Anyone with eye balls and no bias could watch the Bucs and tell you our secondary was putrid. Combo of injuries, talent, and play calling.
Arguing otherwise and calling it "average" is so fucking dumb
I watched the games. Agree with the other commenters that the 2024 Bucs defense was found wanting. Seriously wanting. I really don't understand the undying love for Todd Bowles and his defense. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
I watched the games. Agree with the other commenters that the 2024 Bucs defense was found wanting. Seriously wanting. I really don't understand the undying love for Todd Bowles and his defense. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
He thinks being a contrarian makes him smart.
It's one thing to say he gets shit on too much or say he had limited talent.
But JC is a bridge too far
1. Bucs margin of regulation win was very high. 17.3 points per non OT win. I was going through some of the top teams and I couldn't find anyone higher. Meaning Bucs had big leads teams were just throwing all 4th qtr. The Bucs number was the same as the Chiefs and Vikings COMBINED.
So the offense was scoring a lot of points? I'll be damned...
They must have had a decent playcaller.
2. Inability to close games out with the run. For example, Bucs averaged 2.5 yards per play in the 4th qtr vs the Lions, which led to Lions having 20 4th qtr pass plays. Falcons had 14 pass plays after Bucky's fumble. Vs the Eagles we were up 14 or 17 the entire 4th qtr but some reason Coen was still 57% pass with 4 incompletions. Only a 3.7 ypc in the 4th qtr also. Led to the Eagles having 16 pass plays in the 4th qtr. Rachaad White cannot get anymore carries in these situations.
This is not a reason why teams passed a lot and passed a lot successfully on the Buccaneers defense, but it is yet another example of poor analysis on your part.
3. Bucs pass defense was just average while the run defense was above average. Teams would be more inclined to run the ball.
Outside of then run defense being above average, more bad analysis from you. The pass defense was one of the worst in the league and the run defense was one the best in the league, which is why the team ended up with an average overall defense. Teams were not more inclined to run the ball - it's the exact opposite.
Teams were more inclined to throw the ball because the pass defense sucked and the opposing team was playing from behind fairly often because of the high-scoring offense lead by DUUUUUVAAAAAALLLLLLLLL - both of which your dumbass continues to argue against. Those are the reasons the pass attempts are so high.
You've been thoroughly whipped on this point by damn-near everyone. I'll go back to pointing and laughing.
In the 7 comfortable wins the defense only allowed 13.4 points per game.
The inability to run the ball at the end of the game undoubtedly led to the opponents having more pass attempts than they should. Lions and Falcons games are examples that everyone wants to pretend didn't happen.
Speaking of inability, you don't the ability to understand statisitics. The run defense was 10th in ypc against, which is good, not one of the best. The overall ranking was 4th because they faced the 3rd least attempts.
I watched the games. Agree with the other commenters that the 2024 Bucs defense was found wanting. Seriously wanting. I really don't understand the undying love for Todd Bowles and his defense. Whatever floats your boat I guess.
It's not a love for Bowles. I'm just pointing out the flaws in the narrative that the offense was the only reason for the team's success and the defense is to blame for all the negatives. The defense wasn't as bad as people think and deserves some credit while the offense was culpable in many of the team's losses. Doesn't mean the offense wasn't good and the defense doesn't need help.
In the 7 comfortable wins the defense only allowed 13.4 points per game.
Sweet. The defense played well in 7 games. Now do the other 11.
The inability to run the ball at the end of the game undoubtedly led to the opponents having more pass attempts than they should. Lions and Falcons games are examples that everyone wants to pretend didn't happen.
You think these are good points. They aren’t. Nobody is pretending the Lions game didn’t happen. It was arguably the best defensive performance of the season. And both Falcons games are two of the worst defensive games of the season.
Speaking of inability, you don't the ability to understand statisitics. The run defense was 10th in ypc against, which is good, not one of the best. The overall ranking was 4th because they faced the 3rd least attempts.
Yet again, you offer poor analysis of the stats. It’s a calling-card of yours. The third least rushing attempts was a combination of good run defense, shitty pass defense, and an offense scoring a lot of points. When you combine all of this with the 5th least punts forced in the NFL, you’re going to have a shit-ton of opponent pass attempts. The pass defense wasn’t close to average, no matter how much you’d like to say they were. Your persuasive arguments suck.
This stuff isn’t difficult.
In the 7 comfortable wins the defense only allowed 13.4 points per game.
Sweet. The defense played well in 7 games. Now do the other 11.
The inability to run the ball at the end of the game undoubtedly led to the opponents having more pass attempts than they should. Lions and Falcons games are examples that everyone wants to pretend didn't happen.
You think these are good points. They aren’t. Nobody is pretending the Lions game didn’t happen. It was arguably the best defensive performance of the season. And both Falcons games are two of the worst defensive games of the season.
Speaking of inability, you don't the ability to understand statisitics. The run defense was 10th in ypc against, which is good, not one of the best. The overall ranking was 4th because they faced the 3rd least attempts.
Yet again, you offer poor analysis of the stats. It’s a calling-card of yours. The third least rushing attempts was a combination of good run defense, shitty pass defense, and an offense scoring a lot of points. When you combine all of this with the 5th least punts forced in the NFL, you’re going to have a shit-ton of opponent pass attempts. The pass defense wasn’t close to average, no matter how much you’d like to say they were. Your persuasive arguments suck.
This stuff isn’t difficult.
We were talking about the multi-score wins. You gave a comment about the offense, but it was a combination of the offense and defense. Most of the wins were a combination of good offense and good defense. Most of the losses were offensive turnovers and bad defense. There are outliers in favor of both units though.
FireBowles literally said the only big defensive stop he can remember is the David INT.
We were talking about the multi-score wins.
No “we” weren’t. You made the clearly asinine statement that the pass defense was average. I mocked your asinine comment. Your predictable poor analysis followed, along with the inevitable ass whipping that came after that.
This was my fault for engaging your dumbass. Lolz @ the pass defense being average. That was really all that needed to be said.
FireBowles literally said the only big defensive stop he can remember is the David INT.
I mean you can easily go back and re-read what I wrote without cherry picking.
I mentioned the Carolina punch out "stop" and the Dallas stop.
I did forget about the Lions game, which was their best defensive performance but largely it was just the red zone defense and specifically 4th down. It was a great game and really the only example of a game where the defense carried the offense. And even then it's debatable... Because they don't force punts or 3 and outs.
We got stops vs Campbell's aggressive nature. Had they taken the points they'd win. Because the defense gave up a ton of yards, very few punts, very few turnovers, and very few 3 and outs.
It's well documented.
Which is to say, I think the defense got lucky.
Lions dominated the TOP and yards... By A LOT.
Because the offense was stuck and the defense can't get off the field. Their MO all year (bend don't break).
That game was a rare exception where Bowles successfully pulled off the bend don't break. The rest of the year it was a bend AND break.
And let's not kid ourselves. The schedule at the end of the year vs teams tanking MASSIVELY skewed the defense stats toward the "middle" as JC keeps saying.
Well yes playing the Panthers twice, Saints, Giants, and other shit teams will do that.
I'm just pointing out the flaws in the narrative that the offense was the only reason for the team's success and the defense is to blame for all the negatives.
JC with the Biggs-level bullspit strawman . . the ultimate sign of intellectual surrender
No one here says that offense is the only reason or the defense is to blame for all. You don't even say the reverse of that. Its just that your arguments have been APPROPRIATELY and predictably destroyed by every poster here so you make up a fake argument that you think you can defeat.
The offense was outstanding but also imperfect.
The defense was really bad in pass coverage and struggled to get off the field most times, but alos made plays too
FireBowles literally said the only big defensive stop he can remember is the David INT.
I mean you can easily go back and re-read what I wrote without cherry picking.
I mentioned the Carolina punch out "stop" and the Dallas stop.
I did forget about the Lions game, which was their best defensive performance but largely it was just the red zone defense and specifically 4th down. It was a great game and really the only example of a game where the defense carried the offense. And even then it's debatable... Because they don't force punts or 3 and outs.
We got stops vs Campbell's aggressive nature. Had they taken the points they'd win. Because the defense gave up a ton of yards, very few punts, very few turnovers, and very few 3 and outs.
It's well documented.
Which is to say, I think the defense got lucky.
Lions dominated the TOP and yards... By A LOT.
Because the offense was stuck and the defense can't get off the field. Their MO all year (bend don't break).
That game was a rare exception where Bowles successfully pulled off the bend don't break. The rest of the year it was a bend AND break.
And let's not kid ourselves. The schedule at the end of the year vs teams tanking MASSIVELY skewed the defense stats toward the "middle" as JC keeps saying.
Well yes playing the Panthers twice, Saints, Giants, and other shit teams will do that.
This sums up the ignornance of the anti-Bowles crowd perferctly. This is like swinging and missing, falling down and knocking yourself out.
This sums up the ignornance of the anti-Bowles crowd perferctly. This is like swinging and missing, falling down and knocking yourself out.
Responding without saying anything. What else should I expect from someone who thinks the Bucs secondary was good, Coen sucks, Tucker is elite, and all the other dumb shit you've said over the years.
You've shown us who you are... A troll with stupid takes.
This sums up the ignornance of the anti-Bowles crowd perferctly. This is like swinging and missing, falling down and knocking yourself out.
Responding without saying anything. What else should I expect from someone who thinks the Bucs secondary was good, Coen sucks, Tucker is elite, and all the other dumb shit you've said over the years.
You've shown us who you are... A troll with stupid takes.
You said it all.
What you guys do when you're losing arguments is make up things that I didn't say. I never said the secondary was good. In fact I want Asante Samuel Jr AND Starks. I merely pointed out that the pass defense was 15th in Net Yards Per Pass Attempt.
Typical FireBowles take: I want Bowles fired, but I "forgot" the defense beat the 15-2 Lions practically by themselves but it actually doesn't even count because blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaking of Tucker, the data I showed in the last post in that thread is not a good look for the pro-White/anti-Tucker crowd. Must be why nobody responded.
