every snap. Even when the Oline can hold long enough you know it’s like a beaten dog where he is scared it’s gonna collapse. The fact stands that Winston completely has the ability to be a franchise QB, but the turnovers are his cancer. A lot of it is the conditions around him and the problem is until those problems are completely replaced, not just improved, the feeling will always be there and never be changed. That won’t change just by putting another QB back there. We really needed to spend our 1st round pick on an Olineman this year but if we are gonna bring in a QB I’m Not sure about a Veteran one that we will just need to replace next year. I do think we could bring in someone like Teddy Bridgewater and then see what QBs are available when we Draft next year and let him develop, but to just bring in an old Vet and have no Future plan would be a mistake. Next year we have to bring in a Veteran CB to lead the Secondary into recovery and Draft all the Oline we can. Great Left Tackles just aren’t developed in College anymore apparently so Drafting a Stud RT and moving him to LT when Smiths contract is up would be good but if we could grab a Stud LT in the Draft or elsewhere then move Smith to RT (salary doesn’t matter for his final year) then Draft his replacement the next year. Then with some decent Depth we could have some great Oline years before Jensen and Marpet get too old.

    This year has been no different than the rest, we could just as easily be 5-2 as we are 2-5. Arians inherited this team as is and had limited room to improve it. I wouldn’t give up on him until he has the room he needs to make his improvements next year. This year showed him what he has and the real change will come next year. Leftwich and the Offense needed a year to get used to the new system as well. As much as we all wanna win now that rarely happens in the first year. Of course it has happened before but it doesn’t more often than it does.

    We will find out a lot from the last half of this season to know where we are going in the future. The fact remains that we can still win any game that everyone shows up to play in, as much as some may wanna argue that it’s completely true. The winning potential is there, it just has to be realized.

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  42. This is like Winston Rookie year all over I mean wouldn’t you expect most QBs who played in the Same System the Entire Career an there 1st year in a new system might struggle or have some mistakes I wish BA would have got here 1 year earlier so Winston would still have 1 year left on Contract I mean this Kid can play let this Offense Gel an learn BAs Offense Winston will be Bucs QB a long time coaches see his greatness

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  43. Give Arians time. Jameis just makes too many mistakes. I think that Jameis knows that their defense sucks so he tries too much. His receivers are also just too good. Jameis falls into his Superman mode. Josh Freeman same issue. Where can the Buccaneers get a veteran quarterback who plays within their without too many turnovers? Drafting a rookie maybe necessary but they need just an average QB who allows his team to their ability. The Buccaneers have just too much talent to be 2-5. Licht needs to be replaced. They have endless cap space next year, so a quick turnaround is very possible.

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