Reality > Your ignorant perception of reality
"Some guys stats"
"Canales is a Waldron disciple". LMAO
"thats how averages work"
The anti-Canales offense
"Tampa’s dangerous because their scheme is kind of wide open,” he said, as former offensive lineman Damien Woody agreed.
“I don’t know if I have a pulse of exactly who they are on offense — in a good way,” Orlovsky continued.
Retired defensive back Ryan Clark also talked about the variety in the Bucs offense and how it’s finding new contributors while still having Trey Palmer and Rachaad White on the bench."
signing coen was the best offseason move! baker looks as in oklahoma, and everything else clicks as well. if we can get mike going (guess he is not 100%) then we should be able to make playoffs easily
Bowles
“I think the way [Liam] gives Baker the plays and communicates to him what he wants and Baker going out and having options at the line of scrimmage,” Bowles began. “And doing a great job putting us in the right plays and getting what we want, and getting the right angles and not just saying, ‘Run, run, pass’ and ‘pass, pass run,’ just putting us in some great spots."
I think this might change but for the time being this is ONE BIG sign that Coen's offense is NOT like Canales offense of 2023
"Through six weeks [Evans] has been targeted just five times on passes of 20+ air yards. That’s just 12.8% of his targets. That’s a career low as well, again by a demonstrative margin.
2023 was one of his higher target years because Canales was OLD SCHOOL run plus explosives and so far at least Coen is SHORT, quick passes and YAC (Godwin)
I think this might change but for the time being this is ONE BIG sign that Coen's offense is NOT like Canales offense of 2023
"Through six weeks [Evans] has been targeted just five times on passes of 20+ air yards. That’s just 12.8% of his targets. That’s a career low as well, again by a demonstrative margin.
2023 was one of his higher target years because Canales was OLD SCHOOL run plus explosives and so far at least Coen is SHORT, quick passes and YAC (Godwin)
Josh Q on Evans
"Because while [Evans] is by no means a slouch on shorter-breaking routes, he isn’t a quick-twitch small-space maven who can generate a ton of yards after the catch either."
that thought was once very controversial on the RB
I think this might change but for the time being this is ONE BIG sign that Coen's offense is NOT like Canales offense of 2023
"Through six weeks [Evans] has been targeted just five times on passes of 20+ air yards. That’s just 12.8% of his targets. That’s a career low as well, again by a demonstrative margin.
2023 was one of his higher target years because Canales was OLD SCHOOL run plus explosives and so far at least Coen is SHORT, quick passes and YAC (Godwin)
Josh Q on Evans
"Because while [Evans] is by no means a slouch on shorter-breaking routes, he isn’t a quick-twitch small-space maven who can generate a ton of yards after the catch either."
Evans’ best routes are primarily deep developing, and allow his long strides to eat up huge chunks of yardage and force corners to defend larger swaths of space. Corners, posts, fades, digs and sails are his calling cards. He is great at slants and short yardage, goal line fades, but you don’t normally see him rip off a whip-return."
that thought was once very controversial on the RB
Just like Dave canales last year, at this rate Liam coen will be one and done here sadly.
Just like Dave canales last year, at this rate Liam coen will be one and done here sadly.
If this offense continues its upward trend, the Glazers won’t let him leave the building.
May be wishful thinking but he’s not viewed (yet) like Canales was. Canales was a HEAD COACH protege for a decade of a legendary HC. He was trained by that legend to be a HC. Canales also had the “quarterback whisperer” thing on top of that so he was nearly a perfect fit, on paper, for a job like the Panthers
Canales as an OC was a little smoke & mirrors so he had to jump at the HC got, even at that terrible org
Coen is really a first time OC with no Hc experience or training. Probably easier for the Bucs to keep him.
Godwin seems to be the main passing target in this offense. Not a bad thing, lots of third down conversions and YAC, but taking away some of Evans' thunder.
Godwin seems to be the main passing target in this offense. Not a bad thing, lots of third down conversions and YAC, but taking away some of Evans' thunder.
"but taking away some of Evans' thunder"
Or, maybe picking up some of it where it's lacking at the moment because Evans a bit banged up?
Theres no doubt the offenses are very different, from Canales to Coen.
But, one might expect that with all the short passing early and then add now running game success .. . the deep ball is coming. Hopefully Evans is healthy and blows the doors off the 1000 yards!
Canales describing his old school "toughness" offensive philosophy (after a Panthers win):
""It's Pete Carroll football. It was USC Trojans football. It was Seattle Seahawks football," he said "And the highest performances that I've seen, when we won championships and when we were a powerful team, it was that complementary football, being able to run the ball, being able to play great defense and flying around like crazy on special teams and the heart of it all is toughness. And how you show toughness as an offense is you run the football."
"It's a mentality of Panthers football that I want to continue to just keep pounding away at that mentality, to be able to show that toughness as a full group. And you could see it at the end of the game as we finished our runs, there was some violence. Guys got tired, and it was ugly, and it was beautiful."
Coen's "confuse them" offense as described by one of its biggest beneficiaries, Godwin:
"“I think it’s a lot of diversity,” Bucs wide receiver Chris Godwin said recently following last week’s OTA practice. “I think that there’s going to be a lot of moving parts for defenses to have to figure out. I think how they’re teaching it is going to allow for us to have a lot of cohesiveness in the offense. We have a bunch of different terms and phrases that can get us into one formation or one play that looks like a different play, so I think how it all marries up will be really beneficial for us.”
and Coen himself distinguished his running game from Canales AND handing a lot of control to Mayfield:
"Some diversity in terms of giving these guys different ways of hitting blocks,” Coen said about the run game. “Whether it’s the mid zone, the wide zone, the tight zone, duo, gap with pullers, perimeter runs. Defenses are too good to say that we’re just going to line up and run a few runs. We have to give these guys a toolbox and also that goes along with giving them multiple plays in the huddle and that might be two, it might be three options to be able to get to in terms of what the defense is presenting.
“Well, let’s change the math and run away from numbers or gain the numbers back in our favor. If we get man coverage, well let’s get to a man-beater, those are things that it ultimately puts a lot more on the guys, but I think they are ready for it.”
@bucsbits Seems to be working. Comes down to Mayfield’s ability to process.
It affirms the idea that the concepts were similar enough (Canales vs Coen), that it was a smooth transition with some added layers of movement…but the idea of allowing the backs & receivers adjust blocking attacks means this point in the season would be about where we would see all of them be able to dial-in on the new concepts.
I’m reserving my enthusiasm until after the Ravens game…but I’m definitely curious to see it!
@bucsbits Seems to be working. Comes down to Mayfield’s ability to process.
It affirms the idea that the concepts were similar enough (Canales vs Coen), that it was a smooth transition with some added layers of movement…but the idea of allowing the backs & receivers adjust blocking attacks means this point in the season would be about where we would see all of them be able to dial-in on the new concepts.
I’m reserving my enthusiasm until after the Ravens game…but I’m definitely curious to see it!
Yes, definitely working. And much quicker than I would've thought. This is one reason I suggested (wrongly, in hindsight) that we might start slow and things could unravel with a slow start. Happily wrong. And, like you, eager to see this next stretch!
On Canales v Coen, a lot of the posts on that topic confuse philosophy and scheme. Many offensive plays across the league are similar enough, just as you say. Language too. But, coaches operate from different philosophies and as a result run offenses differently.
Canales is a Pete Carroll disciple so his PHILOSOPHY is exactly the same. Run the ball to be physically dominant and make it easier for a QB by (hopefully) staying on schedule, down and distance etc. And then get explosive passes and runs off of that. Last year Evans was the primary explosive play guy.
Coen runs the ball to keep pressure on the opposing defenses (a common theme across most NFL teams) but his way is, in part, by making many runs look alike (ie running out of the same formations) pre-snap and using motion. He also use motion and multiple plays to make the QB's job easier, but also a lot of varied short passing. Evans yard way down, Godwin near league top in multiple stats.
Perhaps the biggest contrast is that Canales had Mayfield largely on lock down (go run the play) and Coen is giving two or three plays for Mayfield to move though depending on what the defense gives us.
Another strong contrast is adaptation (and that is because they are very different guys).
Canales had a SINGULAR way of running the OFFENSE because it wasn't his offense. He was just using what he had seen for years, not creatively bending plays to the circumstances. One easy example: He put Godwin into HIS offense (outside) instead of adapting his offense around Godwin. And Godwin struggled, until later in the season when Canales finally saw the light.
Coen has adapted his running game to the strength of his line and his RBs in just a few games. It's his offense. The two coaches are both great, but night and day. Coen is a truly creative OC. Canales is and was in 2023 a HC-type, a leader of men, more that an X and O guy.
