The only way the Bucs have leverage, is if they tag Baker.
Which, again, would be incredibly stupid.
Bucs have the leverage here. It would mean continuity, a place for him to call home, familiarity, etc.
He's not getting that anywhere else.
As I said, if someone's stupid enough to give him a Daniel Jones deal, then so be it. Hope it's not us.
I’d agree to a point with this, I’m just not as hung up on the APY - it’s just number - cap is rising. It nets out. We don’t have a history of crazy deals.The only way the Bucs have leverage, is if they tag Baker.
Which, again, would be incredibly stupid.
Bucs have the leverage here. It would mean continuity, a place for him to call home, familiarity, etc.
He's not getting that anywhere else.
As I said, if someone's stupid enough to give him a Daniel Jones deal, then so be it. Hope it's not us.
I’m just not as hung up on the APY - it’s just number - cap is rising. It nets out.
I mean, it is and it isn’t.
But, I get what you’re saying.
The Bucs could settle with Winfield quickly by basically meeting his price, so you spend more than you like on Winfield but it's small potatoes compared to the QB situation. That would shift the tag leverage to Mayfield.
I disagree with Donkey. This is Mayfield's best shot to get some real money while he's in his prime. There are other teams who would be interested in his services. Falcons and Vikings come to mind, but the Bucs can avoid the bidding war if they are willing to use the tag.
Mayfield has to strike while the iron is hot, so that's the leverage for the Bucs. An off year due to injuries or poor performance or just a down year for the team could put a serious dent in his value. Everything is roses for Baker right now, and he has to capitalize on that. Mayfield will want to settle to avoid the tag IMO.
So if I'm Licht I say to Bakers' agent "We love Baker, and we think he is worth such and such. All kinds of numbers are being floated about what other teams might offer, and as much as we want Baker we don't want to get into a bidding war. So we are prepared to reluctantly use the franchise tag on him." They'll take the deal IMO. No bidding war.
Who gives a shyt as long as everyone WINS IN THE END. Alls well that Ends well. There is a lot of Love “Dwelling” within OBP…when 2 parties care for each other…deals are easy to make. Just have popcorn or crow ready!
Kind of.The Bucs could settle with Winfield quickly by basically meeting his price, so you spend more than you like on Winfield but it's small potatoes compared to the QB situation. That would shift the tag leverage to Mayfield.
I disagree with Donkey. This is Mayfield's best shot to get some real money while he's in his prime. There are other teams who would be interested in his services. Falcons and Vikings come to mind, but the Bucs can avoid the bidding war if they are willing to use the tag.
Mayfield has to strike while the iron is hot, so that's the leverage for the Bucs. An off year due to injuries or poor performance or just a down year for the team could put a serious dent in his value. Everything is roses for Baker right now, and he has to capitalize on that. Mayfield will want to settle to avoid the tag IMO.
So if I'm Licht I say to Bakers' agent "We love Baker, and we think he is worth such and such. All kinds of numbers are being floated about what other teams might offer, and as much as we want Baker we don't want to get into a bidding war. So we are prepared to reluctantly use the franchise tag on him." They'll take the deal IMO. No bidding war.
If you start negotiating with anyone other than Baker, first, it would send a message that would absolutely be interpreted by Baker’s team as to the Bucs estimation of his importance to the team. The Buccaneer organization is clearly trying to send a different message. We know that if you want to win now, then there is no option if Baker walks.
After looking into it (admittedly, before restructuring/re-negotiating of each teams cap), the cap for the teams we’ve heard that interested in Baker (according to spotrac.com):
New England - $67m
Atlanta - $24m
Denver - $30m
Las Vegas - $39m
Pittsburgh - $22m
Of all of them, New England is poised as the biggest threat: cap space, high draft pick- but also hired Baker’s OC from the Browns, AVP & QB coach.
Depends on what they determine is preferable. Would drafting a QB be better than acquiring Baker. But, they also have the cap space to do both.
It’s why I think you cannot assume that the Bucs have leverage. Because the Buc’s have shown strong interest, it shows they have not only made up they’re mind, but they also understand there is real competition.
It’s why I don’t think Geno Smith contract is the guideline.
I do think Baker is willing to negotiate, but as you make the point, he doesn’t need/nor the time, to take a home-town deal.
I don't assume the Bucs have leverage, unless they have the tag option for him. If you pay Winfield three or four more million than you wanted to, thats a small sacrifice if you can avoid getting into a bidding war for Baker. Sure, Baker and his agent would love a bidding war, but the Bucs are fully justified if they don't want to get in one.
Instead of giving Baker the chance to choose between Atlanta, Minnesota, Las Vegas, the Bucs and whoever, he'll have the choice of the Bucs with the tag or the Bucs with a new contract. The Bucs can begin negotiations with Baker first. I'm sure they already have. Who they come to an agreement with first depends on whether they can come to an agreement on demands. If there's a full out bidding war I'm not sure when or if the Bucs can meet Baker's demands. The Bucs can't put everybody on hold until that happens.
The Bucs could settle with Winfield quickly by basically meeting his price, so you spend more than you like on Winfield but it's small potatoes compared to the QB situation. That would shift the tag leverage to Mayfield.
Regarding "settling" with Winfield, you'd be "settling" on a superior player.
Winfield is EASILY the 1a or 1b player you sign to a new deal wit Wirfs.
Unlike Baker, both have been considered to be the best at their positions. Multiple AP honors (Baker not even close in that department).
I disagree with Donkey. This is Mayfield's best shot to get some real money while he's in his prime. There are other teams who would be interested in his services. Falcons and Vikings come to mind, but the Bucs can avoid the bidding war if they are willing to use the tag.
Avoid what bidding war?
The Vikings? Who will most likely keep Cousins, assuming he's healthy?
The Falcons? Who have all been linked to either Fields or trading up for Daniels?
@white-tiger posted something last month about the fear of us losing Baker to these teams. Saying they "were smart and know something others don't".
If that were the case, why didn't they sign him last off-season?
Mayfield has to strike while the iron is hot, so that's the leverage for the Bucs.
Which has been my point all along.
"Consistently Inconsistnet". You think other GM's don't think the same way?
If not, why wasn't he signed before he got here?
Signing Winfield, and being ok to over-paying him, while not Baker? Means you either think someone currently on the depth chart - can do as good a job - or you don’t care about winning.
Signing Winfield without Baker, you lose Mike Evans, and others.
You can join the maintenance guys they sent to adjust the wireless antenna on the Titanic. What happens in this glorious work of fantasy? Who steps in to give us a better chance of winning?
or are you part of the group who doesn’t mind losing for the next decade while we sort through the Bucs next, ex-QB?
it would wear me out - except I realized the same guys who were wrong about the last QB controversy, are pretty much the same guys on the wrong side of the Mayfield discussion, this time.
haha, I feel like this is a joke. Anyone can hit on a great DT. The thing is not many keep track of the misses. How good is the search function here? It would be fun if someone had the time to post the final mock draftsNot Even Mahomes.
That’s what I said. He’s the only one.
Anyone else in the league is worth trading for FIVE first round picks.
And, you’re wrong on the “none of US could do it” comment.
Over the last 10-15 years on these boards, there’s been NUMEROUS posters who’ve had mocks, draft takes, etc. that would’ve built insanely good rosters.
Man, I remember the epic conversations of the 2014 draft like it was yesterday.
I wanted Donald so bad.
Signing Winfield, and being ok to over-paying him, while not Baker? Means you either think someone currently on the depth chart - can do as good a job - or you don’t care about winning.
Signing Winfield without Baker, you lose Mike Evans, and others.
You can join the maintenance guys they sent to adjust the wireless antenna on the Titanic. What happens in this glorious work of fantasy? Who steps in to give us a better chance of winning?
or are you part of the group who doesn’t mind losing for the next decade while we sort through the Bucs next, ex-QB?
it would wear me out - except I realized the same guys who were wrong about the last QB controversy, are pretty much the same guys on the wrong side of the Mayfield discussion, this time.
i think most agree we need to sign all three and we have the cap space to do it
i know we like to live in the world of hypotheticals
but
i'd rank in order of
1. Winfield - 25 years old, basically punched our ticket to the playoffs in the Carolina game
2. Evans - 30 years old. i mean nothing needs to be said here. the offense goes through Mike
3. Mayfield - 28 years old. dude had a good year. Let's see if he can build off it but as many would suggest he had good years in 2018 and 2020 and followed them up with duds in 2019 and 2021.
I agree Baker is our best option this off-season. no doubt.
we need to sign all three and we are capable of doing so. anything less would be a complete failure.
Badabing, your top 3 doesn't include Wirfs?
For the fans who excuse Baker's poor performance years because "he's had a different OC almost every year," why are you so sure he's the Bucs' best option this year with a NEW OC from last year?
Badabing, your top 3 doesn't include Wirfs?
well Wirfs is under contract. yes they should look to extend him. Wirfs would jump to 1 if he was unrestricted free agent
For the fans who excuse Baker's poor performance years because "he's had a different OC almost every year," why are you so sure he's the Bucs' best option this year with a NEW OC from last year?
can't speak for others but only because you couldn't give me a list of 1 or 2 realistic options better than Baker this off-season is why we must re-sign him.
but i'll lay it out for you:
1. Goes without saying that no one on the roster currently can hold his jock strap but apparently this needs to be said
2. Draft wise - 3 guys likely to go in top 5; another 2 before the Bucs pick. Maybe one or two of them actually amounts to anything; picking at 26, likely best to just build up on needs - edge, ILB, IOL, etc. If Baker blows chunks this year, we will have a better pick and draft a guy in 2025.
3. Kirk Cousins may be better and likely command a similar per year deal at the $30M range. Questions around his age and injury. Also - will Minnesota let him leave? Will teams that think they are a QB away get into bidding wars for him such as Denver, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta? Is it worth the risk to pursue Cousins over Mayfield? Mayfield has had better playoff success and Cousins is basically a .500 QB.
4. Russell Wilson may become available too and i think if he does, that's an interesting option. He will be able to play for vet minimum given his contract with Denver. Again, the same suitors for Cousin - Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Atlanta may go all out for him. Is it worth the risk to get in a bidding war when you can sign the guy who is motivated to stay?
so basically i see two potential upgrades from Baker and it's going to be 35 year old Kirk Cousins and Russell Wilson who (1) are not guaranteed to be available (2) no certainty they would even want to join Tampa Bay (3) will have other suitors of teams a QB away (4) age is more of a concern than 28 year old Baker (5) A different OC for sure but Baker has already built up chemistry with key guys like Evans, Godwin, White, and Otton.
