Where would we be without the clutch defense?!?!?!
Wouldn't have won 10 games if the defense was as bad as most of you think it was. Offense has too much talent to have lapses where they self destruct for consecutive drives. This why they need to run the ball more, with real runs, like Bucky and Tucker, not jet sweeps. Only 24% of the offensive snaps were Bucky and Tucker carries, should be 50%.
The game you're bitching about they scored 27 points and the game winning TD despite more lapses in judgment from rookies.
Just put that in perspective. 27 points is the offense under performing...
So much talent? Cmon man.
Coen just called a great year and made our offense more than the sum of our parts.
You've got a journey man QB left for dead that came back to life with better coaching.
You have a third, fourth, and udfa picks at RB committee.
You have 2 great WRs who missed time, and a third round rookie that got better.
Our TE group is young and average.
The line is our strength.
You're trying to paint the offense as the undefeated Patriots team in terms of talent. Give me a fucking break.
Where would we be without the clutch defense?!?!?!
Wouldn't have won 10 games if the defense was as bad as most of you think it was. Offense has too much talent to have lapses where they self destruct for consecutive drives. This why they need to run the ball more, with real runs, like Bucky and Tucker, not jet sweeps. Only 24% of the offensive snaps were Bucky and Tucker carries, should be 50%.
The game you're bitching about they scored 27 points and the game winning TD despite more lapses in judgment from rookies.
Just put that in perspective. 27 points is the offense under performing...
So much talent? Cmon man.
Coen just called a great year and made our offense more than the sum of our parts.
You've got a journey man QB left for dead that came back to life with better coaching.
You have a third, fourth, and udfa picks at RB committee.
You have 2 great WRs who missed time, and a third round rookie that got better.
Our TE group is young and average.
The line is our strength.
You're trying to paint the offense as the undefeated Patriots team in terms of talent. Give me a fucking break.
I would grade the Bucs offense like this
Wirfs- A+
Goedeke- A+
Godwin- A
Evans- A
Irving- A
Tucker- A
Baker- B+
Mauch- B
McMillan- B
Otton- C
White- C
Barton- D
Durham- D
Bredeson- F
Shepard- F
Barton will get better but Bredeson won't, he's just a really unathletic. Barton's problem was mostly game speed. He'll see it slower in year 2. I don't think he'll ever been an elite guy though, which is what you want from a 1st round center.
TE is an elephant in the room for the Bucs. Otton, Durham and Culp can catch passes but they can't block. Kieft can block like a lineman but isn't a threat receiving. I still value the blocking over the receiving. Kieft should play over Durham and honestly over Otton in some situations. On one of Kieft's few snaps vs the Saints Week 18 he oblitered a LB at the point of attack and Bucky went 25.
Again, Bucs offense was too pass centric last year. They have the tackles and backs to lead the NFL in rushing. Mauch is more than fine and Barton will be better. They should be top 3 in run attempts at worst, ideally #1. 10th is ridiculous considering there were only 2 games we were out of in the 4th qtr.
This is exactly where I am on the draft.But if he has to put Izien or Merriweather out there he can make it work.
Because it worked SO WELL last season!
LOL, kidding but even if you take Bowles comments at face value (not posturing) their actual offseason actions so far suggest they are trying to solidify the defense and I think his point is that the Bucs DEFENSIVE needs can be filled mostly by quality 2nd and 3rd day and beyond guys ESPECIALLY IN A DEEP DRAFT . . unlike LT and QB . . .
Although what is the over/under on the Bucs drafting either a QB or an LT lol? I think their most pressing needs on OFFENSE (if any) were all depth, so WR swing tackle and maybe G, but they even resigned Sua and Heck already, so maybe WR is the best bet at an non-defense premium pick?
The draft is such a wildcard its tough to say. Lots of chatter about a move back, but in a deep draft?
I agree with most of this rebuttal, except I think you underestimate Mayfield a bit. Success with the Browns (and they haven’t been able to find another “average” QB to duplicate what he was able to do), and then the Bucs, under successive coordinators, kinda proves that.
Where would we be without the clutch defense?!?!?!
Wouldn't have won 10 games if the defense was as bad as most of you think it was. Offense has too much talent to have lapses where they self destruct for consecutive drives. This why they need to run the ball more, with real runs, like Bucky and Tucker, not jet sweeps. Only 24% of the offensive snaps were Bucky and Tucker carries, should be 50%.
The game you're bitching about they scored 27 points and the game winning TD despite more lapses in judgment from rookies.
Just put that in perspective. 27 points is the offense under performing...
So much talent? Cmon man.
Coen just called a great year and made our offense more than the sum of our parts.
You've got a journey man QB left for dead that came back to life with better coaching.
You have a third, fourth, and udfa picks at RB committee.
You have 2 great WRs who missed time, and a third round rookie that got better.
Our TE group is young and average.
The line is our strength.
You're trying to paint the offense as the undefeated Patriots team in terms of talent. Give me a fucking break.
But I especially like the assessment of the TE, and WR…but I think we’re at the point where we could maximize the offense with some reliable outside speed in this draft, or a better TE.
The d-line looks to have been solidified with the addition of Reddick (remains to be seen which version of Reddick shows up on the field for the Bucs, but Yaya’s power rush and the stout middle, seems to give him the license to pin his ears back again)…the secondary needs help - but looks like the talent is available in 1st - 3rd round… and I already like your idea of building depth at DT.
It looks like we have the chance to fix the defense in this draft… but I’m not so sure we won’t be shocked with a TE/WR addition to address the holes on offense.
Again, Bucs offense was too pass centric last year.
I think the Bucs offense was 4th in rushing yards. The three teams above them all have QB with designed runs. Mayfield mostly ran by play breakdown
So the Bucs had 483 rushing attempts for 2536 yards.
The Ravens are 554 for 3189 BUT 139 of those attempts and 915 of those yards are Jackson. Not all design runs, but certainly more than the Bucs. The NET is 415 attempts and 2274 yards.
Even if you adjust out Mayfield runs the Bucs are roughly 423 attempts for 2100 yards.
Again, Bucs offense was too pass centric last year.
I think the Bucs offense was 4th in rushing yards. The three teams above them all have QB with designed runs. Mayfield mostly ran by play breakdown
So the Bucs had 483 rushing attempts for 2536 yards.
The Ravens are 554 for 3189 BUT 139 of those attempts and 915 of those yards are Jackson. Not all design runs, but certainly more than the Bucs. The NET is 415 attempts and 2274 yards.
Even if you adjust out Mayfield runs the Bucs are roughly 423 attempts for 2100 yards.
None of that accounts for the run/pass calls. 3rd in yards per carry but 10th in attempts. It's too few attempts. Bucs offense stalled when they went too pass happy. For example the Dallas game. They were 30th in yards per carry against and in the 1st qtr Coen was 80% pass and we scored 0 points. Then on the 3rd drive he commits to the run and we score a TD pretty easily. On the 4th drive he commits to the run again and we're moving until... 2nd and 5 at the Dallas 40, incomplete, sack, punt. Why? Just keep running.
Bucs fans and media got mesmerized with the unbalanced pass ratios when Brady was slinging it to a younger Evans and Godwin, Gronk, Brate, AB, Julio, Miller. We have way better backs now, a better offensive line and an older, worse defense. That path for this team to win 12+ games is to run the hell out of the ball until the defense actually stops us. Last year Coen did not play to the Bucs strengths personnel and play call wise. Durham getting 326 more snaps than Kieft is soft. White getting triple the amount of carries than Tucker is soft.
Hard to extrapolate draft needs from a small sample set in a single game in which we scored enough points to win.
It does not make the case that the defense was average. If it were, we would have been able to stop a 4 (+) minute drive in which the opposing offense disallowed the Buc offense one more possession - in the final game of our season.
The FO, coaching staff, media, and a majority of the fans have it right. You have demonstrated that you don’t.
Fortunately that same staff will ensure they will fix the defense.
I would grade the Bucs offense like this
Wirfs- A+ agreed
Goedeke- A+ no, A-
Godwin- A agreed
Evans- A agreed
Irving- A no, B+ because he can't block
Tucker- A B, because he also cannot block
Baker- B+ agreed but with a caveat below
Mauch- B agreed
McMillan- B agreed
Otton- C agreed
White- C no, B or B+
Barton- D no, C+
Durham- D agreed
Bredeson- F no, C
Shepard- F no, D+
This isn't totally wrong but you're inflating it to fit your narrative and discredit Coen. Baker took massive strides under him. Bucky was put in positions to succeed with some gaping holes because of great play calling. Did Coen have some struggles late in games? Yes... Who doesn't? Most players and coaches get tense and tight late. I'd wager Bowles conservative nature and his defense's inability to get stops led to pressure to perform.
None of that accounts for the run/pass calls.
So, I dont mean this disrespectfully but you sort of have to draw the line somewhere, right?
You are arguing that the sky is gray . . but you are doing so while the sun is out shining bright and the sky is as glorious a blue as it has ever been. That is YOUR prerogative. If I walk to the street corner there may be a guy holding a sign that the world is going to end. I dont care.
The Bucs ran the ball like crazy and it was actually a KEY aspect of their success in a season where success was primarily (and correctly) FRAMED by the team's incredible offensive performance. You're are arguing now . . (now, ie this is about the 14th moving of the goal posts) . . . that the OC at the helm of that historic offense performance was bad because the Bucs were "too pass dominant. The common, widely-available and dominant LEAGUE statistics I just posted seem to completely undercut that claim.
IF YOU WANT TO tearfully thump on the chest of your long dead "Coen is bad, Tucker is E Smith" troll body in hopes of reviving it . . by moving the ball again no less . . . have at it. Maybe start screaming "ITS ALIVE!!!!!" while pounding on? Just to keep up with that guy on the corner. Maybe a sign?
That might be slightly (sarcasm font) more entertaining.
Hard to extrapolate draft needs from a small sample set in a single game in which we scored enough points to win.
It does not make the case that the defense was average. If it were, we would have been able to stop a 4 (+) minute drive in which the opposing offense disallowed the Buc offense one more possession - in the final game of our season.
The FO, coaching staff, media, and a majority of the fans have it right. You have demonstrated that you don’t.
Fortunately that same staff will ensure they will fix the defense.
They have it wrong, just like you do right now with your errenous statements. It wasn't one game. The Commander playoff game and 49er game are clones of each other. Defense gets a stop up 17-13 in the 4th, offense gives it right back, opponent scores, offense has a chance to go up 4 late, can't punch it in. You know why? Because they're SOFT. Couldn't close the game vs Lions. Couldn't close the game vs the Falcons. Couldn't close the game vs the 49ers. 3rd and 1 at the 2 vs Carolina, Rachaad White lol. Couldn't close the game vs Washington. Get these soft players off the field in crunch time. Let White and Durham prance around the field when we're blowing someone out. Save the Jet Sweep for the Giants. When the game is on the line I want Irving and Tucker running behind Kieft, Wirfs and Goedeke.
And 20 points wasn't enough to win because the offense handed the Commanders a TD.
I would grade the Bucs offense like this
Wirfs- A+ agreed
Goedeke- A+ no, A-
Godwin- A agreed
Evans- A agreed
Irving- A no, B+ because he can't block
Tucker- A B, because he also cannot block
Baker- B+ agreed but with a caveat below
Mauch- B agreed
McMillan- B agreed
Otton- C agreed
White- C no, B or B+
Barton- D no, C+
Durham- D agreed
Bredeson- F no, C
Shepard- F no, D+
This isn't totally wrong but you're inflating it to fit your narrative and discredit Coen. Baker took massive strides under him. Bucky was put in positions to succeed with some gaping holes because of great play calling. Did Coen have some struggles late in games? Yes... Who doesn't? Most players and coaches get tense and tight late. I'd wager Bowles conservative nature and his defense's inability to get stops led to pressure to perform.
Overall you inflated it more than me. You can't label White a B or B+ when he really might be the softest RB in the league. He's a significantly worse version of Michael Pittman. I knocked Irving and Tucker down for the pass game, but I still have them as A's because their rush analytics are off the charts, while White is in the toilet.
Bredeson and Barton were tied for 7th most penalties from iOL. And honestly Barton got away with a few more. And the snaps. Bredeson just can't move, it's awful to watch. He can't get to the second level on combos and gets beat all the time in pass pro. Honestly Baker's best trait is navigating the pocket while Bredeson is moving like his shoes are tied to eachother. The fact that they re-signed him for anything was disheartening, let alone being stuck with him in 2026 for $9M. They could have drafted a guard on Day 2 that would be plug and play at good value for 4 years. Or if Banks or Booker fell to 19 you have a superior talent next to Wirfs.
Don't know what you were trying to prove with D+ vs F for Shepard. He probably is a D but I can't stand him so I knocked him. When you're lucky to be in the league because you went to college with the QB its best to not cause trouble. Plus he dropped that 4th down ball vs Dallas
The Commander playoff game and 49er game are clones of each other.
lol thats just how I remember them. They were both the Ryan Miller show!
Don't know what you were trying to prove with D+ vs F for Shepard. He probably is a D but I can't stand him so I knocked him.
lol
None of that accounts for the run/pass calls.
So, I dont mean this disrespectfully but you sort of have to draw the line somewhere, right?
You are arguing that the sky is gray . . but you are doing so while the sun is out shining bright and the sky is as glorious a blue as it has ever been. That is YOUR prerogative. If I walk to the street corner there may be a guy holding a sign that the world is going to end. I dont care.
The Bucs ran the ball like crazy and it was actually a KEY aspect of their success in a season where success was primarily (and correctly) FRAMED by the team's incredible offensive performance. You're are arguing now . . (now, ie this is about the 14th moving of the goal posts) . . . that the OC at the helm of that historic offense performance was bad because the Bucs were "too pass dominant. The common, widely-available and dominant LEAGUE statistics I just posted seem to completely undercut that claim.
IF YOU WANT TO tearfully thump on the chest of your long dead "Coen is bad, Tucker is E Smith" troll body in hopes of reviving it . . by moving the ball again no less . . . have at it. Maybe start screaming "ITS ALIVE!!!!!" while pounding on? Just to keep up with that guy on the corner. Maybe a sign?
That might be slightly (sarcasm font) more entertaining.
They didn't "run the ball like crazy".
Running for 7.9 ypc and jumped up 17-0? Still more passes than runs. Baker 3 INTs.
Running for 6.1 ypc vs the #32 run defense? Only 47% run. Baker 2 INTs and sacked out of FG in OT.
Running for 5.8 ypc vs the #30 run defense? 33% run. 2 turnovers in the pass game.
Running for 5.8 ypc and we're winning the whole game? 44% run, 3 turnovers from the pass game.
Running for 5.0 ypc and our top 3 WRs are OUT? Let's go 37% run.
Bucky rushing for 9 yards per carry in the 1st half vs the #31 rush defense? 4 carries, 17 Baker drop backs. 6 points in first half.
Up 17-13 in the 4th qtr of a playoff game? Let's run a jet sweep eventhough it went for -6 last week. Who cares Tucker has a 17.5 ypc in these situations.
The audacity for everyone to crown Coen king while trying run Bowles out of town.
None of that accounts for the run/pass calls.
So, I dont mean this disrespectfully but you sort of have to draw the line somewhere, right?
You are arguing that the sky is gray . . but you are doing so while the sun is out shining bright and the sky is as glorious a blue as it has ever been. That is YOUR prerogative. If I walk to the street corner there may be a guy holding a sign that the world is going to end. I dont care.
The Bucs ran the ball like crazy and it was actually a KEY aspect of their success in a season where success was primarily (and correctly) FRAMED by the team's incredible offensive performance. You're are arguing now . . (now, ie this is about the 14th moving of the goal posts) . . . that the OC at the helm of that historic offense performance was bad because the Bucs were "too pass dominant. The common, widely-available and dominant LEAGUE statistics I just posted seem to completely undercut that claim.
IF YOU WANT TO tearfully thump on the chest of your long dead "Coen is bad, Tucker is E Smith" troll body in hopes of reviving it . . by moving the ball again no less . . . have at it. Maybe start screaming "ITS ALIVE!!!!!" while pounding on? Just to keep up with that guy on the corner. Maybe a sign?
That might be slightly (sarcasm font) more entertaining.
They didn't "run the ball like crazy".
Running for 7.9 ypc and jumped up 17-0? Still more passes than runs. Baker 3 INTs.
Running for 6.1 ypc vs the #32 run defense? Only 47% run. Baker 2 INTs and sacked out of FG in OT.
Running for 5.8 ypc vs the #30 run defense? 33% run. 2 turnovers in the pass game.
Running for 5.8 ypc and we're winning the whole game? 44% run, 3 turnovers from the pass game.
Running for 5.0 ypc and our top 3 WRs are OUT? Let's go 37% run.
Bucky rushing for 9 yards per carry in the 1st half vs the #31 rush defense? 4 carries, 17 Baker drop backs. 6 points in first half.
Up 17-13 in the 4th qtr of a playoff game? Let's run a jet sweep eventhough it went for -6 last week. Who cares Tucker has a 17.5 ypc in these situations.
The audacity for everyone to crown Coen king while trying run Bowles out of town.
nice sign!
