What about Paul Gruber, who played on losing teams for the first nine years of his career? Was he "Pure losing culture"? Was he the reason the Bucs lost for those nine years straight? Perhaps the Bucs didn't put a winning team around McCoy. Is that a possibility?Funny how McCoy gets all the grief because he was the best player on a losing team. Whatever you think of him, he was not the reason they lost! That honor belongs to all the terrible players who were on the team at the time and all the bad coaches. But McCoy is the lightning rod who gets all the grief. Nobody gives Paul Gruber a hard time. Well, he was a great player on a bad team. Is it Paul Gruber's fault they were bad? Why does Paul Gruber get a pass and McCoy gets the blame? McCoy deserves to be in the Ring of Honor for his career as a Buccaneer, and those who don't think so are incorrectly projecting their pain and suffering for those years on the wrong guy.He's just looking at it from the wrong pov because he's the one that came from the losing culture.
In 2012 when we had that big offense and blew all those leads he had 1 sack on 112 4th qtr drop backs when we had the lead.
He was the epitome of the Bucs during the dead years. Pure losing culture
What about Paul Gruber, who played on losing teams for the first nine years of his career? Was he "Pure losing culture"? Was he the reason the Bucs lost for those nine years straight? Perhaps the Bucs didn't put a winning team around McCoy. Is that a possibility?Funny how McCoy gets all the grief because he was the best player on a losing team. Whatever you think of him, he was not the reason they lost! That honor belongs to all the terrible players who were on the team at the time and all the bad coaches. But McCoy is the lightning rod who gets all the grief. Nobody gives Paul Gruber a hard time. Well, he was a great player on a bad team. Is it Paul Gruber's fault they were bad? Why does Paul Gruber get a pass and McCoy gets the blame? McCoy deserves to be in the Ring of Honor for his career as a Buccaneer, and those who don't think so are incorrectly projecting their pain and suffering for those years on the wrong guy.He's just looking at it from the wrong pov because he's the one that came from the losing culture.
In 2012 when we had that big offense and blew all those leads he had 1 sack on 112 4th qtr drop backs when we had the lead.
He was the epitome of the Bucs during the dead years. Pure losing culture
Did you watch the games? Did you see the stat I posted? In crunch time he disappeared and so did the leads. That 2012 team should have been 10-3 if they werent letting teams score at will in the 4th qtr. And yea when you're drafted 3rd overall and getting paid like a QB it's on you.
What about Paul Gruber, who played on losing teams for the first nine years of his career? Was he "Pure losing culture"? Was he the reason the Bucs lost for those nine years straight? Perhaps the Bucs didn't put a winning team around McCoy. Is that a possibility?Funny how McCoy gets all the grief because he was the best player on a losing team. Whatever you think of him, he was not the reason they lost! That honor belongs to all the terrible players who were on the team at the time and all the bad coaches. But McCoy is the lightning rod who gets all the grief. Nobody gives Paul Gruber a hard time. Well, he was a great player on a bad team. Is it Paul Gruber's fault they were bad? Why does Paul Gruber get a pass and McCoy gets the blame? McCoy deserves to be in the Ring of Honor for his career as a Buccaneer, and those who don't think so are incorrectly projecting their pain and suffering for those years on the wrong guy.He's just looking at it from the wrong pov because he's the one that came from the losing culture.
In 2012 when we had that big offense and blew all those leads he had 1 sack on 112 4th qtr drop backs when we had the lead.
He was the epitome of the Bucs during the dead years. Pure losing culture
I can't speak to Paul Gruber. He's before my time.
But I sure as shit watched Gerald McCoy's soft ass apologize to Big Ben for a bullshit roughing call.
I watched him have awful gap integrity and teams exploit his quick jump while he runs himself completely out of the play.
I watched him celebrate the first stop of the game in the 3rd quarter down 35 as if we were up 28.
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
Gruber I do not remember being very vocal or opinionated. But Sapp was opinionated but he backed it up while McCoy did not. Suh shows up in Tampa and backs it up while McCoy ended his career at that point that Suh won a SB.
So McCoy is thinking small when saying be happy with winning games to the fans. Sapp wanted to win division championships, NFC titles and SBs. Even Keyshawn felt the same way and Sapp did not get along with key.
Winning games is what was argued not long ago toward Bills fans and that has stayed with that franchise with a SB eluding them for so long. Until they can go over that hump Bills fans are not happy with just "winning games".
That argument might fly with Detroit fans but even older Detroit fans remember winning games in the 90s and felt they need to do more than just win games. Progress is more important beyond winning games that is really 50/50% win or lose for most NFL matchups. Deep playoff runs and SB wins just matter that much more.
McCoy is thinking small and needs to aim higher which is why he was a very good player but never a great player like Sapp, Evans or LVD.
LVD was upset when he cost the Bucs that Jets game but that is the difference between LVD and McCoy. McCoy would be all smiles in the 4th quarter of games and didn't show up when it mattered most to win football games for this squad.
OK this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.\
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
Let me refresh your memory about Gruber. He's considered the greatest O-lineman in Bucs history pre-Wirfs. He's not blamed for being responsible for the losing culture on losing teams for almost an entire decade. That's because Barber and Sapp didn't play on that side of the ball.OK this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.\
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
I'm not asking you to go back and watch the game film, just use objectivity and common sense. You have a guy going to Probowls on a losing team. That doesn' t mean he's the one causing them to lose. They're losing because the other players and coaches suck. Look Barber and Sapp were on the Superbowl team. They see a losing team and they see that McCoy couldn't elevate them. Fair enough that he couldn't elevate the rest of the team, but he wasn't a bad player and he wasn't the reason they were bad. Come on.
OK this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.\
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
I didn't say he was the best player. I said he was talented.
The best player was Lavonte.
McCoy's style of play was easy to exploit. He epitomized losing.
He was paid handsomely to do shit, especially when it mattered most.
Let me refresh your memory about Gruber. He's considered the greatest O-lineman in Bucs history pre-Wirfs. He's not blamed for being responsible for the losing culture on losing teams for almost an entire decade. That's because Barber and Sapp didn't play on that side of the ball.OK this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.\
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
I'm not asking you to go back and watch the game film, just use objectivity and common sense. You have a guy going to Probowls on a losing team. That doesn' t mean he's the one causing them to lose. They're losing because the other players and coaches suck. Look Barber and Sapp were on the Superbowl team. They see a losing team and they see that McCoy couldn't elevate them. Fair enough that he couldn't elevate the rest of the team, but he wasn't a bad player and he wasn't the reason they were bad. Come on.
Nobody cares about pro bowl.
Jameis Winston has as many as Lavonte.
What about the Ring of Honor? That loser Gruber is in it. How did he get there? He was responsible for leading an offense to nine straight losing seasons.Let me refresh your memory about Gruber. He's considered the greatest O-lineman in Bucs history pre-Wirfs. He's not blamed for being responsible for the losing culture on losing teams for almost an entire decade. That's because Barber and Sapp didn't play on that side of the ball.OK this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.\
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
I'm not asking you to go back and watch the game film, just use objectivity and common sense. You have a guy going to Probowls on a losing team. That doesn' t mean he's the one causing them to lose. They're losing because the other players and coaches suck. Look Barber and Sapp were on the Superbowl team. They see a losing team and they see that McCoy couldn't elevate them. Fair enough that he couldn't elevate the rest of the team, but he wasn't a bad player and he wasn't the reason they were bad. Come on.
Nobody cares about pro bowl.
Jameis Winston has as many as Lavonte.
What about the Ring of Honor? That loser Gruber is in it. How did he get there? He was responsible for leading an offense to nine straight losing seasons.Let me refresh your memory about Gruber. He's considered the greatest O-lineman in Bucs history pre-Wirfs. He's not blamed for being responsible for the losing culture on losing teams for almost an entire decade. That's because Barber and Sapp didn't play on that side of the ball.OK this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.\
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
I'm not asking you to go back and watch the game film, just use objectivity and common sense. You have a guy going to Probowls on a losing team. That doesn' t mean he's the one causing them to lose. They're losing because the other players and coaches suck. Look Barber and Sapp were on the Superbowl team. They see a losing team and they see that McCoy couldn't elevate them. Fair enough that he couldn't elevate the rest of the team, but he wasn't a bad player and he wasn't the reason they were bad. Come on.
Nobody cares about pro bowl.
Jameis Winston has as many as Lavonte.
Your argument completely ignores what we all saw during the McCoy (highest paid player on the team) era.
He has zero killer instinct. He's soft.
Suh was a similar talent (probably slightly better) but his killer mentality made him 10x the player.
He didn't want or need to be liked. He wanted QBs to fear him...
McCoy cared more about being liked than winning. Opposite of the mamba mentality.
As for Suh, man am I with you. Wanted him bad enough I was screaming on this board like a crazed lunatic that the Bucs should do ANYTHING they had to do to switch picks to get him - but the Bucs decided to go with McCoy.What about the Ring of Honor? That loser Gruber is in it. How did he get there? He was responsible for leading an offense to nine straight losing seasons.Let me refresh your memory about Gruber. He's considered the greatest O-lineman in Bucs history pre-Wirfs. He's not blamed for being responsible for the losing culture on losing teams for almost an entire decade. That's because Barber and Sapp didn't play on that side of the ball.OK this is exactly what I'm talking about. This is ridiculous. You're saying that somehow by being the best defensive player on the team he somehow dragged down the rest of the team. It is nonsensical.\
Nobody denies his talent but the defense and leadership was bad because of him.
The second he left our defense improved.
I'm not asking you to go back and watch the game film, just use objectivity and common sense. You have a guy going to Probowls on a losing team. That doesn' t mean he's the one causing them to lose. They're losing because the other players and coaches suck. Look Barber and Sapp were on the Superbowl team. They see a losing team and they see that McCoy couldn't elevate them. Fair enough that he couldn't elevate the rest of the team, but he wasn't a bad player and he wasn't the reason they were bad. Come on.
Nobody cares about pro bowl.
Jameis Winston has as many as Lavonte.
Your argument completely ignores what we all saw during the McCoy (highest paid player on the team) era.
He has zero killer instinct. He's soft.
Suh was a similar talent (probably slightly better) but his killer mentality made him 10x the player.
He didn't want or need to be liked. He wanted QBs to fear him...
McCoy cared more about being liked than winning. Opposite of the mamba mentality.
I tried to like him as a player, I was hoping he could become Sapp-like - but in reality that wasn’t his game and it being picked by Tampa wasn’t his fault.
I felt vindicated when we brought him in and he was still spectacular.
Whereas Suh could fit in any scheme, McCoy’s personality/ability always made me think he would have been better suited as 3-4 DT rather than a 3 technique in a 4-3.
However, McCoy’s personality fits better in broadcasting. His takes are no less interesting, and he’s one of the few consistently pro-Buccaneer voices in sports media. Last I checked, we were kvetching about that in the lead up to this season.
McCoy just needed to lead with tenacity but instead he was worried about being liked
Professional athletes are often defined by their circumstances more than their performance. Bill Buckner and Kirk Gibson have very similar stats.
Bucs fans would probably be happy to have someone like Vea or Kancey be a 3 time all-pro with 60 sacks over 10 years. McCoy though is mostly judged by his personality because he followed Sapp and was not Suh.
I moved to the Tampa Bay area in 2010 right before the NFL season. The things are remember most about McCoy are the red hair and kimono. 😆
Professional athletes are often defined by their circumstances more than their performance. Bill Buckner and Kirk Gibson have very similar stats.
Bucs fans would probably be happy to have someone like Vea or Kancey be a 3 time all-pro with 60 sacks over 10 years. McCoy though is mostly judged by his personality because he followed Sapp and was not Suh.
You are missing the point big time. Booger McFarland showed more tenacity when the games were on the line than McCoy. Same with Brad Culpepper or Greg Spires when kicking on the inside. Rice came up big in the 4th quarter of games.
McCoy just simply doesn't get it and why he never was able to finish football games strong. The 4th quarter of football games define a lot of football players and McCoy just fell short because there was no one there to push him. And he wasn't motivated or a self starter himself.
