FAB 3. Drafting A Franchise QB Is Incredibly Difficult

Tampa Bay has the dubious distinction of never signing a quarterback it has drafted to a second contract. I thought for sure that would come to end with Jameis Winston, who was the first overall pick in the 2015 NFL Draft.

Unfortunately, that streak, which is over four decades long, could continue unless somehow Winston makes it back on the field this year and somehow stops becoming a turnover machine. Or this regime continues to have blind faith that he can limit the amount of interceptions and fumbles in the near future.

The first rule in football is “don’t beat yourself,” and as I pointed out in my 2-Point Conversion column after Sunday’s 37-34 loss at Cincinnati where Winston threw four interceptions, including a pick-six, you can add his name to the list of Buc-killing quarterbacks like Brett Favre, Jake Delhomme and Drew Brees.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston - Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR
Bucs QB Jameis Winston – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

It’s true that Winston’s penchant for untimely turnovers have hurt the Bucs more than his touchdowns have helped, evidenced by his 19-29 record as a starter. I just don’t know if he’s going to be able to get the turnovers out of his system to the point where Tampa Bay consistently win. Consider that Winston has 11 turnovers (10 interceptions and one fumble), and that is more than all three other NFC South quarterbacks combined (eight).

Some Bucs fans have tunnel vision on their team, but finding a franchise quarterback is incredibly difficult. I knew it was hard before diving into my research this week, but I’ve actually come to grips with the fact that luck has to be a big part of it because there are so many variables, such as the team they go to, the environment of the locker room, the system they play in, the weapons they have to work with, how fast they are forced into the starting lineup, the willingness of a veteran QB on the roster to mentor them, how good the QB coach is, how patient the front office/coaching staff/ownership is, how many and fame affect them, how the handle the pressure of the local media and so much more.

I took a look at all of the quarterbacks drafted in the league since 2009, which is the last time Tampa Bay used a first-round pick on a quarterback with Josh Freeman. What is the average number of quarterbacks drafted in a given year?

Do you know?

Would it surprise you if I said it was 11?

Yes, there have been 11 quarterbacks taken in the draft each year on average over the past 10 years.

From 2009-17 there have been 105 quarterbacks that have been drafted into the NFL. Do you know how many of those QBs are starters today?

Seventeen.

They include Detroit’s Matthew Stafford, Carolina’s Cam Newton, Cincinnati’s Andy Dalton, Indianapolis’ Andrew Luck, Seattle’s Russell Wilson, Minnesota’s Kirk Cousins, Jacksonville’s Blake Bortles, Oakland’s Derek Carr, San Francisco’s Jimmy Garoppolo, Winston, Tennessee’s Marcus Mariota, Los Angeles’ Jared Goff, Philadelphia’s Carson Wentz, Dallas’ Dak Prescott, Chicago’s Mitchell Trubisky, Kansas City’s Patrick Mahomes and Houston’s Deshaun Watson.

But is it really 17?

Knowing what you know about those quarterbacks, would you choose to start a team with any one of them? No.

Jaguars QB Blake Bortles- Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR
Jaguars QB Blake Bortles- Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

Let’s eliminate a few. Bortles is a no-go, right? Are you sold on Winston or Mariota right now? Do you believe in the oft-injured Tannehill? Is Trubisky the real deal? Would you bet that Garoppolo is for real with such a small sample size? Would you want Stafford, who has been to one Pro Bowl and is 0-3 in the playoffs over the last 10 years as your franchise quarterback over any of the other QBs?

So there are maybe 11 or 12 really good quarterbacks that have come out over the last nine years. That’s an average of one real “franchise QB” coming out per year.

I’m not including the 2018 draft class that features Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen and Josh Rosen because those first-rounders are all forced into the starting lineup because they are on bad teams and we don’t have a large enough sample size to determine if they are on the path to Franchiseville or Bust Town.

That’s what bad teams do. They play first-round quarterbacks in their first year. Stafford, Sanchez and Freeman all played in 2009. It didn’t mean that all of them wound up being good.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston and Titans QB Marcus Mariota - Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR
Bucs QB Jameis Winston and Titans QB Marcus Mariota – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

Take a look at all of the QB draft classes from 2009. I’ve listed the amount of quarterbacks that were drafted that year as well as the more notable names. In some years, such as 2010, 2013 – and possibly 2015 depending on how well Winston and Mariota fare – there is a complete wipeout with none of those quarterbacks amounted to anything.

And just because teams decided to pay a king’s ransom to Bradford or Glennon doesn’t mean that those guys warranted it. Bradford has been one of the biggest thieves in NFL history.

2009 (11 QBs): Matthew Stafford (1), Mark Sanchez (1), Josh Freeman (1), Pat White (2)

2010 (14 QBs): Bradford (1), Tebow (1), Colt McCoy (3)

2011 (12 QBs): Cam Newton (1), Jake Locker (1), Blaine Gabbert (1), Christian Ponder (1), Andy Dalton (2), Colin Kaepernick (2), Ryan Mallett (3), Tyrod Taylor (6)

2012 (11 QBs): Andrew Luck (1), Robert Griffin III (1), Ryan Tannehill (1), Brandon Weeden (1), Brock Osweiler (2), Russell Wilson (3), Nick Foles (3), Kirk Cousins (4)

2013 (11 QBs): EJ Manuel (1), Geno Smith (2), Mike Glennon (3), Matt Barkley (3), Ryan Nassib (4), Landry Jones (4)

2014 (14 QBs): Blake Bortles (1), Johnny Manziel (1), Teddy Bridgewater (1), Derek Carr (2), Jimmy Garoppolo (2)

2015 (7 QBs): Jameis Winston (1), Marcus Mariota (1), Garrett Grayson (3), Sean Mannion (3), Bryce Petty (4), Brett Hundley (5), Trevor Siemian (7)

2016 (15 QBs): Jared Goff (1), Carson Wentz (1), Paxton Lynch (1), Christian Hackenberg (2), Jacoby Brissett (3), Cody Kessler (3), Dak Prescott (4)

2017 (10 QBs): Mitchell Trubisky (1), Patrick Mahomes (1), Deshaun Watson (1), DeShone Kizer (2), Davis Webb (3), C.J. Beathard (3), Nathan Peterman (5)

The 2009 draft featured 11 drafted quarterbacks and produced just one decent one in Stafford, who has been to one Pro Bowl and has led a team that has missed the playoffs in seven of the last 10 years, in addition to failed first-rounders Sanchez and Freeman. White was selected in the second round. That’s it.

Fourteen QBs were drafted in 2010, and the first round consisted of the oft-injured Bradford, who is one of the biggest thieves in NFL history considering the tens of millions he has received for being hurt and not producing wins, in addition to fellow first-rounder Tebow and third-round pick McCoy. This entire QB draft class fizzled.

Of the 12 signal callers that were drafted in 2011, Newton, the first overall pick, and Dalton, a second-rounder, are the only hits. Gabbert and Ponder were overdrafted and failed first-rounders, while the NFL thinks Kaepernick isn’t good enough to start, and Taylor, a sixth-rounder, has become an NFL journeyman and part-time starter.

Bucs QB Mike Glennon - Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR
Bucs QB Mike Glennon – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

In 2013, 11 quarterbacks were drafted and the biggest names are the failed first-rounder in Manuel, who had no business being drafted that high, second-rounder in Smith and third-rounder in Glennon. This QB draft class bombed.

The 2014 draft saw 14 quarterbacks get selected with Bortles, Manziel, who was an immediate bust, and Bridgewater go in the first round, with Carr and Garoppolo being drafted in the second round. Carr has been the most successful thus far in the league, but he could be on his way out in Oakland under new head coach Jon Gruden. The jury is still out on Bridgewater.

The 2015 QB class only had seven quarterbacks get drafted, and was headlined by Winston and Mariota as the lone first-rounders. Neither has lived up to his draft billing. The next QB drafted was Grayson in the third round. Mannion, Petty, Brett Hundley and Siemian were Day 3 selections and have done little in the NFL.

The following year’s QB crop was much better as 15 quarterbacks were taken in 2016 led by Goff and Wentz, who went first and second overall and are excelling. Lynch, a former first-round pick, flamed out in Denver and is currently unemployed. Hackenberg, Brissett and Kessler are all backups with only Brissett having any limited success to brag about.

The 2017 draft class saw 10 QBs get selected and looks to be quite promising with Trubisky, Mahomes and Watson living up to their first-round billing thus far. Kizer was a second-round pick, who has bounced around the league, and Webb, Beathard and Peterman are the only other names worth knowing and none has distinguished himself as a future starter.

There’s a reason why teams like the Giants hold on to veteran quarterbacks like Eli Manning for as long as they can. They’re afraid it will take several years and several drafts to find the next Pro Bowl-caliber franchise quarterback.

Bucs QB Jameis Winston and GM Jason Licht - Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR
Bucs QB Jameis Winston and GM Jason Licht – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

That fear may also be what keeps Winston in Tampa Bay for one more year under his fifth-year option as a starter or as the backup. The Bucs may need one more year of evaluation before cutting him loose or signing him to a long-term contract extension.

Look at some of the worst teams in football outside of Tampa Bay. Buffalo had 11 years of Jim Kelly, and then has started nearly 20 different quarterbacks over the last 22 years since Kelly retired. The Bills have spent three first-round draft picks on J.P. Losman (2004), Manuel (2013) and Allen (2018) over the last two decades.

The Titans are in the same boat. Since Steve McNair last played in 2005, Tennessee has drafted Vince Young (2006), Jake Locker (2012) and Mariota (2015) in the first round.

How about the New York Jets? After several years with former first-round pick Chad Pennington (2002), the Jets have drafted Sanchez (2009) in the first round, Geno Smith (2013) in the second round, and Darnold, who was this year’s first-round pick. Darnold becomes the Jets’ sixth starting quarterback in the last seven years.

No franchise has struggled more than Cleveland. After having eight years of Brian Sipe (76-83) and seven years of Bernie Kosar (85-91), the Browns have had 17 different leading passers over the last 24 years. Since drafting Tim Couch with the first overall pick in 1999, Cleveland has spent a first-round picks on Brady Quinn (2007), Weeden (2012), Manziel (2014) and Mayfield (2018) – not to mention using a second-round pick on DeShone Kizer (2017) and third-round picks on Colt McCoy (2010) and Cody Kessler (2016), who all started for the Browns at some point. That’s seven premium picks used on quarterbacks since 2007.

Tampa Bay’s quarterback struggles have been well documented on PewterReport.com and elsewhere. Yet for every Doug Williams, Steve Young and Dilfer that have gone on to win a Super Bowl elsewhere, there is a Craig Erickson, a Casey Weldon, a Shaun King, a Chris Simms, a Freeman and a Glennon that haven’t. If the Bucs give up on Winston I’m not sure which category he would fall in, but the recent evidence suggests the latter.

Ex-Bucs QB Josh Freeman - Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR
Ex-Bucs QB Josh Freeman – Photo by: Cliff Welch/PR

As was the case in 2015 when the Bucs needed a quarterback and selected Winston, and will be the case next year, a general manager is beholden to the available QBs in a given draft class. There is no “create a prospect” scenario in real life like there is when playing in the franchise mode in Madden.

That’s where luck has to come into play. Is one of the QBs that come out in a draft class going to be successful – because history suggests only one out of 11 will.

By the way, the 2019 NFL Draft class looks weak at quarterback with maybe one or two legitimate first-round prospects – and none truly worthy of a top 10 pick. That, and where the Bucs wind up picking in the first round could certainly influence what Tampa Bay does with Winston moving forward.

Winston may be heading towards being a bust, but there are certainly no guarantees that the Bucs will be able to draft a better quarterback in 2019 or beyond. It’s really difficult for any team to find a franchise quarterback.

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Scott Reynolds is in his 25th year of covering the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as the vice president, publisher and senior Bucs beat writer for PewterReport.com. Author of the popular SR's Fab 5 column on Fridays, Reynolds oversees web development and forges marketing partnerships for PewterReport.com in addition to his editorial duties. A graduate of Kansas State University in 1995, Reynolds spent six years giving back to the community as the defensive line coach for his sons' Pop Warner team, the South Pasco Predators. Reynolds can be reached at: sr@pewterreport.com
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tpeluso

It’s not fair to lump Bridgewater in with Ponder. By most or all objective evidence, Bridgewater was on his way to being (at worst) an average-to-above-average starter when he suffered a devastating injury that was nobody’s fault. And by the time he was healthy enough to play again, Case Keenum had created a situation where uncertainty at QB was not something the Vikings could afford after having a career year and taking Minnesota to within one game of the Super Bowl. If Minnesota had been middle of the road last year, they might very well have rolled with Bridgewater and… Read more »

Brandonges

What about promoting Monken to Head Coach? I get that the same strategy didn’t really work out with Koetter, but Todd Monken seems to be the main person responsible for any success this year in Tampa. Get a Defensive Coordinator who runs a concept relevant to this decade and this might be a decent team.

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EricNV

I like Monken right where he is now.

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Brandonges

Well, we’re going to lose him once everyone gets fired in the offseason. I guess that’s what I was getting at.

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alan skelly

Caption for above photo

Licht”Picked my company car, an AMC Gremlin. It was no good so I had to trade it in for a Chevette. That was no good so I had to thumb a ride to the dry cleaners to pick up my suit after beating them Browns.

Koetter” Pick…. Trade….Whaaaat?

Licht” Yeah them Browns sure are a mess.

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BucWild02

Great Fab 5 Scott.

While I think the psychology and sheer number of coaches/mentors/family/lawyers in Winston’s ear is interesting, I personally believe it has little to do with his execution. He has continued to make the same mistakes with his reads. He has continued to make the same mistakes with ball security. Every time he scrambles and dives for the end zone or a first down, he loses the ball. Every time.

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Mannyknowsit

This is a win now league and a fantasy fan base. I really do like this article and agree with most of it, but can the fans wait for this to come to fruition? Will Winston be ok on the bench for a year? And get paid $21 million??? I really thought Winston was ready to take the reigns but after last week and watching turnover replays, disgusting. So happy to have this offense and hope Fitz can produce a play off birth …GM Licht definitely try to get something for McCoy! OFF TOPIC does anyone see what Gruden is… Read more »

MizzBucsFan24

As a diehard Bucs fan all I what is for the team to win. I’m tired of the losing and coaching changes. If Fitz can lean this team to playoffs great. Then explore trading Winston in the off-season and build a long term plan for the QB position. But if we fall out of playoff contention Winston must start and get thrown back into the fire. We have to know 100% that it can’t work even if that means him playing next year with a new coach. I know it’s not a popular idea but what choice do we have?… Read more »

tpeluso

Exactly why Jameis needed to go back in after the bye no matter what happened, and exactly why he needs to go back in whenever Fitz falters. Fitz has no shot of being the future of this team; Jameis still does even if that shot is getting longer by the week.

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Naplesfan

You are ignoring the fact that if Winston is put back in and gets injured (and therefore untradeable) the Bucs are on the hook for his entire 2019 salary at almost $21M. Winston getting injured is more likely than not – remember he missed several games last year for that reason. With him dropping back and passing 50+ times a game, it is in fact highly likely he’ll take lots more sacks and get injured, and then the Bucs are screwed. The only smart thing to do is inactivate Winston, not let him play or practice, and try to trade… Read more »

tpeluso

You’re right that the Bucs would get no takers and be forced to cut him. Which is exactly why inactivating him is utterly moronic – by doing that, you’re telegraphing that you’re giving up on him, which equals giving up any hope on having constancy at the QB position for the next few years. (Fitz is too old and too inconsistent to be relied on for anything beyond this season, period.) The REAL smart thing to do would have been NOT to exercise his option back in April in the first place when the threat of a suspension for the… Read more »

BucWild02

Blake Bortles got extended because of injury in his 4th year. Jags were on the hook for his 5th year salary becasue he couldn’t pass the end of season physical. To offset the huge 5th year cap number, they signed him to a 2 year extension to lessen the per year hit. Thats how they got stuck with Bortles. RGIII got a concussion in his 4th year. Draft classmate Kirk Cousins came in and lit it up. RGIII was inactivate the rest of his 4th year so the Redskins wouldnt be stuck picking up his expensive 5th year option. RGIII… Read more »

BucWild02

Mizz Lady…The Bucs are not going to the playoffs this year. They will be lucky to win 8 total games. Their remaining games: at Carolina(5-2), Washington(5-2), at NY GIants(1-7), San Fran(2-7), Carolina(5-2), Saints(6-1), at Baltimore(4-4), at Dallas(3-4), Atlanta(3-4). They have to win at least 10 if not 11 games to go to the playoffs based on wild card teams ahead of them. That means they can only lose 2 more games this year to get to 10 wins(which, again, will likely not be enough to get in). Tom Brady would have a hard time quarterbacking this Bucs squad to 7… Read more »

Horse

Very good Article Scott.
Winston isn’t going to change his bad mental habits; maybe he might improve a little with another team. Griffin needs to be the back up and Winston goes on the Inactive game list. There’s 21 million that can be used else where.
Winston has put us in this position and we have to move on. We’re lucky to win 3 more games at best. We don’t have to blow up the team because of one person.

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Pick6

this might not be a popular theory and it is certainly not an excuse, but any new father knows how much a baby can mess with your sleep and your routine in the first 6 months to 1 year. having had 3 kids in 4 years i can attest to sometimes barely knowing where i was as the household muddled through sleepless nights, illnesses, and random digestive issues. Yeah he’s wealthy enough to push it off to a nanny but many parents who can afford to be absent from the little things opt not to. Jameis is in week 4… Read more »

thewbacca

When I think of a Buc father with a lot going on, Joe Jurevicious is the first name that comes to mind. Look at what he endured and look at how he responded. Good chance Tampa doesn’t win a SB without him.

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tpeluso

Lot fewer demands on your third receiver than your prospective franchise QB. Not exactly an equal comparison.

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BucRy

Koetter is in more danger than licht is, at least that’s how I feel. I still believe that if licht felt like his job was on the line, he would have pulled the trigger on the Landon Collins trade, but he backed off holding on to those picks…did the glazers stop him from doing so? I doubt that..I can see a coaching change at least with Winston having another shot under a new coach..I’m ok with it if we do so but I can’t say I’m not worried during the draft with some of the questionable picks he makes. Rate… Read more »

Naplesfan

Much more likely that, being as Licht was on probation this season, after the baby Glazers refused to give him a long term contract extension, Licht was forbidden by the Glazers from any trades involving future draft picks. Certainly if I were the Glazers and hadn’t already canned his ass after his despicable previous season and four full years of grotesque failure as a GM, I would never let him trade jack shit. Why let a loser on his way out the door mortgage the future of the franchise and simultaneously deny draft picks to the guy who will replace… Read more »

BucRy

when will the pain go away Naples!

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Naplesfan

Good question. The baby Glazers have proven repeatedly that the apple fell very far from the tree. Their ability to judge football talent, including GMs and coaches, is nil. The best suggestion I’ve heard is to (again, the weakness here is that it requires personnel judgment by the baby Glazers) is to hire a President of Football Operations of unquestioned knowledged and judgment, then let him hire a GM and coaches and provide the kind of football smarts guidance that the Glazers clearly lack. The best candidate suggested to date is Tony Dungy. He would never leave the broadcast booth… Read more »

Horse

I don’t think he wants all that pressure.

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BucWild02

Geeezaaas Criminy Naplefan…Tony Dungy isn’t coming back to ANY TEAM in ANY CAPACITY. He has a cush job and as much access as he wants to all the teams. No stress. No pressure. No staff. Just him and Rodney breaking down the days games for an hour before SNF plus a little bit of halftime work.

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MizzBucsFan24

I agree with BucRy Licht will probably get one more year unless we hire a high profile coach that wants more team control. But Koetters only chance now is the playoffs with Fitz. The Glazers have stood by Winston for 4 years I just don’t see them dumping him until they know he won’t make them look like fools by having immediate success elsewhere.

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Devasher

This should read: “I want Licht to survive even if Winston is a bust.” because as any reader of Pewter Report knows, Scott Reynolds is a devout follow of the church of Jason Licht. Whether it’s 5 years of missed playoffs, 25-46 record, a top overall draft pick bust, an embarrassing trade up for an awful kicker, 2016 or 2018 draft failures, a history of bad kickers, inept line/defensive backs or misses in free agency Scott wants you to know one thing: “Keep my friend Jason” and Scott is going to write about it until someone in ownership has the… Read more »

SDBucfan

You think the guy who has been covering the bucs for over 20 years doesn’t care about the team? Do you honestly believe what you wrote?

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Devasher

The team has missed the playoffs for 13 straight years, the second longest streak in the 32 team NFL to the Browns and Scott is only critical of the coaches. Every year. Show me the take down of Bruce Allen, Mark Dominik or the Glazers when they are in charge? Show me. I’ll show you take down of Greg Schiano, Lovie Smith, Dirk Koetter all by year two. It’s year 5 of the Licht experiment. How’s it working out for everyone? You realize Pewter Report is NOT a media source like the Tampa Tribune or St Pete Times. The Buccaneers… Read more »

jackpc1

Scott is right on. A regime change (GM and Head Coach) usually brings unwanted changes such as discarding Gerald McCoy, Lavante David, Cam Brate, DeSean Jackson, Ryan Jensen, JPP and others who are on the hook for big money that the team feels can be replaced by draft picks or lower priced/less talented players. I fault Licht’s poor drafts for Bucs’s inability to move forward. He gets a D for his overall effort, including passing on Minkah Fitzgerald and Derwin James, both of whom lead their teams in INT’s. I was not that impressed with Vea unless the thinking was… Read more »

Naplesfan

Nice trick ya did there, Scott. As if all first round picks are created equally, and bring equal consequences to their teams. Everybody knows that getting the no. 1 overall pick in any draft is likely a once in a lifetime opportunity that will either make or break the GM. Not true with any other pick in the first round, especially outside of the top five picks. It is a once in a lifetime pick, because if that same GM ever drafts no. 1 overall again, he is provably a huge failure as a GM. Indeed, more often than not… Read more »

Naplesfan

PS – Gabbert was the no. 10 overall pick, and Weedon was the no. 22 overall pick. In no way, shape, or form was either pick equivalent to the no. 1 overall pick.

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BucWild02

I think you missed his point. The reason a team fired the GM in the past was because of financial reasons. This Bucs team is loaded with talent and a top flight offense in an offensively driven league. Winston failing doesn’t set the team back in terms of salary cap and spent money. They aren’t getting rid of players to accomodate a rookie QB and his enormous salary any more. Look at Minnesota, they failed twice on their 1st round QB and the GM survived Bridgewater but not Ponder because they didn’t have to mortgage the franchises future to draft… Read more »

Devasher

Survived Bridgewater? The 32nd pick in the 2014 NFL Draft? Well hell BucWild: Austin Sefarian Jenkins was the 38th pick in that same draft under Licht. Noah Spence was the 39th pick in the 2016 NFL Draft and Ronald Jones was the 38th pick in the 2018 NFL Draft. Jason Licht appears by some folk to be surviving similar slotted busts just fine. That Teddy Bridgewater would even come up in conversation compared to the NUMBER ONE OVERALL PICK in 2015 is a joke. The value of the two selections is miles apart. The fact that Licht earned the pick… Read more »

BucWild02

Devasher-The article is about GM’s surviving 1st round “franchise” QB misses. Its based on the crippling effect a miss would have before the rookie salary cap was put in place. Read much do ya? A question though…which general manager in the NFL has hit on all free agents and draft picks? You seem to have all the answers about how bad a job Jason Licht has done, but who would do better? Winston was arguably the best QB of his class. Tampa needed a QB and was in position to take the best one in the class. QB’s are the… Read more »

Devasher

You know what’s crazy? Scott pointing out that Ryan Fitzpatrick is only one year older than Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers was drafted in April 2005 almost 14 years ago: The Buccaneers made the playoffs exactly ONE time since he was drafted. The Packers have made the playoffs NINE times since Rodgers was drafted. The Buccaneers have played one playoff game during that time. The Packers have played in 18 playoff games in that time. The Buccaneers lost their only game and are 0-1 in the playoffs (Jan 7 2006 loss to the Redskins). The Packers are 10-8 in the Playoffs under… Read more »

BucWild02

I wonder, does Aaron Rodgers has anything in the Hall of Fame? I know Fitz does for being the first QB in NFL history to start a season by passing for 400 yards in each of his first 3 games. There’s tread on the tires and talent/leadership/savvy with Fitz behind center. Is he Aaron Rodgers? No one is saying he is. But he’s leaps and bounds better than the “W” eater.

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Devasher

Was that a joke? Like seriously? Aaron Rodgers bust will be in the Hall of Fame exactly five years after he retires and Fitz will only get to go if someone gets him a ticket.

If you’re trying to have some sustained success with a journeyman QB who is 1 year older than a 14 year vet who could’ve retired 3 years ago and still gone into the HOF you’re doing it wrong. Having the worst defense in the league doesn’t help matters any.

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Naplesfan

Devasher, BucWilde was not asking if AR will end up in the HOF – of course he will – he was asking if there are any Aaron Rodgers artifacts in the HOF, such as a jersey or football used to break an NFL record, as was the case with Fitz earlier this season when he broke the record for most consecutive 400 yard passing games.

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Devasher

The answer is yes, there is an Aaron Rodgers jersey from week 14 of the 2014 season for being the fastest QB to pass for 25k in NFL history. https://www.profootballhof.com/news/rodgers-700-25-000-club-jersey/

Of course Cadillac Williams cleats are also in the HOF after his blistering start in 2005. Did that validate the decision to draft him over Rodgers that year? I think not.

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BucWild02

Devasher: Listen Troll, no one is calling Fitzpatrick Aaron Rodgers. He’s saying it’s possible to still perform at a high level at that age. Dim wit.

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Devasher

Bucwild you asked if Aaron Rodgers had anything in the HOF like Ryan Fitzpatrick did. In addition to the hilarity that you would attempt to make an Aaron Rodgers/Ryan Fitzpatrick HOF item comparison, I did the 5 seconds of research to determine that yes Aaron Rodgers does in fact have something in the HOF. But I’m a dimwit. Good call.

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cgmaster27

You say he picked wrong way number one but the bucs HAD to take a qb with that pick and Mariota is just as bad as Jameis this year. So it was a 50 50 shot and both guys haven’t really panned out. I do agree with your assessment that Lichts drafts have gotten worse. This years his worst since hes been here I my opinion. Although I will say it’s too early to tell on that. I just think he out thinks himself so much. Drafting guys thay play at one position, only to play on our squad at… Read more »

Naplesfan

Nobody required that the GM select a quarterback at all in 2015. Sure, we were focused on a quarterback but both the Bucs and the Titans passed on some great talents such as Vic Beasely, Todd Gurley, and Amari Cooper. All drafts are crap shoots, of course. But the specific areas of Winston’s failures – both on field and offfield – were extremely well known by everybody, including Licht. He ignored all the red flags, and decided that Winston’s enthusiasm trumped every single other thing. That’s what he said at the time, and that’s what he said on Hard Knocks.… Read more »

cgmaster27

Well in terms of a number one overall pick that year, yes we had to take a qb. We had glennon as our qb, how could we not draft a qb? As for Gurley. For one, you dont take a rb at number 1. For 2 ,he was coming off of acl surgery, so he wasnt even an after thought at the time for number one. It was either Jameis, or Mariota and no other choice would have done it for bucs fans.

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BucWild02

Exactly right cgmaster27.

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pertain

Or, rather than drafting a player with assault and turnover issues, we could have moved down and collected an abundance of much needed draft capital. Chip Kelly was desperate about nabbing his boy MM.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/buccaneers/2015/05/09/eagles-chip-kelly-trade-draft-marcus-mariota-jameis-winston/27052859/

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Horse

How do we know they are poor picks? I admit they weren’t my favorites, but I learned after saying McCoy was a bust after 2 years, and had to hear about it from Scubog for years, that I’d wait for three years before saying it was a bad pick.

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alan skelly

Licht had no winning choice to make in the 2015 draft. Winston and Mariota are busts as #1 picks. There were no stars worthy of the first round pick in 2015. Most are good pros but not stars worthy of the first pick. The only players who have turned into stars have been Gurley, Gordon and Peters. Licht would have been instantly crucified for using #1 on either running back and Peters did not reach his second contract with the team that drafted him. Who could Licht have picked at #1 that would have worked out? Rate this item:Thumb UpThumb… Read more »

Naplesfan

I have one great answer: Vic Beasely, who’s been giving us fits ever since he was drafted by the Falcons. In a position that we’ve been horrendously bad at ever since Simeon Rice retired (but looking better at the moment with JPP). And yes, we did not need to stay at no. 1 either, could easily have traded down for more picks, and still gotten Beasely. Or Todd Gurley. Or Melvin Gordon. Or even traded for a future year no. 1 pick, and gotten Jared Goff or Carson Wentz, if he understood that both of those guys were better than… Read more »

alan skelly

Good point. Trading out would have been a good move. I seem to remember the Eagles offering a huge package but cannot remember details except that Corey Peters was involved. Under those circumstances adding Beasley would have made our d-line formidable.

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alan skelly

If we add Gurley or Gordon to our current set of receivers…..

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alan skelly

Hah and the Eagles would be dealing with the Winston issues 🙂

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alan skelly

Perfect

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alan skelly

Duh I meant Fletcher Cox not Peter’s

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cgmaster27

Good points about trading out, but kicht would be been crucified for taking nearly after our luck with Clemson DE. And he was awful his first year until they moved him to lb. You think the bucs wouldve done that? I dont

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bEubanks11

I fully support this article and in my best SR impersonation I’m going to pat myself on the back and say you heard it here first. I pretty much wrote the first Fab in the comments of the cover 3 earlier in the week. “bEubanks11 Oct 31, 18 at 1:07 am I don’t believe the Glaziers think that Koetter or Licht are the problem and frankly I don’t either. With a historically bad defensive scheme our offensive with a journeyman QB and a turnover machine leading the way have kept us competitive in every game so far this year. We… Read more »

bEubanks11

Some are willing to be patient with Winston as he grows. What about our coach and GM who were hired as NFL rookies at their positions and are finding their way as well. Koetter has learned and Licht have learned from obvious mistakes they’ve made. Im sticking with them like first overall pics because I truly believe they have raw but rare talent and have the drive to be the best. It’s making the same mistakes over and over that get you benched. Those guys are moving forward. Let’s ride this thing if for no other reason than continuity. We’re… Read more »

athans5

Come on SR, I completely disagree with your take on Fab 1. KOETTERS offense is leading the league in total offense. I can’t give Licht any credit for OJ Howard, he fell right into his lap, any GM would have made that pick. Same with Mike Evans. But that’s not the point, Koetters main job is the offense, which is thriving. Licht has been tasked of fixing a defense that has been putrid for the past 3 years. What has he done, yes Kwon was a great steal, but where are his other playmakers on defense besides JPP. He picked… Read more »

matador

Out OL is weak and requires several high picks to fix Our DL is a patchwork with many FA misses over the last 5 yrs, as GMC and JPP age our will need a total rebuild Our entire defensive backfield is a mess Our QB is a bust so far but we’re hoping against hope he pulls it together in year 5 Our RB situation lacks quality and depth We over-drafted and over spent the WR and TE positions at the expense of everything else We used a 2 on a kicker despite these many needs Whether or not Winston… Read more »

Tampa 2.2

Winston needs to hear a different voice in his ear. If the Bucs wants to improve Winston as a QB, they must hire a new QB coach. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. Winston has too much talent not to bring in a talented QB coach. Jared Golf didn’t become who he is now until they changed coaches. Can anyone name one QB Mike Bajakian, Todd Monken or Dirk Koetter developed? If I am the Bucs I let Fitz finish the year as the starting QB and hire a proven… Read more »

mcmcbrideinUT

Insightful article and enjoyed reading all the comments as well!

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bEubanks11

I can’t believe you’re all still not happy with the number 1 offense. No part of the offense is a problem as a whole they are the best. And neither is the talent on defense that Licht has provided. I said before the season started that this team will go as far as Mike Smith’s defense. That was and remains my only concern. The defensive scheme. Find one that is decent and we’ll be good for a very long time. We’re right on the edge. Small adjustments and watch the machine churn out the wins. Rate this item:Thumb UpThumb DownSubmit… Read more »

76Buc

The Glazers make me nervous. They also fired Tony Dungy.
I think that if Fitz goes down we should put the youngster in-not Winston.
I think we’re one defensive draft away from an NFC championship.

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surferdudes

Can Licht survive a first round bust? Maybe, but can he survive all the second round busts? Many he moved up in the draft for. Can he survive all the free agent busts? For every JPP, there’s at least a Sweezy, and a Baker. Scott how can you point to Licht drafting Evans as a find? He was the 6th pick in the draft. What if Licht would’ve picked Donald instead? Would we have been worse off? How about Godwin, great find. We could’ve had Hunt, think we could run the ball now? So what Licht has done going on… Read more »

Devasher

You’re right surferdudes, but unfortunately Scott isn’t interested in a good faith argument about Licht’s successes and failures. The failures are significant, the record is poor and the foundation of the franchise is rockier now than since the day Licht earned us a 1st overall pick by overseeing the worst roster in football in 2014. Scott wants to point to a couple of wide receivers and a tight end for 5 years of drafts and warn people we can’t do better? I’m amazed that people are buying it. Scott isn’t doing this out of good faith, he has long ago… Read more »

twspin

Buc fan here since inception. I sat in the old Sombrero with my dad who drank beer and cursed the Bucs. we never won then. Kinda like now! We’ve progressed greatly under one coach in Tampa. And that was..Tony Dungy. Before him, we were the laughin stock and steppin stone of the NFL. Yes, chucky won the Superbowl with..Tony’s players and foundation. He sanked right after that. Now enter the years of the Buc revolving coaching doors. Enough to make one take daily doses of dramamine! I say Show Licht and Koetter the door after this losing season. And yes,… Read more »

EastEndBoy

FAB 1 is why we are the Bucs…how many devastating mistakes does Licht have to make before there is consensus to kick him out? It’s not just the whiff after whiff in the draft (drafting is hard and there will be more busts than success), it’s A) the absence of a decision process – if you know our team is going to have a zero tolerance policy for DUI, why spend a 2nd rounder on ASJ? B) the bizarre selection of players with high picks that don’t fit our schemes – MJ Stewart is the latest. C) the lack of… Read more »

Buc76

Twspin I’ve said that on this forum weeks ago. Glad you’re on board. I also say hire Derrick brooks to be the GM and in 5 years when dungy retires again brooks can run it. Licht is a total joke. He’s done more damage here than any other GM and I’ve seen them all. If the glazers want people to buy tickets koetter and licht will be gone. This weekend we get destroyed by Carolina. Think raiders last night but a lot worse

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BucWild02

Great ideas guys! Hey, while we’re at it lets get Bill Cowher to be the head coach! Also, lets trade for Gurley, Mack, the Dallas offensive line, Derwin James, Patrick Peterson, Aaron Donald and of course Tom Brady! Then Tampa fans will know how much winning means to you! Oh yeah, don’t forget Stephen Gostkowski and Adam Viniateri!

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drdneast

Buc76, you really must have a couple of empty Gordon Gin bottle next to your lounge chair or you are definitely Mark Dominick hiding behind that name. Dominick was no doubt the worst GM this team ever had and Bruce Allen wasn’t to far behind. Dominick’s drafting was so bad he can;t even get a job in an NFL front office. Allen went back to Washington and in the spirit of American business, continued his imcompetent drafting thier so he was promoted to Presidency of the organization where he couldn’t mess anything up. The only player left out of all… Read more »

scubog

Worst GM in my mind-Ken Herrock or Phil Krueger.

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PriMech54

Pewterreport is losing credibility posting sh!t like this. So we’re going to preach and clamor for 4 years that if they can’t develop their #1 overall quarterback then they should be canned but now if Winston’s a bust they can keep their jobs because they gain yards? Jesus… btw, Winston isn’t a bust. You people are guzzling kool-aid at this point. This offense is one-dimensional fool’s gold regardless of QB play. You don’t build a team completely backwards ignoring the trenches and running attack for years and rely on “explosives” and 7-step deep bombs to ride into the playoffs when… Read more »

seat26

They can survive but only if they can muster a 7-9 Season or better. If Fitz becomes the 2nd coming of George Blanda or Tom Brady, they might salvage this season, and who knows maybe milk another season or two out of him. But, Fitz is a back-up for a reason. He has flirted with this before. if Winston is a bust, then the QB Carousel continues, and I can’t choose between which is worse, that or the Coaching Carousel. I am sick of seeing new regimes come in and have one good year and then poop out. With all… Read more »