haha, I feel like this is a joke. Anyone can hit on a great DT. The thing is not many keep track of the misses. How good is the search function here? It would be fun if someone had the time to post the final mock draftsNot Even Mahomes.
That’s what I said. He’s the only one.
Anyone else in the league is worth trading for FIVE first round picks.
And, you’re wrong on the “none of US could do it” comment.
Over the last 10-15 years on these boards, there’s been NUMEROUS posters who’ve had mocks, draft takes, etc. that would’ve built insanely good rosters.
Man, I remember the epic conversations of the 2014 draft like it was yesterday.
I wanted Donald so bad.
Signing Winfield, and being ok to over-paying him, while not Baker? Means you either think someone currently on the depth chart - can do as good a job - or you don’t care about winning.
Signing Winfield without Baker, you lose Mike Evans, and others.
You can join the maintenance guys they sent to adjust the wireless antenna on the Titanic. What happens in this glorious work of fantasy? Who steps in to give us a better chance of winning?
or are you part of the group who doesn’t mind losing for the next decade while we sort through the Bucs next, ex-QB?
it would wear me out - except I realized the same guys who were wrong about the last QB controversy, are pretty much the same guys on the wrong side of the Mayfield discussion, this time.
i think most agree we need to sign all three and we have the cap space to do it
i know we like to live in the world of hypotheticals
but
i'd rank in order of
1. Winfield - 25 years old, basically punched our ticket to the playoffs in the Carolina game
2. Evans - 30 years old. i mean nothing needs to be said here. the offense goes through Mike
3. Mayfield - 28 years old. dude had a good year. Let's see if he can build off it but as many would suggest he had good years in 2018 and 2020 and followed them up with duds in 2019 and 2021.
I agree Baker is our best option this off-season. no doubt.
we need to sign all three and we are capable of doing so. anything less would be a complete failure.
Badabing, your top 3 doesn't include Wirfs?
For the fans who excuse Baker's poor performance years because "he's had a different OC almost every year," why are you so sure he's the Bucs' best option this year with a NEW OC from last year?
Badabing, your top 3 doesn't include Wirfs?
well Wirfs is under contract. yes they should look to extend him. Wirfs would jump to 1 if he was unrestricted free agent
For the fans who excuse Baker's poor performance years because "he's had a different OC almost every year," why are you so sure he's the Bucs' best option this year with a NEW OC from last year?
can't speak for others but only because you couldn't give me a list of 1 or 2 realistic options better than Baker this off-season is why we must re-sign him.
but i'll lay it out for you:
1. Goes without saying that no one on the roster currently can hold his jock strap but apparently this needs to be said
2. Draft wise - 3 guys likely to go in top 5; another 2 before the Bucs pick. Maybe one or two of them actually amounts to anything; picking at 26, likely best to just build up on needs - edge, ILB, IOL, etc. If Baker blows chunks this year, we will have a better pick and draft a guy in 2025.
3. Kirk Cousins may be better and likely command a similar per year deal at the $30M range. Questions around his age and injury. Also - will Minnesota let him leave? Will teams that think they are a QB away get into bidding wars for him such as Denver, Pittsburgh, and Atlanta? Is it worth the risk to pursue Cousins over Mayfield? Mayfield has had better playoff success and Cousins is basically a .500 QB.
4. Russell Wilson may become available too and i think if he does, that's an interesting option. He will be able to play for vet minimum given his contract with Denver. Again, the same suitors for Cousin - Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Atlanta may go all out for him. Is it worth the risk to get in a bidding war when you can sign the guy who is motivated to stay?
so basically i see two potential upgrades from Baker and it's going to be 35 year old Kirk Cousins and Russell Wilson who (1) are not guaranteed to be available (2) no certainty they would even want to join Tampa Bay (3) will have other suitors of teams a QB away (4) age is more of a concern than 28 year old Baker (5) A different OC for sure but Baker has already built up chemistry with key guys like Evans, Godwin, White, and Otton.
For the fans who excuse Baker's poor performance years because "he's had a different OC almost every year," why are you so sure he's the Bucs' best option this year with a NEW OC from last year?
For fans seeking to minimize Mayfield’s accomplishments so they can make the case for some invisible player to be named later. While at Cleveland he had one year that was off-track, and one that was due to injury. Carolina is the house Tepper built, as Tepper continues his goal to become the new Daniel Snyder.
With Baker, you can point to consistent winning seasons going back to his time as a Heisman winning walk-on at Oklahoma, Cleveland, LA, and Tampa.
It’s silliness to suggest he’s the problem. He’s not. He will be fine. He’s not Mahomes, but 31 other QB’s aren’t either.
Thankfully, we Buc fans don’t have to rely on Kyle, or some other mystical unicorn/PTBNL. Should we re-sign Baker Mike & AWJ, we’ll go as far as an improved o-line & the defense will take us.
The problem in Tampa last year, was not Baker. Barring injury, that an improved line/run-game should insure - both priorities for the draft - will only serve to bolster, consistency.
For the fans who excuse Baker's poor performance years because "he's had a different OC almost every year," why are you so sure he's the Bucs' best option this year with a NEW OC from last year?
For fans seeking to minimize Mayfield’s accomplishments so they can make the case for some invisible player to be named later. While at Cleveland he had one year that was off-track, and one that was due to injury. Carolina is the house Tepper built, as Tepper continues his goal to become the new Daniel Snyder.
With Baker, you can point to consistent winning seasons going back to his time as a Heisman winning walk-on at Oklahoma, Cleveland, LA, and Tampa.
It’s silliness to suggest he’s the problem. He’s not. He will be fine. He’s not Mahomes, but 31 other QB’s aren’t either.
Thankfully, we Buc fans don’t have to rely on Kyle, or some other mystical unicorn/PTBNL. Should we re-sign Baker Mike & AWJ, we’ll go as far as an improved o-line & the defense will take us.
The problem in Tampa last year, was not Baker. Barring injury, that an improved line/run-game should insure - both priorities for the draft - will only serve to bolster, consistency.
nobody should take the 2022 Baker season seriously. He was traded in July of that year. Most QBs sign in March and much more time to learn the playbook and gain chemistry with players. So while the Baker haters can say, he was ass in 2022, he really wasn't given a great opportunity there. It be different if he was traded several months earlier but need to be level headed of the assessment there. I essentially throw it away.
what should be judged is his time in Cleveland and he had a good rookie year followed up with a dud in 2019 and a rebound in 2020 and ok if you want to throw 2021 out to injury but Baker's ceiling is he has not surpassed 28 touchdown passes. Is that his ceiling? Can he do better? My hope is that he can. How he performed in 2023 was good but NOT great. So is he a guy worthy of the #1 overall pick or a mid level QB. I'd currently rank him anywhere from 14 to 20 on any given sunday and the hope is he can improve/build on last year.
2023 was an interesting year where the top TD passes were Dak at 36, Love at 32, Purdy at 31, and Goff at 30. Baker ranked 7th
in 2022, it was Aaron Rodgers with 26. Another low performance. in 2021, the 7th ranked QB was Josh Allen with 36. in 2020, it was Big Ben with 33. So im thinking Baker needs to average 2 a game or 34 total next year to show we've got ourselves a franchise guy.
With Improved o-line, and adding a competent/complimentary RB, it’s more likely to see something like what you list as a ceiling.For the fans who excuse Baker's poor performance years because "he's had a different OC almost every year," why are you so sure he's the Bucs' best option this year with a NEW OC from last year?
For fans seeking to minimize Mayfield’s accomplishments so they can make the case for some invisible player to be named later. While at Cleveland he had one year that was off-track, and one that was due to injury. Carolina is the house Tepper built, as Tepper continues his goal to become the new Daniel Snyder.
With Baker, you can point to consistent winning seasons going back to his time as a Heisman winning walk-on at Oklahoma, Cleveland, LA, and Tampa.
It’s silliness to suggest he’s the problem. He’s not. He will be fine. He’s not Mahomes, but 31 other QB’s aren’t either.
Thankfully, we Buc fans don’t have to rely on Kyle, or some other mystical unicorn/PTBNL. Should we re-sign Baker Mike & AWJ, we’ll go as far as an improved o-line & the defense will take us.
The problem in Tampa last year, was not Baker. Barring injury, that an improved line/run-game should insure - both priorities for the draft - will only serve to bolster, consistency.
nobody should take the 2022 Baker season seriously. He was traded in July of that year. Most QBs sign in March and much more time to learn the playbook and gain chemistry with players. So while the Baker haters can say, he was ass in 2022, he really wasn't given a great opportunity there. It be different if he was traded several months earlier but need to be level headed of the assessment there. I essentially throw it away.
what should be judged is his time in Cleveland and he had a good rookie year followed up with a dud in 2019 and a rebound in 2020 and ok if you want to throw 2021 out to injury but Baker's ceiling is he has not surpassed 28 touchdown passes. Is that his ceiling? Can he do better? My hope is that he can. How he performed in 2023 was good but NOT great. So is he a guy worthy of the #1 overall pick or a mid level QB. I'd currently rank him anywhere from 14 to 20 on any given sunday and the hope is he can improve/build on last year.
2023 was an interesting year where the top TD passes were Dak at 36, Love at 32, Purdy at 31, and Goff at 30. Baker ranked 7th
in 2022, it was Aaron Rodgers with 26. Another low performance. in 2021, the 7th ranked QB was Josh Allen with 36. in 2020, it was Big Ben with 33. So im thinking Baker needs to average 2 a game or 34 total next year to show we've got ourselves a franchise guy.
However, I read an interesting stat shared on JBF site:
“…FS1 recently shared a stat that might be of interest. Twice in the past four seasons, Mayfield has had 25 passing touchdowns and 10 or less picks. Only six quarterbacks can make that claim and Mayfield did it with different clubs and playcallers.
That’s not a coincidence. He’s also won two playoff games with two different teams in that span.”
If you give him some protection & talent, he gives really good production, especially for a mid-level QB.
Baker also allows you to bolster the defense, again this season, with the first round draft pick (preferably at either edge or DB).
hey man, you don't have to sell me on Baker. He won me over in week 1 with his guts to win that Vikings game. Then, obviously how he played in the playoffs only put the exclamation point on his comeback year.
i just understand the hesitancy on some including myself not want to go overboard with his contract. In my mind, he still has a lot to prove and a contract in the $30M range is tops in my opinion of what he should get. He hasn't yet shown in his career that he can build off the prior year. I am hopeful he can do that in Tampa but his contract should factor in his inconstancy.
i think the Baker situation has almost become a polarizing political issue. It seems to me that people have chosen a side and are all in on it. I probably put it in 3 camps
1 - Anybody but Baker camp. These are the fans that don't really have a good solution to replace Baker. They mention pie in the sky, fairy tale, "why not go with the back-up" half pregnant recommendations but really don't appear educated enough on the Bucs options in terms of draft and free agency and thus result to bashing Baker without an alternative
2 - Baker Bros - those of us that are suggesting he is the franchise QB without question. Those that claim he is better than Prescott and Lamar. (Hell, i even argue the point from his playoff success versus those) but some of you are over the top. I think some even followed him over here from Cleveland.
3 - Realist - Of course, my narcasistic self puts myself in this camp but it's those that realize Baker had a good year, BUT not GREAT, and that a cautiously optimistic view that he can build off his first year with the Bucs. Also realize that given our draft status and whats available in free agency, Baker is our best option. Sure, he's a top 15 QB so unfortunately we have not yet found our franchise QB; but then again, other than one team in this league, who can comfortable say they got the right guy in the position for the next 10 years?
Would hope most by now sit in camp 3...but again due to the "polarizing politics" it looks' like we got a lot in 1 and 2 still. I mean shit, the fact that some are hoping the Bucs dont resign Baker is all you need to know there.
I see where you are, sorry if it came off as trying to argue. I actually was building off of your premise, while at the same time adding a data point or two to illustrate we don’t have much space to complain.
Getting the GOAT (something I doubt anyone was against at this point), left us in a position to either blow it all up, or leverage the talent that remained, re-load, and move forward.
You broke down the polarization pretty well. I would add to it that there may be some Buc fans that wanted to blow it all up to position us to draft another shiny new franchise QB. Long term Buc fans should know the pitfalls of pinning the franchise hopes on a premium draft pick.
Good post. I don’t know that Baker is a 10 year bet, but I believe he is a great 3 to 5 year option.
This organization - like the majority of successful NFL franchises - have never figured out how to find a franchise QB in the draft, but they have occasionally found competitive/proven QB’s that can get their teams in the playoffs.
That scenario, to me, is the most likely. Once you’re in, anything can happen. Who knows, we may find something more on the way to that destination.
Interesting breakdown on QB Power rankings for 2024 - would argue with the ranking of Baker - but not too much. I'd say they undervalued him by somewhere between 3 to 5 spots (rankd him behind Kirk Cousins, Geno Smith, Anthony Richardson, and Kyler Murray) - but won't argue with the specific analysis.
Ranking Every NFL Quarterback Entering 2024 Offseason | The 33rd Team
FeelingDangerous isn't going to like this article. They have Baker behind both Jackson and Tua.
Lol, nah. Saw this one a few days ago. It's about what you'd expect. Though how Kyler is higher than Baker is pretty puzzling based just off their numbers in 2023.
But it wasn't that long ago that most of these analysts consistently had Stafford ranked worse than Dak and Cousins, and I laughed my butt off every time I read it. I mean, who on God's Green Earth could watch tape of Stafford/Cousins/Dak and ever come to the conclusion that Stafford was the worst of the three? The only thing funnier was some of the worst talking heads like Rob Parker (another guy, not named Acho, can't remember his name now) doubling down on that nonsense for multiple years. It was basically the "analysts" looking at the Ws and Ls and making a judgement without any other context. Parker went so far as to say he didn't see Stafford's arm talent (rofl). I mean, I never really took Parker seriously anyway, but wth?
And I think it was PFF that had Mahomes ranked below Cousins at the beginning of the regular season a few years ago, lol.
These 'analysts' get it wildly wrong all the time. Kind of how meteorologists can be wrong 50% of the time and still keep their jobs. It is what it is.
Based just on the stats and the metrics from 2023, without any other context, sure, Baker is a mid-teens QB. In 2023. With a rookie OC. Without a running game for most of the season. In an offense designed to be run-centric. With a pretty porous OL. Following a living legend, in fact the GOAT himself.
And I'm not saying any of that should be taken into consideration when making these 'lists.' Gotta draw a line somewhere, I get it. But anyone with eyes should be able to see that Baker is better than Kyler. And Anthony Richardson, who didn't even play 5 games and has zero stats/metrics to back that claim up? Geno is obviously the 'feel good' story of the bunch.
But there's no empirical evidence that he performed better than Baker in 2023. Or that he's been a better QB for his entire career. He's had literally just one statistically better season, predicated by 8 seasons of meh to terrible.
But we have to be in on Geno's story after the crazy history of his career, and the stellar season he had last year.
You look at the obvious flaws to the list such as the above, and it becomes pretty clear that the 'analyst' was speaking more from emotional bias than actual analysis. Which is fine; it's the off-season and they have to write something that'll generate clicks. hell, I clicked on it as soon as I saw it, and I knew from previous experience that it was going to have some hot takes. I'm just shocked that they didn't rank Mahomes 3rd or something like they did for a couple seasons early in his career.
Nicely said @FeelingDangerous.
As I said, I thought Baker was legitimately undervalued by about 5 spots…maybe more, but I’ll give the nay-sayers some benefit of the doubt.
That’s ok, Bake needs some negativity to feed off of for next season. This type loves rubbing their noses in it after ‘proving it’ - again.
Signing Winfield, and being ok to over-paying him, while not Baker? Means you either think someone currently on the depth chart - can do as good a job - or you don’t care about winning.
Sounds more like a straw man to me.
Who has mentioned that they are wanting to over-pay Winfield and not Baker?
Actually, it sounds more like you'd happily over-pay for Baker, while skimming some better players.
All this being said, yes, as it pertains to priority re-signs and extensions; it's easily:
- Wirfs
- Winfield Jr.
Not sure how that's up for debate.
Multiple Pro-Bowls, AP honors, Super Bowls winners, absolutely elite, and both considered to be arguably the best at their positions.
Baker doesn't check a single one of those boxes.
Coming from the king of strawmen, I’ll take your word for it.Signing Winfield, and being ok to over-paying him, while not Baker? Means you either think someone currently on the depth chart - can do as good a job - or you don’t care about winning.
Sounds more like a straw man to me.
Who has mentioned that they are wanting to over-pay Winfield and not Baker?
Actually, it sounds more like you'd happily over-pay for Baker, while skimming some better players.
All this being said, yes, as it pertains to priority re-signs and extensions; it's easily:
- Wirfs
- Winfield Jr.
Not sure how that's up for debate.
Multiple Pro-Bowls, AP honors, Super Bowls winners, absolutely elite, and both considered to be arguably the best at their positions.
Baker doesn't check a single one of those boxes.
Wirffs will be an extension that will create room. Winfield will be tagged.
It’s not like you’ve been the harbinger of reality regarding QB value. What you have posted as your top salary/‘overpaying’ - is under the minimum franchise tag.