Bowles expresses a sentiment I've often believed reflects his mindset: “I can figure things out enough to keep us competitive on defense.” As a coach, I understand why he says this, but I also recognize how this approach could harm the team in the long run.
While Bowles is a capable leader, he isn't quite in the defensive minded league of Belichick or Buddy Ryan. To excel defensively, he needs standout players.
During the 2020 Super Bowl run, his defensive line was among the best in the NFL, featuring Shaq and JPP on the edges, with Suh and Vita anchoring the interior. It was a formidable lineup. He had a prime David and a young White before he started playing it safe to avoid big hits. With a healthy Davis, and a rookie sensation in Winfield, the defense was stacked.
This mindset is likely why his defense has gradually declined over the past four years. In today's NFL, it’s essential to have elite talent on defense to contend with offenses that benefit from favorable rules. The McVay and Shanahan schemes can thrive with less talented quarterbacks and receivers, but defenses struggle without top-tier pass rushers and coverage specialists.
It’s not the 80s or 90s, Todd. It’s time to revamp your defense. We’ll score plenty this year.
I do not think I would call past his prime JPP, Gholston and Suh elite in 2020. Shaq and Vea sure.
No great defense has elite players across every position on the line unless we are talking about some super rare teams (eg Giants SB team).
Bucs need competent players across entire the line for sure.
Diaby, Kancey, Hall and Vea hit all the checkmarks. The problem was you didn't have an NFL average player ala Greg Spires on the other side to help out Diaby or clean up what Kancey/Vea started on the inside. That is where Reddick comes in.
In fact Nelson was outplaying JTS and Nelson should have received more snaps and the same with Braswell needed to receive more snaps. Coach Edwards is out of the picture now and the Bucs will finally have players in a rotation that deserve snaps and Foote will make sure of it.
The decline on defense is really more so because you need NFL average players on the frontline trenches IMO. Along with NFL average players in the secondary.
Sprinkle in a few elite players and that is how good and great defenses are formed.
Bowles expresses a sentiment I've often believed reflects his mindset: “I can figure things out enough to keep us competitive on defense.”
The team's mindset, you mean? Right?
From the 2024 season all the way back to when he took over fans here talk often like Bowles is holding the team back (2022 he "killed Brady" lol) when in fact IN THE TEAM's EYES he's carrying one side of the team WHILE IT DIGS IT SELF OUT OF THE SUPER BOWL DEAD CAP SCENARIO.
Its not his mindset, it is what he brought to the table IN THE TEAM's VIEW . . that at some level he could fake it on defense while the Bucs mostly rebuilt the offense, and got past the Brady era dead cap.
It caught up to them last year with no depth on D. Licht said this right after the season:
“It’s just kind of the cycle that we’re in with this team,” general manager Jason Licht said a few days before the Commanders game. “Two years ago when we had the — I don’t want to say rebuild — but we knew it was going to take some time to fill every spot on the defense. Is there some spots that we could add to? Of course. But it takes time.
“And what he has done with what we have, I think, has been remarkable.”
This mindset is likely why his defense has gradually declined over the past four years.
No . . the defense has gradually declined over the last four years (while the offense has ascended) because on defense we went from effective White (Super bowl year) all the way down to Britt. We traded Davis. We replaced JPP and Barrett with a 3rd rounder and a failure. We never replaced LVD and he is MUCH older. We had special teamers as starting DBs
Surely Bowles is not saying "I don't want talent" but according to Licht he was definitely part of the plan to get past all the dead cap . . . so ABSOLUTELY, they have been relying on Bowles to "figure things out" on defense and right down to successfully hiring two rookie coordinators.
This is why all the Bowles angst expressed on this board has always been out of touch with the reality inside OBP.
I do not think I would call past his prime JPP . . elite in 2020.
You're sort of contradicting yourself, right?
In 2020 JPP has maybe his third most productive year ever? fourth? He had 9.5 sacks. Why if he was "past his prime?" Because he was playing opposite Barrett in his prime and White blitzing and LVD cleaning up everytihng etc etc etc. Davis and Dean and SMB and AWJ balling . .
This year there is no prime Barrett and no primetime White and LVD is OLD (and getting beaten on some of those 3rd down stops he used to make) and no Davis and Dean and SMB and AWJ balling out.
This year instead of JPP we have THIRD ROUND Diaby and he had 4.5 sacks and maybe the other side generated about the same and Britt . . . etc
A team is a team, a unit is a unit.
The talent drop off from the 2020 defense is PROFOUND . . especially when you have a mostly inured AWJ and White head totally out of place and 3 or 4 different guys platooning the other LB spot
now throw in a bunch of ST guys as starting DBs
ESPN's take . . the outsider's view of the Bucs
Yates claiming the Bucs will take stud Georgia safety Malaki Starks in Round 1 followed by Notre Dame cornerback Benjamin Morrison in Round 2.
My point is Bowles feels he has the defensive prowess to overcome having less talented players on defense. Over the past few years, he has seemed to lean into this approach, especially given our limited salary cap space, which makes his push to "get the offense going" understandable. However, the deficiencies in our defense have reached a point where we can no longer afford to wait for improvement; it has to happen now.
I didn't mention Gholston because he has consistently been just an average player. While JPP and Suh had moments in 2020 where they dominated spurts of games. Hall, who you included in your evaluation, simply does not measure up to Vea, Suh, or even Kancey. You noted the absence of a player like Greg Spires opposite Diaby last year, but I would argue that Diaby is much more comparable to Spires than to a Simeon Rice.
You also pointed out JTS and mentioned that Nelson outperformed him, which I completely agree with. However, it's important to note that JTS has always been a favorite of Bowles. By the end of every season, we see Nelson starting to take snaps away from him.
I acknowledge the need for solid, average players to fill the gaps left by a lack of elite talent. The core issue, though, is that we currently lack those elite players on defense. It's crucial that we continue to focus on addressing our defensive deficiencies.
I do not think I would call past his prime JPP . . elite in 2020.
You're sort of contradicting yourself, right?
In 2020 JPP has maybe his third most productive year ever? fourth? He had 9.5 sacks. Why if he was "past his prime?" Because he was playing opposite Barrett in his prime and White blitzing and LVD cleaning up everytihng etc etc etc. Davis and Dean and SMB and AWJ balling . .
This year there is no prime Barrett and no primetime White and LVD is OLD (and getting beaten on some of those 3rd down stops he used to make) and no Davis and Dean and SMB and AWJ balling out.
This year instead of JPP we have THIRD ROUND Diaby and he had 4.5 sacks and maybe the other side generated about the same and Britt . . . etc
A team is a team, a unit is a unit.
The talent drop off from the 2020 defense is PROFOUND . . especially when you have a mostly inured AWJ and White head totally out of place and 3 or 4 different guys platooning the other LB spot
now throw in a bunch of ST guys as starting DBs
JPP wasn't elite 2020 IMO as he was past his prime so no contradiction. He was the Spires of the defense which is fine but calling him elite is stretching it
I also disagree with the idea of a "talent drop off". The secondary on paper has more talent than the 2020 team. It is not a simple apples to apples comparison IMO.
My point is Bowles feels he has the defensive prowess to overcome having less talented players on defense. Over the past few years, he has seemed to lean into this approach, especially given our limited salary cap space, which makes his push to "get the offense going" understandable. However, the deficiencies in our defense have reached a point where we can no longer afford to wait for improvement; it has to happen now.
I didn't mention Gholston because he has consistently been just an average player. While JPP and Suh had moments in 2020 where they dominated spurts of games. Hall, who you included in your evaluation, simply does not measure up to Vea, Suh, or even Kancey. You noted the absence of a player like Greg Spires opposite Diaby last year, but I would argue that Diaby is much more comparable to Spires than to a Simeon Rice.
You also pointed out JTS and mentioned that Nelson outperformed him, which I completely agree with. However, it's important to note that JTS has always been a favorite of Bowles. By the end of every season, we see Nelson starting to take snaps away from him.
I acknowledge the need for solid, average players to fill the gaps left by a lack of elite talent. The core issue, though, is that we currently lack those elite players on defense. It's crucial that we continue to focus on addressing our defensive deficiencies.
I do agree that Diaby is closer to Spires than Rice but that is why adding Reddick to be the Rice is the key for this defense to be unlocked up front.
JTS while a favorite of Bowles on passing downs and he wasn't really part of any exotic stunts. Also, coach Edwards was the biggest advocate of JTS while Bowles is a bigger fan of Nelson truthfully because Nelson generates splash plays in limited game time. So it was not surprising that Nelson received more snaps and also Nelson tends to do his job and be in the "right place" as Bowles puts it.
Given the Bucs draft position the last few years it is kind of hard to draft elite players so the goal is to really put together an NFL average defense first with competent starters and then try to find those elite or very good players.
Rice and JPP came after the Bucs defenses respectively of the 2000s and 2020s was built in all honesty so that is why adding Reddick now is okay but really the Bucs need a few more competent players in the right spots to really gel as a unit.
Bowles expresses a sentiment I've often believed reflects his mindset: “I can figure things out enough to keep us competitive on defense.”
The team's mindset, you mean? Right?
From the 2024 season all the way back to when he took over fans here talk often like Bowles is holding the team back (2022 he "killed Brady" lol) when in fact IN THE TEAM's EYES he's carrying one side of the team WHILE IT DIGS IT SELF OUT OF THE SUPER BOWL DEAD CAP SCENARIO.
Its not his mindset, it is what he brought to the table IN THE TEAM's VIEW . . that at some level he could fake it on defense while the Bucs mostly rebuilt the offense, and got past the Brady era dead cap.
It caught up to them last year with no depth on D. Licht said this right after the season:
“It’s just kind of the cycle that we’re in with this team,” general manager Jason Licht said a few days before the Commanders game. “Two years ago when we had the — I don’t want to say rebuild — but we knew it was going to take some time to fill every spot on the defense. Is there some spots that we could add to? Of course. But it takes time.
“And what he has done with what we have, I think, has been remarkable.”
This mindset is likely why his defense has gradually declined over the past four years.
No . . the defense has gradually declined over the last four years (while the offense has ascended) because on defense we went from effective White (Super bowl year) all the way down to Britt. We traded Davis. We replaced JPP and Barrett with a 3rd rounder and a failure. We never replaced LVD and he is MUCH older. We had special teamers as starting DBs
Surely Bowles is not saying "I don't want talent" but according to Licht he was definitely part of the plan to get past all the dead cap . . . so ABSOLUTELY, they have been relying on Bowles to "figure things out" on defense and right down to successfully hiring two rookie coordinators.
This is why all the Bowles angst expressed on this board has always been out of touch with the reality inside OBP.
A good bit of the Bowles angst expressed on this board has been related to in-game decisions which we've discussed ad nauseum. The Bucs can add all kinds of talent on the defense, but progress will be stunted unless Bowles makes MUCH BETTER in-game decisions. Everyone is well aware of the talent deficiencies and injuries which held the defense back last season, but the in-game decisions is a whole other issue with Bowles.
Could be coach speak at this time of year. They could and not many would be shocked if they had a heavy defense draft considering it was a weakness of the team last year. They should also look to see any cap cuts that could help there too.
Bowles expresses a sentiment I've often believed reflects his mindset: “I can figure things out enough to keep us competitive on defense.”
The team's mindset, you mean? Right?
From the 2024 season all the way back to when he took over fans here talk often like Bowles is holding the team back (2022 he "killed Brady" lol) when in fact IN THE TEAM's EYES he's carrying one side of the team WHILE IT DIGS IT SELF OUT OF THE SUPER BOWL DEAD CAP SCENARIO.
Its not his mindset, it is what he brought to the table IN THE TEAM's VIEW . . that at some level he could fake it on defense while the Bucs mostly rebuilt the offense, and got past the Brady era dead cap.
It caught up to them last year with no depth on D. Licht said this right after the season:
“It’s just kind of the cycle that we’re in with this team,” general manager Jason Licht said a few days before the Commanders game. “Two years ago when we had the — I don’t want to say rebuild — but we knew it was going to take some time to fill every spot on the defense. Is there some spots that we could add to? Of course. But it takes time.
“And what he has done with what we have, I think, has been remarkable.”
This mindset is likely why his defense has gradually declined over the past four years.
No . . the defense has gradually declined over the last four years (while the offense has ascended) because on defense we went from effective White (Super bowl year) all the way down to Britt. We traded Davis. We replaced JPP and Barrett with a 3rd rounder and a failure. We never replaced LVD and he is MUCH older. We had special teamers as starting DBs
Surely Bowles is not saying "I don't want talent" but according to Licht he was definitely part of the plan to get past all the dead cap . . . so ABSOLUTELY, they have been relying on Bowles to "figure things out" on defense and right down to successfully hiring two rookie coordinators.
This is why all the Bowles angst expressed on this board has always been out of touch with the reality inside OBP.
A good bit of the Bowles angst expressed on this board has been related to in-game decisions which we've discussed ad nauseum. The Bucs can add all kinds of talent on the defense, but progress will be stunted unless Bowles makes MUCH BETTER in-game decisions. Everyone is well aware of the talent deficiencies and injuries which held the defense back last season, but the in-game decisions is a whole other issue with Bowles.
Agree. He has made some bone headed in game decisions in previous seasons too. Self reflection is required for coach bowles.
Bowles expresses a sentiment I've often believed reflects his mindset: “I can figure things out enough to keep us competitive on defense.”
The team's mindset, you mean? Right?
From the 2024 season all the way back to when he took over fans here talk often like Bowles is holding the team back (2022 he "killed Brady" lol) when in fact IN THE TEAM's EYES he's carrying one side of the team WHILE IT DIGS IT SELF OUT OF THE SUPER BOWL DEAD CAP SCENARIO.
Its not his mindset, it is what he brought to the table IN THE TEAM's VIEW . . that at some level he could fake it on defense while the Bucs mostly rebuilt the offense, and got past the Brady era dead cap.
It caught up to them last year with no depth on D. Licht said this right after the season:
“It’s just kind of the cycle that we’re in with this team,” general manager Jason Licht said a few days before the Commanders game. “Two years ago when we had the — I don’t want to say rebuild — but we knew it was going to take some time to fill every spot on the defense. Is there some spots that we could add to? Of course. But it takes time.
“And what he has done with what we have, I think, has been remarkable.”
This mindset is likely why his defense has gradually declined over the past four years.
No . . the defense has gradually declined over the last four years (while the offense has ascended) because on defense we went from effective White (Super bowl year) all the way down to Britt. We traded Davis. We replaced JPP and Barrett with a 3rd rounder and a failure. We never replaced LVD and he is MUCH older. We had special teamers as starting DBs
Surely Bowles is not saying "I don't want talent" but according to Licht he was definitely part of the plan to get past all the dead cap . . . so ABSOLUTELY, they have been relying on Bowles to "figure things out" on defense and right down to successfully hiring two rookie coordinators.
This is why all the Bowles angst expressed on this board has always been out of touch with the reality inside OBP.
A good bit of the Bowles angst expressed on this board has been related to in-game decisions which we've discussed ad nauseum. The Bucs can add all kinds of talent on the defense, but progress will be stunted unless Bowles makes MUCH BETTER in-game decisions. Everyone is well aware of the talent deficiencies and injuries which held the defense back last season, but the in-game decisions is a whole other issue with Bowles.
Yeah the play calling was the biggest issue on defense last season and not a lack of talent. No one expected the Bucs to be an elite defensive unit but they had the talent to be NFL average and the failed to do even that.
Failure to force turnovers or punts can't be put all on talent as scheme and play calling is part of it too. Teams have figured out Bowles pressure packages and that is why it is kind iffy to say it is ALL on lack of talent.
One more point is that the middle of the defense was a weakness last year not really because a lack of talent. A year before Winfield Jr and Britt were balling and Whitehead had a career year with the jets.
When your stud safeties play like crap and Britt who was an average starter plays way below average no wonder teams exploited the middle. And for that reason I can't really say with a straight face that it was a lack of talent. Maybe Britt has that excuse but Winfield Jr off that monster contract and Whitehad do not have that excuse.
LVD can do only so much to cover his assignments on top of others and for that reason if LVD is asked to do less this year compared to last season I wouldn't be surprised if he does better.
That is why having competent players next to other players can elevate a person's game. Put T. Smith next to Winfield Jr and Dennis next to LVD and that probably improves the defense right there.
You are cherry picking a meaningless quote during the silly season. Bowles has plenty of quotes you can use about picking defensive players. He probably just wants to keep the other teams guessing with what they'll do with that first pick. Of course they might choose offense, but is Bowles going to be the one leading the charge for that? I don't think so. That would be Licht going with BPA. You are reading way too much into that quote. Anything at all is too much.Bowles expresses a sentiment I've often believed reflects his mindset: “I can figure things out enough to keep us competitive on defense.” As a coach, I understand why he says this, but I also recognize how this approach could harm the team in the long run.
the middle of the defense was a weakness last year not really because a lack of talent.
And yet they are all gone lol
they immediately moved on from multiple LBers not named LVD
they moved on from their safety
the only survivor is AWJ who played injured most of the season.
Britt, who you described as an average starter is not only gone but he’s likely a reserve.
and this is before the draft
