Off topic a bit - but, in the Denver game, did it look to anyone else like the RB was upset with the last timeout, right before they got the big first down to end it? It looked like the RB (Moreno) got up after the prior play and went to Manning and said something like "just run it again now" and then raised his arms in frustration when Manning called the timeout? It all worked out, but a little strange
I don't know how you are saying that Manning isn't a great QB right now. Is his arm the same? No. But he's a master at manipulation, and most of the run success seems to me a function of Manning's ability to consistently get good looks. The guy is an absolute master.
Not to mention he drew the defense offside with hard counts 2 times, IIRC
Saw Manning's hands and body "flinch" on those, but his head did not. Not sure how many QB's get away with that. But I give him credit for apparent endless hours of practicing that.
I don't know how you are saying that Manning isn't a great QB right now. Is his arm the same? No. But he's a master at manipulation, and most of the run success seems to me a function of Manning's ability to consistently get good looks. The guy is an absolute master.
Not to mention he drew the defense offside with hard counts 2 times, IIRC
Saw Manning's hands and body "flinch" on those, but his head did not. Not sure how many QB's get away with that. But I give him credit for apparent endless hours of practicing that.
I don't know how you are saying that Manning isn't a great QB right now. Is his arm the same? No. But he's a master at manipulation, and most of the run success seems to me a function of Manning's ability to consistently get good looks. The guy is an absolute master.
Not to mention he drew the defense offside with hard counts 2 times, IIRC
Saw Manning's hands and body "flinch" on those, but his head did not. Not sure how many QB's get away with that. But I give him credit for apparent endless hours of practicing that.
--probably only Brady, Manning and Brees could get away with it. (not that I would ever suggest the NFL refs "play favorites")
I don't know how you are saying that Manning isn't a great QB right now. Is his arm the same? No. But he's a master at manipulation, and most of the run success seems to me a function of Manning's ability to consistently get good looks. The guy is an absolute master.
Not to mention he drew the defense offside with hard counts 2 times, IIRC
Saw Manning's hands and body "flinch" on those, but his head did not. Not sure how many QB's get away with that. But I give him credit for apparent endless hours of practicing that.
--probably only Brady, Manning and Brees could get away with it. (not that I would ever suggest the NFL refs "play favorites")
Unless you win the lottery and either draft Peyton or your "pistol" QB never gets injured, the best way to consistently win is with what Coach Schiano calls "complimentary" football...run the ball, take some shots, great defense, and great special teams. The "game manager" QB works best in this instance.The ONLY two negatives I've ever seen to "complimentary" football is 1) a great deal of today's fans and media think it doesn't work, is too conservative, and is unexciting. 2) owners agree with the aforementioned group and thus make the rule changes and hire coaches that will bring about the higher scoring games. The NFL has for a long time tried to bring in more women,young people, and fringe fans who don't appreciate a 13-7 defensive battle. They've thumbed their noses at fans like myself who yearn for the game the way it was supposed to be played. It's turned out well for the NFL SO FAR. I have my doubts it will be doing this well twenty years from now, though.
It doesn't work. I'm amazed people think this -- but god help me people will continue to bleat this out. It actually never worked the way you think it worked BTW people seem to forget that most SB winning teams have HoF QBs but not HoF RBs for example. Seriously, find any correlation between running and winning. I mean this goes back the old "if a back gets 22+ carries team X wins 85% of the time". That is true but the former has nothing to do with the latter. You can't just bludgeon your way to wins. BUF has a ton of carries, #1 in the league, but didn't win jack. NYJ, TEN are also both top 10 rush attempt teams and won zippo. Yes, SEA, SF, PHL, SD, CAR, CIN, NE are also top 10 and lo and behold GB and and DEN are 11 and 12 so teams who run well are all over the playoffs but that figure isn't why they are in the playoffs the difference between BUF and SEA isn't their ability to run, their figures are basically the same, but their effectiveness passing where SEA is 5 and BUF is 26. SD is 21 per carry rushing, the Jets are 10th. Want to guess where SD (2nd) and NYJ (32) rank in terms of passing? Who is in or not in the playoffs? Thing is you can't even with a straight face defend your self. Which guy off SF immediately makes us a better team as we ended the year -- Kaep or Gore? Actually if you list out Kaep, Gore, Aldon Smith, or Willis rank 'me and tell me any world where Gore isn't last. You cannot plan to run and play defense and be a playoff team. You have to throw the ball effectively.
Unless you win the lottery and either draft Peyton or your "pistol" QB never gets injured, the best way to consistently win is with what Coach Schiano calls "complimentary" football...run the ball, take some shots, great defense, and great special teams. The "game manager" QB works best in this instance.The ONLY two negatives I've ever seen to "complimentary" football is 1) a great deal of today's fans and media think it doesn't work, is too conservative, and is unexciting. 2) owners agree with the aforementioned group and thus make the rule changes and hire coaches that will bring about the higher scoring games. The NFL has for a long time tried to bring in more women,young people, and fringe fans who don't appreciate a 13-7 defensive battle. They've thumbed their noses at fans like myself who yearn for the game the way it was supposed to be played. It's turned out well for the NFL SO FAR. I have my doubts it will be doing this well twenty years from now, though.
It doesn't work. I'm amazed people think this -- but god help me people will continue to bleat this out. It actually never worked the way you think it worked BTW people seem to forget that most SB winning teams have HoF QBs but not HoF RBs for example. Seriously, find any correlation between running and winning. I mean this goes back the old "if a back gets 22+ carries team X wins 85% of the time". That is true but the former has nothing to do with the latter. You can't just bludgeon your way to wins. BUF has a ton of carries, #1 in the league, but didn't win jack. NYJ, TEN are also both top 10 rush attempt teams and won zippo. Yes, SEA, SF, PHL, SD, CAR, CIN, NE are also top 10 and lo and behold GB and and DEN are 11 and 12 so teams who run well are all over the playoffs but that figure isn't why they are in the playoffs the difference between BUF and SEA isn't their ability to run, their figures are basically the same, but their effectiveness passing where SEA is 5 and BUF is 26. SD is 21 per carry rushing, the Jets are 10th. Want to guess where SD (2nd) and NYJ (32) rank in terms of passing? Who is in or not in the playoffs? Thing is you can't even with a straight face defend your self. Which guy off SF immediately makes us a better team as we ended the year -- Kaep or Gore? Actually if you list out Kaep, Gore, Aldon Smith, or Willis rank 'me and tell me any world where Gore isn't last. You cannot plan to run and play defense and be a playoff team. You have to throw the ball effectively.
I don't see great QB's playing in the NFC Championship game; just good ones.
Me thinks you must look a bit harder.
I don't see great QB's playing in the NFC Championship game; just good ones.
Me thinks you must look a bit harder.
Unless you win the lottery and either draft Peyton or your "pistol" QB never gets injured, the best way to consistently win is with what Coach Schiano calls "complimentary" football...run the ball, take some shots, great defense, and great special teams. The "game manager" QB works best in this instance.The ONLY two negatives I've ever seen to "complimentary" football is 1) a great deal of today's fans and media think it doesn't work, is too conservative, and is unexciting. 2) owners agree with the aforementioned group and thus make the rule changes and hire coaches that will bring about the higher scoring games. The NFL has for a long time tried to bring in more women,young people, and fringe fans who don't appreciate a 13-7 defensive battle. They've thumbed their noses at fans like myself who yearn for the game the way it was supposed to be played. It's turned out well for the NFL SO FAR. I have my doubts it will be doing this well twenty years from now, though.
It doesn't work. I'm amazed people think this -- but god help me people will continue to bleat this out. It actually never worked the way you think it worked BTW people seem to forget that most SB winning teams have HoF QBs but not HoF RBs for example. Seriously, find any correlation between running and winning.
last night the Broncos had the ball with the lead and about 4 minutes left . . they ran to run the clock. I think it was 5 runs to 4 passes. not sure though.The part in red does not match your argument. On the one hand you say that there is NO correlation between running and winning, but then you argue that running is of lesser importance (i.e., if running was as important there would be more HOF RBs) Passing is important and that is why you would always take a HOF QB if you knew you had a chance, BUT running and defense still play a big part
Unless you win the lottery and either draft Peyton or your "pistol" QB never gets injured, the best way to consistently win is with what Coach Schiano calls "complimentary" football...run the ball, take some shots, great defense, and great special teams. The "game manager" QB works best in this instance.The ONLY two negatives I've ever seen to "complimentary" football is 1) a great deal of today's fans and media think it doesn't work, is too conservative, and is unexciting. 2) owners agree with the aforementioned group and thus make the rule changes and hire coaches that will bring about the higher scoring games. The NFL has for a long time tried to bring in more women,young people, and fringe fans who don't appreciate a 13-7 defensive battle. They've thumbed their noses at fans like myself who yearn for the game the way it was supposed to be played. It's turned out well for the NFL SO FAR. I have my doubts it will be doing this well twenty years from now, though.
It doesn't work. I'm amazed people think this -- but god help me people will continue to bleat this out. It actually never worked the way you think it worked BTW people seem to forget that most SB winning teams have HoF QBs but not HoF RBs for example. Seriously, find any correlation between running and winning.
last night the Broncos had the ball with the lead and about 4 minutes left . . they ran to run the clock. I think it was 5 runs to 4 passes. not sure though.The part in red does not match your argument. On the one hand you say that there is NO correlation between running and winning, but then you argue that running is of lesser importance (i.e., if running was as important there would be more HOF RBs) Passing is important and that is why you would always take a HOF QB if you knew you had a chance, BUT running and defense still play a big part
Billick on Fox:Observations from Divisional Round:• It may be a quarterback-driven league, but the ability to run the ball in the playoffs remains a prerequisite for winning. Every team that won this weekend ran for more than 120 yards and the four winning teams combined for an average of 166 rushing yards per game. On the flip side, three of the four losing teams failed to reach the century mark, with the four losing teams combining to average just 83.7 rushing yards.Finally, both the Seahawks and Patriots won while gaining more yards on the ground than through the air -- and neither Russell Wilson nor Tom Brady threw for a touchdown in their games.And this: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-01-13/nfl-playoffs-afc-nfc-championships-patriots-broncos-49ers-seahawks-running-games-marshawn-lynch-blount-gore-Moreno Good summary here to: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-01-13/nfl-playoffs-afc-nfc-championships-patriots-broncos-49ers-seahawks-running-games-marshawn-lynch-blount-gore-Moreno just food for thought
Billick on Fox:Observations from Divisional Round:• It may be a quarterback-driven league, but the ability to run the ball in the playoffs remains a prerequisite for winning. Every team that won this weekend ran for more than 120 yards and the four winning teams combined for an average of 166 rushing yards per game. On the flip side, three of the four losing teams failed to reach the century mark, with the four losing teams combining to average just 83.7 rushing yards.Finally, both the Seahawks and Patriots won while gaining more yards on the ground than through the air -- and neither Russell Wilson nor Tom Brady threw for a touchdown in their games.And this: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-01-13/nfl-playoffs-afc-nfc-championships-patriots-broncos-49ers-seahawks-running-games-marshawn-lynch-blount-gore-Moreno Good summary here to: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2014-01-13/nfl-playoffs-afc-nfc-championships-patriots-broncos-49ers-seahawks-running-games-marshawn-lynch-blount-gore-Moreno just food for thought
I think the Niners, Seahawks and to a lesser extent the Panthers are what Lovie wants to bring to Tampa. Obviously all three have quarterbacks who can make plays but they also possess top notch rushing attacks and dominant defenses.I thought the Niners/Panthers game was old school defense at it's best. It was an old fashioned slobberknocker and in the end, only 30 points were scored between the two teams.
A lot of that had to do with horrific offensive game planning by CAR.
I think the Niners, Seahawks and to a lesser extent the Panthers are what Lovie wants to bring to Tampa. Obviously all three have quarterbacks who can make plays but they also possess top notch rushing attacks and dominant defenses.I thought the Niners/Panthers game was old school defense at it's best. It was an old fashioned slobberknocker and in the end, only 30 points were scored between the two teams.
A lot of that had to do with horrific offensive game planning by CAR.
