The idea is that the decline from a Barton to a Hainsey is less significant than the drop-off from a Verse to players like Anthony Nelson, Chris Braswell, or JTS.
Agreed, but Verse wasn’t available when Tampa picked. The team had an opportunity to take a good Edge player in George Karlaftis, but traded back and settled for Logan Hall. This isn’t that situation.
1. The origin of this problem stems from Licht’s miss evaluation on Creed Humphrey in 2021. He could have taken him at 32 or moved up from 64. Instead he flushed 64 down the toilet and took Hainsey in the 3rd.
2. Center is a low value position so having Hainsey was fine, though not ideal.
3. While I appreciate Licht’s vision for building an elite OL, he whiffed again on his Barton eval. His 2023 game vs Florida State was pathetic. Barton isn’t good and will likely never be good.
4. Licht’s comments about the offensive line have me worried. It sounds like he believes it’s a finished product and they just need to be healthy. Well Wirfs, Goedeke and Mauch are indeed great players but at this point we have to be honest and admit that Wirfs and Goedeke are extremely injury prone. And Mauch is coming off major knee surgery. Bredeson and Barton are fringe starters, backup level players. There are no viable backups on the roster. Klein doesn’t belong in the NFL and the make a wish guy at LT doesn’t belong in the NFL either.
5. Offensive line needs to be in play at 15. There are a bunch of huge offensive tackles that can slide inside to LG and be the backup swing tackle when Wirfs and Goedeke go down again. It would give us a kickass LG next Wirfs and let Bredeson and Barton battle for center and the loser is the backup iOL.
Problem here is Licht consistently backs himself into a corner where he’s needs a starter. It’s happened this year with MLB. Maybe the cap issues were keeping him from getting free agents to help with depth?
The idea is that the decline from a Barton to a Hainsey is less significant than the drop-off from a Verse to players like Anthony Nelson, Chris Braswell, or JTS.
Agreed, but Verse wasn’t available when Tampa picked. The team had an opportunity to take a good Edge player in George Karlaftis, but traded back and settled for Logan Hall. This isn’t that situation.
That's THEE Logan Hall. Put some respect on those 10 career sacks over 4 seasons.
Maybe he does need to go to LT. As if he possibly does, it could help him in the very long run.
Maybe he does need to go to LT.
I think we are good there…
Also, Center isn’t a low value position. Outside of the QB the center is the smartest player on the offensive side of the ball.
Maybe he does need to go to LT.
I think we are good there…
Also, Center isn’t a low value position. Outside of the QB the center is the smartest player on the offensive side of the ball.
The point flew over your head. Wirfs has missed games in 4 of his 6 seasons. There is no swing tackle on the roster. There's a need at LG (but I just heard Licht stroking Bredeson so I guess we're stuck with him starting again). This draft has some great offensive tackles that have the ability to play high level guard. If the BPA at 15 is an OT they should take him.
As for center not being low value. Rank this positions in order from most important to least important: QB, RB1, RB2, WR, WR2, WR3, TE1, TE2, LT, LG, C, RG, RT, Edge 1, Edge 2, Edge 3, iDL1, iDL2, iDL3, ILB1, ILB2, CB1, CB2, CB3, FS, SS
QB, LT, NT, Edge, Center, WR1, WR2, RT MLB….
You get the idea. Center is damn important to the success of the team
QB, LT, NT, Edge, Center, WR1, WR2, RT MLB….
You get the idea. Center is damn important to the success of the team
Center is not that high
QB>LT>edgeX2>RT>DT>WR1>CB1>G>C>WR2>MLB>S>CB2>TE>RB1>WLB>SLB>CB3/S2>WR3
The main point about Barton or any center for that matter is that centers are picked in the first round at a lessor rate than any position. Thru the years centers were drafted in the 1st with only 3-5 per decade from the 70s to 00s. In the 8-year period between 2016 and 2024, only six centers were drafted in the first round. Center is important, but good centers can be found much easier outside the first round. And Barton being average so far doesn’t meet the value of taking a center at that spot.
If you're gonna big brain your picks by taking luxury positions, you have to hit.
Aguayo in the 2nd (k)
OJ Howard in the first (TE)
Devin White in the first (MLB top 5)
Graham Barton in the first (C)
Hargreaves in the first (slot corner top 10)
Trask in the 2nd (backup QB)
Prior to Licht
Doug Martin in the first (rb)
Mark Barron in the first (s)
This is a TON of premium value with minimal upside. These picks are fine if they are elite at their position (which I will define as top 10).
None of these picks, not open, was top 10 at their position. All of them wasted picks on positions of luxury.
Bad. Smdh
The main point about Barton or any center for that matter is that centers are picked in the first round at a lessor rate than any position. Thru the years centers were drafted in the 1st with only 3-5 per decade from the 70s to 00s. In the 8-year period between 2016 and 2024, only six centers were drafted in the first round. Center is important, but good centers can be found much easier outside the first round. And Barton being average so far doesn’t meet the value of taking a center at that spot.
He's not even average. He's slightly below average. He needs to have an all-pro year next year to justify the pick. I hope he does...
@alldaway - I don’t agree that Verse wouldn’t play as well for us (aside from occasionally having to drop into coverage). Him having Vea and Kancey in the middle would be huge. Diaby isn’t Verse. Mounting up pressures in a scheme that blitzes a high percentage is different than getting pressures playing in standard four man rush. Blitz packages can put an edge in a one on one with a tight end or even a running back. That’s different. Give me a Verse over an average interior offensive lineman any day.
Diaby is very high in pressures in his own right compared to the rest of the league, and he doesn't have as much help. Lets compare:
Vea and Poona Ford = Push, I will give the edge to Vea since he does generate sacks.
Turner versus Kancey? Turner wins this because he can stay healthier than Kancey. Edge Turner.
Fiske? Fiske over Hall all day every day not even close.
Byron Young opposite of Verse? Who does Diaby have to help him?
Verse would never perform as well as he has done with the Bucs personnel grouping. That is the truth. You need guys to help each other out.
1. The origin of this problem stems from Licht’s miss evaluation on Creed Humphrey in 2021. He could have taken him at 32 or moved up from 64. Instead he flushed 64 down the toilet and took Hainsey in the 3rd.
J. Scheider could have taken Creed Humphries too but he settled for taking OL in the mid rounds instead and was forced to use a 1st round pick later on Zabel to fix that mistake.
The idea that you can take centers and guards mid round and not pay a price is not congruent with modern NFL game. If you need to fix a spot and anchor an alpha you take that guard or center round 1.
Licht didn't hesitate to pull the trigger on Barton and I do not blame him.
In fact if the Bucs passed on Barton I wouldn't been surprised if the Bucs traded up for Zabel to leap frog the Seahawks to following draft. Of course would have the Seahawks have taken EE though with JSN already in the fold?
The main point about Barton or any center for that matter is that centers are picked in the first round at a lessor rate than any position. Thru the years centers were drafted in the 1st with only 3-5 per decade from the 70s to 00s. In the 8-year period between 2016 and 2024, only six centers were drafted in the first round. Center is important, but good centers can be found much easier outside the first round. And Barton being average so far doesn’t meet the value of taking a center at that spot.
The Seahawks do not win the Super Bowl if J. Scheider stuck to his archaic way of thinking of drafting centers and guards in the mid round. The Seahawks would not trade Zabel for an edge rusher that gives them 10 sacks. In fact did the Seahawks win a SB with a guy with double digit sacks? I do not even remember if the had any guy hit that mark on the Seahawks defense.
Alldaway- you have some good thoughts at times, but you lose when you try to prove your point by saying Diaby is better than Verse.
And stop with the Seahawks comparisons. Two completely different teams. And one has a great defensive coordinator. And Barton is no Zabol. Again, bad pick in that first round.