That's not how the NFL works. You have an internal clock to throw it
At the 1:06 mark Canales is talking about he Eagles defense and the second question form a reporter is about the effectiveness of QUICK, RHYTHMIC passing against the Eagles pass rush. Canales mentions that they have a sort of 3 second rule, as in get rid of the ball in 3 or less. Pretty common. Sometimes you break from it obviously BUT . . . as has been posted over and over and over .. the first read and fire approach IS THE PRIMARY SCHEME. Its part of making it EASIER for the QB and its playing to Mayfield's strengths
But if only Baker went to his 10th progression he would have found someone open!
Speaking of hills to die on...
This strawman makes you look like your drunk driving douchebag sidekick. You're better than that.
There have been games this year where Canales has called a good game and Baker has been bad.
There's film of it to back that. There's metrics to back that. It is what it is.
Detroit (back in October) was a PERFECT example of this. And, many of the Baker supporters (not you necessarily) we're still blaming Canales (despite Evans and Palmer on OBVIOUS first and second reads, running wide and free throughout their secondary).
"He needs to simplify it. Not so many deep shots. Get him easy looks. Etc."
That's a QB problem. Not an OC problem.
Clearly, there are 2 sides to this debate and neither camp is going to budge. So, honestly, I don't give a fuck anymore.
He'll be back on a multi-year deal. He earned it.
I'm more focused/interested in what Licht does to continue to build the roster and add pieces.
Let's see who turns on Baker next week when he makes a mess up
If he plays like shit, I’m guessing he’ll get some heat. You’ll notice how he doesn’t get shit when he plays well. It’s crazy how that works, I know.
He’s consistently inconsistent with wild swings in play. That’s who he shown himself to be in the NFL.
I value your take Biggs, I do. Solid Post, however, my hypothetical conjure response is...what if, what if he could simply be more consistent, like lets say-Just as good as he played on Monday night. Could we accept that Baker, as a fan base, and embrace him as our leader- Its honestly all he's ever wanted, a place to fight his way and to be loved by those living with him under the roof of one home. I think he found not only his arm and consistency on Monday night, But I think he found his ONE true home. Hes been on hOw many teams and how many HC's, and HOW and how many useless OC's???? Listen, if Baker can just repeat what he did- even just a fair approximation with good and bad days (were all entitled to them)- I would not only be FINE with that I would BE EXTATIC having him lead the ONE and ONLY team I have ever followed-the year after WS and DB were drafted, that year I CLAIMED the BUCS as my team from then. Yeah, I think Baker found his ONE HOME. His Home is located at ONE BUC PLACE!!!! His brothers live under their same roof, and they like the way he fights, and LOVE'm for it. YEah, this is gonna turn out fun. at least I sure as hell hope it turns out fun, for our sakes.
Ramon B 1981 GOOO Bucs!!!!
That's not how the NFL works. You have an internal clock to throw it.
On the play in question, the QB had over 4.1 seconds to throw the ball. You may know that if you would analyze the play correctly. Instead, you've chosen pull things from your anus.
Thanks for telling me how the NFL works.
Lol, Baker was worse than Canales but Canales was not good that game.
I'll be frank here, what can be seen as douchy. You've proven you don't really have credibility to make this statement. You've made far too many statements that indicate you don't really know what you're talking about.
You can have the last word.
however, my hypothetical conjure response is...what if, what if he could simply be more consistent, like lets say-Just as good as he played on Monday night. Could we accept that Baker, as a fan base, and embrace him as our leader
There's literally NOBODY that wouldn't accept that.
what if he could simply be more consistent, like lets say-Just as good as he played on Monday night.
To this point . . . who knows how it would go in the future BUT . .
1) The team AND BAKER have generally improved as the season has gone on, as one would expect. Familiarity and trust.
2) there was a comparison posted here of Mayfield to Brady, Freeman and Winston. It seemed like the point was that theres no guarantee the 2nd year will be better AND THIS TRUE but I think Brady, as one example, was actually better in his second year again as one might expect because he and his receivers were more familiar, better timing etc.
He certainly could be more consistent next year. Who knows, but I bet Bowles and Canales think so.
Let's see who turns on Baker next week when he makes a mess up
If he plays like shit, I’m guessing he’ll get some heat. You’ll notice how he doesn’t get shit when he plays well. It’s crazy how that works, I know.
He’s consistently inconsistent with wild swings in play. That’s who he shown himself to be in the NFL.
I value your take Biggs, I do. Solid Post, however, my hypothetical conjure response is...what if, what if he could simply be more consistent, like lets say-Just as good as he played on Monday night. Could we accept that Baker, as a fan base, and embrace him as our leader- Its honestly all he's ever wanted, a place to fight his way and to be loved by those living with him under the roof of one home. I think he found not only his arm and consistency on Monday night, But I think he found his ONE true home. Hes been on hOw many teams and how many HC's, and HOW and how many useless OC's???? Listen, if Baker can just repeat what he did- even just a fair approximation with good and bad days (were all entitled to them)- I would not only be FINE with that I would BE EXTATIC having him lead the ONE and ONLY team I have ever followed-the year after WS and DB were drafted, that year I CLAIMED the BUCS as my team from then. Yeah, I think Baker found his ONE HOME. His Home is located at ONE BUC PLACE!!!! His brothers live under their same roof, and they like the way he fights, and LOVE'm for it. YEah, this is gonna turn out fun. at least I sure as hell hope it turns out fun, for our sakes.
Of course. Mayfield played very well vs. Philly. Just like he did vs. GB/Jax/HOU/NO-Game1. Unfortunately he had his clunkers along the way too.
But yes, obviously if he can play consistently good football, I like him. I've already said I like his leadership qualities and the way he carries himself with his teammates. My problem is his up-and-down, inconsistent play on the field. If he changes his stripes, that's great. But not very many players change their stripes.
Oh and BTW Bishes. This was GAME DAY THREAD!!!! C'mon now. Lets start new topics in their own proper threads.
Ramon, I gotchu tho!!!!
what if Baker just played JUST A LITTLE BETTER HIMSELF next year BUT
our defense was much better (more like Monday night all season) and
our RUNNING GAME was much better (more like the end of the year)
and we DRAFTED a much more elusive TE . . .to pair with Otton
And Canales was more consistent (because he has a season of experience)
And Palmer improved (more like Monday) or we got a much better 3rd receiver
Lol Biggs. I watched the film so I can call the sky purple.
You claim to know the read order on plays just because you watched film.
Do you hear yourself?
I, from memory, watched Baker look one direction the whole play. (This is not a compliment to Baker, he should have scanned back).
It is perfectly logical and reasonable that the player(s) he's staring down are the primary read, especially when they are our best players.
That doesn't mean I am without a doubt correct, but LOGICALLY is is reasonable to assume that Otton was not part of the primary read. That again could be debunked of you were to ask Baker and Canales so both of us are guessing based on what we can see.
Both of us agree he SHOULD have gone through his progressions in a perfect world and could have played much better that game and that play specifically.
The difference between us Biggs, is your hubris and All 22 subscription make you think you're "right" about an opinion. You KNOW you're right. I THINK I'm right.
And that's why nobody gets along with you... you're a douche. You've always been a douche. You've always cherry picked stats or quotes. You've always trolled. You've always been who you are... and now you and DH have locked arms so much so that you think I'm locking arms with others here in some sort of idk... tribalism?
I'm a Baker bro because I've spread blame around... and then I attribute Baker's success to Canales calling a great game and yet I'm still a Baker bro.
This shit doesn't make any sense. You've painted me as anti-Canales because it's an easier argument to feel like I don't like Canales as much as you don't like Baker.
Just like you did trying to argue politics like an absolute tard... you try to make everything a binary choice. Your brain explodes with context.
Let's see who turns on Baker next week when he makes a mess up
If he plays like shit, I’m guessing he’ll get some heat. You’ll notice how he doesn’t get shit when he plays well. It’s crazy how that works, I know.
He’s consistently inconsistent with wild swings in play. That’s who he shown himself to be in the NFL.
I value your take Biggs, I do. Solid Post, however, my hypothetical conjure response is...what if, what if he could simply be more consistent, like lets say-Just as good as he played on Monday night. Could we accept that Baker, as a fan base, and embrace him as our leader- Its honestly all he's ever wanted, a place to fight his way and to be loved by those living with him under the roof of one home. I think he found not only his arm and consistency on Monday night, But I think he found his ONE true home. Hes been on hOw many teams and how many HC's, and HOW and how many useless OC's???? Listen, if Baker can just repeat what he did- even just a fair approximation with good and bad days (were all entitled to them)- I would not only be FINE with that I would BE EXTATIC having him lead the ONE and ONLY team I have ever followed-the year after WS and DB were drafted, that year I CLAIMED the BUCS as my team from then. Yeah, I think Baker found his ONE HOME. His Home is located at ONE BUC PLACE!!!! His brothers live under their same roof, and they like the way he fights, and LOVE'm for it. YEah, this is gonna turn out fun. at least I sure as hell hope it turns out fun, for our sakes.
Of course. Mayfield played very well vs. Philly. Just like he did vs. GB/Jax/HOU/NO-Game1. Unfortunately he had his clunkers along the way too.
But yes, obviously if he can play consistently good football, I like him. I've already said I like his leadership qualities and the way he carries himself with his teammates. My problem is his up-and-down, inconsistent play on the field. If he changes his stripes, that's great. But not very many players change their stripes.
Again. Agreed. Im just excited to see how it plays itself out. There truly is only a 20% chance he can repeat what he did to the stinking Iggles vs the 9'ers, but thats why "they play the games." I just want him to get healthy practice up and then we'll see....we'll see who shows up? Even still, lets say he plays poorly and clunks it- the perception and some solid facts all suggest he is due for a clunker... but what if...you know, what if he gets better over the offseason and comes back even Baker/Better next season. Im willing to at least watch it unfold. Its not like, as a single fan, I could do anything about it anyway. So, Ill watch and cross my fingers, make sure Im buckled up and READY FOR ANYTHING in between the rest of this season and the NEXT. In this way too, it can be both and "eye" one the now and on the future. Im typically an optimist anywayy, its my natural "steady-state." Tootaloo for now Bishes!!!!
Ramon B 17-Jan-1981 GOOO Bucs!!!!
I think Im dun for today. Its time for my B-day party. Food, beer, Bon Fire, and Family. Doesnt get any better than that does it!!!! Nope, not for ME anyway!!!!
Lol Biggs. I watched the film so I can call the sky purple.
You claim to know the read order on plays just because you watched film.
Do you hear yourself?
I, from memory, watched Baker look one direction the whole play. (This is not a compliment to Baker, he should have scanned back).
It is perfectly logical and reasonable that the player(s) he's staring down are the primary read, especially when they are our best players.
That doesn't mean I am without a doubt correct, but LOGICALLY is is reasonable to assume that Otton was not part of the primary read. That again could be debunked of you were to ask Baker and Canales so both of us are guessing based on what we can see.
Both of us agree he SHOULD have gone through his progressions in a perfect world and could have played much better that game and that play specifically.
The difference between us Biggs, is your hubris and All 22 subscription make you think you're "right" about an opinion. You KNOW you're right. I THINK I'm right.
And that's why nobody gets along with you... you're a douche. You've always been a douche. You've always cherry picked stats or quotes. You've always trolled. You've always been who you are... and now you and DH have locked arms so much so that you think I'm locking arms with others here in some sort of idk... tribalism?
I'm a Baker bro because I've spread blame around... and then I attribute Baker's success to Canales calling a great game and yet I'm still a Baker bro.
This shit doesn't make any sense. You've painted me as anti-Canales because it's an easier argument to feel like I don't like Canales as much as you don't like Baker.
Just like you did trying to argue politics like an absolute tard... you try to make everything a binary choice. Your brain explodes with context.
Look, the bottom line is that most of the plays are live routes across the board. Wide receiver screens and trick plays are the only thing we seem to run that is directed at a specific receiver. Every play is designed for a primary and secondary receiver. Here's the part of the puzzle you don't seem to understand or want to acknowledge. When the QB comes up to the line, his first job is to look for the mike and safety, and any other keys that they may be using. Determine pre-snap what the likely defense is and make the determination which part of the field to read first. If he does this correctly then the first or second read in that part of the field should be open within 3 seconds on most of the plays they run. If neither is open, then the QB, time permitting, goes through the rest and should do so based on how the defense is aligning. So yes, the first read SHOULD be the guy to throw to, and to do so in less than 3 seconds. But the QB has to make the initial side read correctly and then correctly read the post snap movement and know where to go and let the ball go. Baker has been able to do this at times, but he struggles to do it consistently.
Dave Canales' play calling has not been perfect, and I would argue he needs to lean a lot more on outside and edge runs until the Bucs can fix the interior of the line. But his plays have gotten receivers open with regularity, and it's the job of the QB to know where the likely open guy will be before the snap, confirm, and throw it. When he's done this correctly he's had great games. But that numbers in the roughly 4-5 game territory. It's all the other times he hasn't and you want to blame Canales' play calling for it, not that improved play calling can't help take some of the pressure off.
most of the plays are live routes across the board
honest question . . two actually . . . 1) "live routes across the board" . .. you only mean that ever receiver is in play, I assume? of course they are BUT
2) you'd agree most NFL QBs in a routine 2-3 second play ARE NOT expected to go through 3-4 progressions and then hit some 5th receiver? That mostly happens when a play has broken down to adjusted routes, break offs and such, right?
if he does this correctly then the first or second read in that part of the field should be open within 3 seconds on most of the plays they run.
Okay so there are a few posters here who likes to claim the benefit of film (Fire alludes to this above). In one such instance it was claimed that Mayfield failed to see "Palmer running wide open." The timing of the play was identified, so I posted a link to the video of the actual play. Palmer is FIELD SIDE and CLEARING OUT A CB for a short route combo of Evans and Godwin. Effectively, he is not in the play.
The play is 100% going to Godwin, its a play we have run for years. Its over in a couple seconds. However, in this play Mayfield correctly pre-snap reads MAN cover (defender following motion) and MAN is perfect for the play called. That is his CORRECT pre-snap read. At the snap though the defenders drop into zone so Godwin's route is taking him right to the MLBs arms. Mayfield continues OUT on to the PLAY SIDE read, which is Otton. That is EXACTLY what mayfield is supposed to do, but it was described as "Mayfield missed a wide open Palmer
most of the plays are live routes across the board
honest question . . two actually . . . 1) "live routes across the board" . .. you only mean that ever receiver is in play, I assume? of course they are BUT
2) you'd agree most NFL QBs in a routine 2-3 second play ARE NOT expected to go through 3-4 progressions and then hit some 5th receiver? That mostly happens when a play has broken down to adjusted routes, break offs and such, right?
There are offenses that run plays where half the field is never technically in play. Of course, the QB and receivers can improvise, but the other routes are strictly designed to pull coverage off one or two others. All the routes are, yes, in play. The routes are designed to force the defense to make choices in their coverage leaving somebody open. You don't really know for sure who will be open, but you start with where the defense is likely to have the hole and read from there.
